Originally posted by Mindset
Yea, this is at the dawn of all time, when Galan wasn't even Galactus, before he was even created...so.
Yes, the dawn of time would be immediately after the 'Big Bang,' which created the concept of space and time. It says 'dawn of time,' in the scan, never 'dawn of all time.' It even mentions an older universe possibly dying in the scan. Are you arguing just for the sake of it??
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Its stated in many a source that the Phoenix Forces energies are the Big Bang and that it also perpetuates the creation cycle.It is literally the Big Bang turned sentient.
Its manifestation within reality(the Firebird avatar) keeps the creation cycle revolving:
So no im not saying Phoenix created LT. Dont try and put words in our mouths. Im saying that its canon that the Phoenix Force is the Big Bang.
Originally posted by Mindset
GS if you had bothered to even look at the post I quoted you would have seen Enyalus said Phoenix created Eternity, which would mean Phoenix would have created all the cosmics included LT...
Never said PF created Eternity. I said without it, Eternity wouldn't exist. If there is no big bang to create the universe, how can there be an embodiment of the universe (Eternity)?
Originally posted by Enyalus
Yes, the dawn of time would be immediately after the 'Big Bang,' which created the concept of space and time. It says 'dawn of time,' in the scan, never 'dawn of [b]all time.' It even mentions an older universe possibly dying in the scan. Are you arguing just for the sake of it?? [/B]
No, it says was their an older universe, it doesn't say there was.
Seeing as this was the creation of LT, Eternity, etc. this was before any other being was created.
Unless you are saying this scan is wrong, and you are sticking with your view that Phoenix created Eternity, then she would have had to create the other cosmics including LT.
Originally posted by fangirl101
Big Bangs are funny things. They spark the creation of a universe. But universes grow and become far more powerful than the bang which sparked them.
the spark that created the fire is still a part of the fire, it's actually the main part of it as it is fed it grows it never goes out until said fire dies.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
You're right that Thanos never erased them. But he did become Eternity. Pretty impressive on it's own.I didn't agree with Mr Master about a lot of things, but I did agree that the scene in Here Comes Tomorrow has been subjected to vastly exaggerated interpretations. As for the statement by one of the Phoenixes to Jean, "Telekinetic control of all those atoms isn't easy. Not even for a Phoenix of the White Crown," I've heard you assert that he's referring to the complete universe's atoms.
Which to me doesn't make sense. I think it's very apparent that he was referring to her disinfection and removal of Sublime from the timestream. I think it's obvious because all that talk is immediately preceded by Jean telekinetically pulling Sublime out of Hank McCoy, holding him in her hands as that green glowly mass and then handing him/it over to the White Hot Room to complete the disinfection procedure.
The only time you actually see the universe, is a representation of it in her hands AFTER the disinfection. And yes, I think it's quite obviously a representation only, because you see an image of the Phoenix flare up out of it when Jean compels Scott to live on. If it was the actual universe, then the Phoenix would have wreaked havoc in it flaring around in it like that. 😂 Either way, you don't need to telekinetically control every atom of the universe to change the course of events when a simple mind-nudge does the same thing. But you do need expert telekinetic control to pull Sublime, an intelligent bacterial colony hiding inside of DNA, out of Beast and into the White Hot Room.
Anyway, my two cents.
If you'd bothered to read my previous posts in this thread, you'd see that the point that Phoenix manipulated the universese atoms is canon and Jeans powerset was updated to reflect this feat.
It is stated she can manipulate atomic structures on a universal scale.
Im not going to go into a breakdown of the White Hot Room scene, but if you wish to knoiw my interpretation of it then go check out the Phoenix Respect threads. Either way, my interpretation is supported officially.
Jean removed Sublime from reality, she telekinetically amputated that future, she then materialised the universe atom by atom within the "hospital" for treatment.
The Phoenix flare effect is Jean applying her power to the universe. She's reaching inside it and altering Scotts reaction to Emma.
Your raised points have been answered.
Thanks for your time.
Originally posted by fangirl101
Big Bangs are funny things. They spark the creation of a universe. But universes grow and become far more powerful than the bang which sparked them.
Nope.
Within Marvel, universes are closed systems. The Big Bang is the sum of all energy within a reality. Energy is transferred, but nothing new is created.
Originally posted by GalacticStormI see. So the Phoenix flaring up is a representation of the Phoenix's power upon the universe, but the universe isn't a representation? 😂 Please... As was posted before, Uatu holds a universe in his amulet. And since he doesn't have the benefit of a White Hot Room, I guess him and his superior, the High Tribunal Watcher, are even greater than Phoenix. 😆
If you'd bothered to read my previous posts in this thread, you'd see that the point that Phoenix manipulated the universese atoms is canon and Jeans powerset was updated to reflect this feat.It is stated she can manipulate atomic structures on a universal scale.
Im not going to go into a breakdown of the White Hot Room scene, but if you wish to knoiw my interpretation of it then go check out the Phoenix Respect threads. Either way, my interpretation is supported officially.
Jean removed Sublime from reality, she telekinetically amputated that future, she then materialised the universe atom by atom within the "hospital" for treatment.
The Phoenix flare effect is Jean applying her power to the universe. She's reaching inside it and altering Scotts reaction to Emma.
Your raised points have been answered.
Thanks for your time.
Removing Sublime from the universe does not require controlling every atom of the entire universe. Compelling Scott to live on does not require controlling every atom of the entire universe. You want to dismiss the simplest and clearest presentation of what occurs on-panel, contradict yourself and ignore how your logic actually ends up making Uatu > Phoenix, that's your cup of tea.
Originally posted by Mindset
And you were using this as proof Phoenix > Eternity?
This is what, the second or third time in this thread you've put words in my mouth. Stop. Either that, or show me where I said that Phoenix's power trumphs Eternity.
You have my opinion as to how this battle goes. It's not my fault if you choose to misunderstand your own scan, which clearly states that there could have been a universe before the current universe. If you read carefully, it says, quote, "At the dawn of time...when matter and energy exploded forth, creating OUR universe..."
Given that we know Galen was from the previous universe, and the scan is clearly referring to our current universe, it's safe to say that yes, there was another universe prior to this one, and that the scan is not talking about LT and the other cosmics initial creation.
Whatever else you have to say, don't. I've made my points. That's it.
Originally posted by fangirl101
Ok. so Pheonix has the power to tk control all the atoms in a universe? That is massive molecule power on a universal scale. But what about the other aspects. Mind? Soul? Reality altering. She can rearrange matter, but can she make something up mean that it's down? go to hell and beat the devil?
the tk thing overshadows the fact that Phoenix also has massive telepathic abilities. when she used tk to amputate the universe she also used telepathy to reach back in time to nudge Scott.
