Originally posted by StyleTime
I'll address your two reasons for Vegeta's reluctance to destroy Namek before I proceed to my main point. Firstly, since you want to accept Arlia as being something more than filler, I guess I'll go ahead and use it. Vegeta clearly stands outside his spaceship when he fires his blast at Arlia. Saying he can't survive is rediculous as he already did. Heck, he even spoke while he was in space. Either you disregard Arlia and admit that the feat Vegeta gains here is rediculous, or you must accept that he breathes in space and would not refrain from destroying a planet because of it. Secondly, the dragon balls would be useless to Vegeta if he is dead. There is no logical reason why he would not blow up the planet to kill Frieza if his life was threatened....which it was.
I don't recall actually saying I accepted Arlia as canon- sure, I brought it up, but that was only in response to your saying that Vegeta wasn't
portrayed as planet-destroying. All the specifics of Arlia are worthless, it's only the general intent that's approximately in line with the actual canon.
Originally posted by StyleTime
As for my main point here, I brought that up in my last post to show how Vegeta is virtually always displayed at less than planet busting. Even if he didn't destroy the planet, the guy should have done far more collateral damage than he did. Again, these are life and death situations. Vegeta has no reason to hold back. If I may illustrate my meaning, I ask that you look at this Silver Surfer vs Morg picture. In it, Surfer and Morg destroy a planet as a side effect of their battle.
Was Surfer's goal to destroy the planet? No, but he couldn't help it. This isn't about Silver Surfer of course, but I am trying to illustrate a point. If you have even near planet destroying power and have to use it to defeat your foe, the planet will be destroyed or severely damaged whether you want it to or not. Even if Vegeta was holding back for whatever convenient reason you wish to offer him, he should still at least wreak some large scale havok in any of the situations I've mentioned. Why didn't he? He can't destroy the planet.
I disagree- all the Z fighters, but Vegeta in particular (Final Flash) are shown as having extraordinary control over their energy and bodies. Energy that goes into creating an enormous crater is energy that doesn't go into damaging your opponent, after all. So Surfer can't control attacks that precisely- I'm not surprised, he's not a martial artist. So it's not that Vegeta's holding back- on the contrary, he's focusing as much of his energy as possible on his opponent.
Originally posted by StyleTime
This would be fine, but again Arlia works against you here. Vegeta charged his planet busting attacking in less than two seconds. Time would most certainly not factor into his decision.
See above. This sort of inconsistency is exactly why Arlia would never be accepted as canon.
Originally posted by StyleTime
It is surprising actually. Again, the Arlia blast was like...2 seconds. There's not much difference between ki blasts other than the screaming of a name beforehand.
Again, see above. Further, how do you know he wasn't charging the Arlia blast in the ship?
Originally posted by StyleTime
I don't think he is that stupid either. Which is why self-destructed. He knew he could not blow up the planet. There is a scenario that satisfies both requirements AND is consistent with Vegeta's typical power output. He can't destroy the planet. He died the second he exploded. There is no control beyond that point. He was dead. If he had even half of his planet destroying power, he would gave caused global damage. As for Vegeta being stronger than Cell, this just goes back to what I said earlier. Power level in DBZ only means you can beat an opponent with a lower power level than you. It does not mean you can cause the same damage he or she can.
He's not an emo either. If he was actually incapable of destroying the planet, then blowing himself up would have obviously been pointless. But to actually destroy the planet would have been just as bad. The only way that he could possibly have hoped for victory is if he can focus all his power around Buu. Again, why is this unusual? All he's doing is focusing a ki sphere- just like his Big Bang attack, or Goku's Genki Dama.
Look, let's take a look at it from the same starting perspective. Hypothetically, let's say that Vegeta had exactly the amount of energy needed to destroy Buu, which would also be enough to destroy the planet if he directly blasted the planet.
Under what circumstances could he attack Buu? Only if he's confident that he can control his energy to hit only Buu, right? Regardless of how powerful he is, if he can't control his energy to hit Buu alone then he would never attack.
Originally posted by StyleTime
This is getting a little too philosophical for my tastes. There's no real way to test the whole self awareness theory and I honestly doubt the author gave much thought it. The problem here is that you assume that self awareness somehow makes the name any more "real." A child named John by his parents would still have the "real" name of John even if he was raised to believe his name was Alex. Were John's full name written in the death note, he would die without ever knowing his "real" name. Names are properties initially bestowed upon us by someone else. Going by the events of death note, it is implied that the birth name, or first name, you are given is the one needed to kill you. Furthermore, the owner of the note must have the face of the person he wishes to kill in mind, so the death note does not operate exclusively off of the self awareness of the intended victim. Self awareness doesn't appear to be requirement at all really.
That depends on whether you define "real" as "legal"...you're right, this is getting philosophical. If we keep this up I don't think we're actually going to get anywhere, so we may as well drop it.
Originally posted by StyleTime
Should he? Maybe. Again, the logic of the show prevents that.
This last bit I address earlier though. Not only did Cell never do that, but Vegeta does not gain that ability simply by being of a higher power level.
If we accept those as true, then yes, we could end the discussion here. Unfortunately, well you know I'm going to say.
I disagree- power levels are based on Ki, so it's the other way round- fighters of the same power level, using the same attack in the same way should have the same effect.
Whereas they won't necessarily win if their opponent is smarter than they are, has better attacks, or can regenerate from nothing.
So I would say that Vegeta with Final Flash should be able to destroy more than Cell with Kamehameha if he has a higher power level.
