Originally posted by King Kandy
actualy, your success has gone down...It wasn't to great in the "Here Comes Tommorow" based debate, it was terrific in the latest debates, and now it's starting to go down a bit.
Interesting, what debate has it gone down in?
btw,
just cause you don't agree with the "Here Comes Tomorrow" debate, doesn't mean it's gone down at all.
Originally posted by King Kandy
Okay, In MY opinion, that was your lowest point of success.Happy?
Better.
And that's cool you don't agree with me on that matter.
There have been a few discussions that have left me with an uneasiness, almost a doubt, but there are debates I have complete faith in, and when concerning the Phoenix, "Here Comes Tomorrow" happens to be one of them.
Originally posted by King Kandy
What are the discussions that left you uneasy?
An example would be,
At first my faith was shaken in the matter concerning whether or not Warlock spoke with the Multi-verse (Multi-Eternity) even though it was referred to by the title "Eternity"
Then I noticed that the term, "Eternity" has been used in the past and in the present as a defining term for the Multi-verse.
You yourself brought up a good point on the matter I realized after giving it some thought:
"Unlike ourselves our patience is not without limits"
This can be sensibly interpreted as, "We are unlimted, but our patience is not"
But the other line cannot be so easily explained away:
"We Exist in MYRIAD Fashions"
MYRIAD means: "a countless or extremely great number"
How can ONE Eternity/Universe exist in "countless numbers?"
It can not.
As you know, the only Countless Eternity, is Multi-Eternity:
"and where ONE ETERNITY would ensure a BOUNDLESS Universe, a MULTI-ETERNITY would ensure a BOUNDLESS MULTI-VERSE"
Also, another of their lines:
"We cannot be overly Preoccupied by ANY ONE ASPECT of OUR Reality"
The Eternity/Infinity of every Universe, is the Universal Aspect of Multi-Eternity (the Multi-verse)
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Why would that be?An Ig wielder has never destroyed the universe. A Phoenix avatar has. An avatar has also pulled off better feats. Also if the IG really does tap into the Big Bang which contnuity dictates is Phoenix, then surely its no contest? 😬
Why?
Well because I'm not going though 30 pages of argument...
Do you have any definite scans (not speculation, interpretations, or multiple in-comic "dialogue"😉 of Phoenix doing feats greater than Thanos did with the IG. I mean direct "power vs power" feats of Phoenix trashing other cosmic beings in a direct conflict. Like beating up Galactus, Death, Eternity, Love & Master hate, etc? Scans of any of this happening would clear alot up. I know Phoenix is "involved" in a lot of comic going-ons, but I've never seen Phoenix over power any of the major players in the Marvel Cosmic ladder besides Galactus (and he's become Marvel's Cosmic Jobber). I don't like ambiguous scans that are used to prove a character's power. Any "clear and obvious" scans of Phoenix's power would clear up Phoenix's power level to me.
Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet on the other hand took out everyone and everything short of Living Tribunal with the Infinity Gauntlet. I also believe he took a combined assault of the combined high-end Cosmic spectrum (Galactus, Love & hate, etc).
The infinity gems don't tap into the power of the big bang. They are the remnants (not full power) of the power of being who was lonely and committed suicide. (I don't believe "Nemesis" is considered canon in Marvel 616)
With regards to the universal destroying power of the IG, I believe in Warlock #1 Living Tribunal asked Warlock to remove the gauntlet willingly, otherwise the power wielded by both Living Tribunal and the Infinity Gauntlet would destroy multiple universes in a confrontation. Living Tribunal was stated that multiple universes would be Destroyed in confrontation between the two, before the Tribunal could remove the gauntlet.
Originally posted by Evangel94
Why?Well because I'm not going though 30 pages of argument...
Do you have any definite scans (not speculation, interpretations, or multiple in-comic "dialogue"😉 of Phoenix doing feats greater than Thanos did with the IG. I mean [b]direct
"power vs power" feats of Phoenix trashing other cosmic beings in a direct conflict. Like beating up Galactus, Death, Eternity, Love & Master hate, etc? Scans of any of this happening would clear alot up. I know Phoenix is "involved" in a lot of comic going-ons, but I've never seen Phoenix over power any of the major players in the Marvel Cosmic ladder besides Galactus (and he's become Marvel's Cosmic Jobber). I don't like ambiguous scans that are used to prove a character's power. Any "clear and obvious" scans of Phoenix's power would clear up Phoenix's power level to me.Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet on the other hand took out everyone and everything short of Living Tribunal with the Infinity Gauntlet. I also believe he took a combined assault of the combined high-end Cosmic spectrum (Galactus, Love & hate, etc).[/B]
Heres a reply i made to someone who said a very similar thing to what you just have. Please take the time out to read and comprehend it:
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
You havent read the thread have you? 😬You have just skimmed through it and saw theres a persisitent Phoenix side and decided to jump in with your two cents. 😉
While youre very entitled to do so, that kind of thing just makes the thread go in circles as if im nice i can repost part of my argument which deals with your post. However i could be a b*stard and tell you to read the thread as you should have done in the first place. 😄
Hmmmm 😖hifty:
Ok. You need to learn to distinguish between the concepts in their totality and the Mbodys they manifest as.
The sum of the universe, its totality is what said concepts derive from and are a part of. The universe is what they draw their power from.Said concepts are the totality of that concept in the universe. (Eternity is the timeline, Death is universal mortality etc) As they are the totality of said concepts they can NOT appear in their full forms within the universe in any one location because said concept would be absent everywhere else in the universe. Eternity is the totality of the universe, therefore he cannot appear as his totality within his totality. Death is universal mortality, so she cannot encompass her totality in a single form and appear within the universe or there would be no Death anywhere in the universe.
That is why theese concepts employ the use of MBodys which are their representation within the universe, their aspects within the universe that they are a fundamental part of. Said aspects are NOT their totality, they cannot be without the previously mentioned negative affects to reality. They are bestowed with a portion of their power.
That black star faced humanoid figure is Eternity, in its his representation in reality, but it is not him in full power. Same with other humanoid figures we know as the abstracts.
Thanos beat down these Mbodys with the IG.
Look what Eternity said to Adam with the IG about how he would fare if he manifested in his totality (something he would not do for the sake of reality)
The affect would be virtually non existent. He'd be able to battle and fare well.
Just to reiterate, said concepts in their [b]totality
are part of the structure of the universe, they tap into its power.Jean never fought with mere representations. Jean broke down the matter of the entire 616 universe down to its atoms and materialised it from outside the White Hot Room to within it, forming it intact within the palm of her hand.
That little glowing disc in her hand that she manipulated like putty is the 616 universe in its entirety. To be able to manipulate it down to its component parts and reform it intact she conclusively was tapping into more power than that contained within said universe. Those concepts are all just parts of that glowing disc, the entire universe she manipulated like putty. Thanos didnt even fight those concepts in their totalities, he fought their Mbodys. Their representations within the universe.
Jeans feat is leagues beyond Thanos'. That is conclusive. [/B]
Originally posted by Evangel94
The infinity gems don't tap into the power of the big bang. They are the remnants (not full power) of the power of being who was lonely and committed suicide. (I don't believe "Nemesis" is considered canon in Marvel 616)
As per current continuity yes they do. I have already posted the relevant scans just a few pages back and as such will not do so again. A retcon has been applied therefore your ideas about the IG are outdated in light of that. This is is the second and most recent of the retcons applied to the IG. The Ultraverse is now a part of the Marvel multiverse. The events of that crossover are referenced in the bios of the 616 characters featured in said bio. Check out the last bios of Sersi and Black Knight. The IG featured in said crossover was the one from 616.
Originally posted by Evangel94
With regards to the universal destroying power of the IG, I believe in Warlock #1 Living Tribunal asked Warlock to remove the gauntlet willingly, otherwise the power wielded by both Living Tribunal and the Infinity Gauntlet would destroy multiple universes in a confrontation. Living Tribunal was stated that multiple universes would be Destroyed in confrontation between the two, before the Tribunal could remove the gauntlet.
Nope. Your recollection is at fault. LT said just the 616 reality would be destroyed.
Given the fact that there two combatants involved and both of them demonstrably more powerful than the abstracts, that doesnt say alot for the IG. At least not as much as you were hoping.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Agreed.Correct.
But there was NOTHING LEFT behind, an EMPTY Vacuum was left.
The LAST panel shows the Watcher talking about the TWO Universes, 616 and the Alternate that just IMPLODED,
On the RIGHT Side: 616 has a "Cosmos" (Stars, Galaxies, Planets etc)
On the LEFT Side: the Alternate is,
a BLACK VOID SURROUNDING the Earth.
"Thus ENDS One continuum of Time and Space"Just like what Thanos left behind in the END Series when absorbed everything (a BLACK VOID)
"Nothing Remained"Or like when the Omniversal Tribune Erased the 238 Universe, they left behind a BLACK VOID:
That should end this debate right there.
if the omniversal tribune is able to erase an entire universe (238 for example) does that mean that they were able to kill a universal eternity? and based on the panel it wouldn't be just killing an m-body of eternity but rather killing the totality of a universal eternity.
Originally posted by bloodoverme
if the omniversal tribune is able to erase an entire universe (238 for example) does that mean that they were able to kill a universal eternity? and based on the panel it wouldn't be just killing an m-body of eternity but rather killing the totality of a universal eternity.
Originally posted by King Kandy
Well, there are multiple M-Body's of Eternity, so there could be Myraid ones of a universal eternity...
There is no evidence of multiple M-body's of Eternity.
We saw different 3 separate Timelines taking place within the Living Tribunal's Realm (the Dimension of Manifestations) that included 3 M-bodys of Eternity.
There are ONLY TWO Manifestations of Eternity during the ENTIRE issue of Quasar #37, This One:
When Warlock was on Trial, which took place in FEBRUARY 92' (Warlock & the Infinity Watch #1)
And this one:
Of the Comatose Eternity, which took place in June 92' (Infinity War #1)
HOW is this taking place at the same time, when these events are separated by 5 MONTHS and have NO relations whatsoever?
In FACT, the only correspondence of these TWO events with THIS issue of Quasar #37, is the Comatose Eternity coincidentally. (which is a Cross-Over of the Infinity War Arc)
And I might add, Warlock gave up the Infinity Gems WAY BEFORE Eternity was Comatose by Magus.
Quasar interrupted a TRIAL, that had already taken place.
The Third Eternity M-body appears in Quasar #38
And how are these events SUPPOSEDLY taking place simulataneously?
The event with the Beyonder meeting the Abstracts in Secret Wars, and the Trial of Warlock is still playing over and over within the Dimension of Manifestation.
No matter the logic, this is PIS to the umph degree, or just plain stupid.
One thing is to go back in time,
but because History is just repeating itself, those are simultaneous events taking place between Comatose Eternity and the others?
nah ... that's a cop-out, due to PIS.
It's not your fault, it's the complete PIS of the story attempting to jam down our throats this concept of M-bodys, with a scene that took place 22 Years ago May 1984
and yet, you want to believe it's happening simultaneously with the events of Infinity War which took place in June 1992, 8 Years later?
AND even more hilarious about this whole scene is that when the Cosmics came to the Beyonder they WEREN'T even in the Dimension of Manifestation,
they WERE in a RESTAURANT!
There're still CHAIRS and TABLES there 😆
HOW the heck did this turn into a Dimesion of Manifestation moment?
Oh silly PIS Writers of Quasar #37 & part of #38
