Originally posted by OneDumbG0
It's an entire universe still. As was the baby orphan universe that Phoenix held in her hands, remember? So Uatu > Phoenix by your standards and interpretations, correct?
No, lol. And I was never even in on that particular argument. Though each of them were holding it in their hands, so even at the basest logic, Uatu = Phoenix, not Uatu > Phoenix. Plus, Uatu wasn't shown to manipulate anything in it. Though, granted, he's a watcher, so he shouldn't in the first place.
Uatu evidently states that Phoenix is second only to the creator. Someone else says that. I don't remember the panel, so...
Originally posted by guy222Marvel 1602 #8
What issue is that with Uatu
Originally posted by EnyalusAh... so Uatu = Phoenix now. Even though he contains this entire universe within his amulet... and upon closer inspection... he may actually be containing it within his heart. Something Phoenix never did. So yes, Uatu > Phoenix then, yes?
No, lol. And I was never even in on that particular argument. Though each of them were holding it in their hands, so even at the basest logic, Uatu = Phoenix, not Uatu > Phoenix. Plus, Uatu wasn't shown to manipulate anything in it. Though, granted, he's a watcher, so he shouldn't in the first place.Uatu evidently states that Phoenix is second only to the creator. Someone else says that. I don't remember the panel, so...
Well either way... your cosmic hierarchy is:
Living Tribunal
Rulk
Uatu - Phoenix
Eternity
etc.
I see. Long live Rulk! durfist
Actually members need to discern truth from opinions. Uatuh holds a tiny universe, while Phoenix held an orphan universe since it was plucked from its parent the Megasystems. No reference to the universe being held by Phoenix as baby.
Originally posted by Takion
I love how you post out of no where. ahah
I just got back from work.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I see. So the Phoenix flaring up is a representation of the Phoenix's power upon the universe, but the universe isn't a representation? 😂 Please... As was posted before, Uatu holds a universe in his amulet. And since he doesn't have the benefit of a White Hot Room, I guess him and his superior, the High Tribunal Watcher, are even greater than Phoenix. 😆
Hmmm. The Phoenix Firebird is known to flare up whenever a Phoenix uses its power. Be it around the hosts body or over an eye.
Jean reached into the universe and altered Scotts reaction. In applying her power to reality, the point was represented to us readers with the familiar firebird effect. Why does Phoenixes energy signature represented as it always has been mean that the universe has to be a representation? 😕
Youre on your own on that one.
Furthermore if you knew anything about 1602 as opposed to just casually glancing over out of context scans, you'd see that the point of divergence that lead to that alternate timeline was being corrected so the Watchers captured the disconnected piece of timeline in a pocket dimension.
Just like Franklin Richards had his own pocket dimension in the form of a ball.
Phoenix however amputated a timeline herself, before materialising 616 within the White Hot Room for treatment and the feat was attributed on panel and within her bio to her telekinesis. Your contrary opinion in light of that is irrelevant.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Removing Sublime from the universe does not require controlling every atom of the entire universe. Compelling Scott to live on does not require controlling every atom of the entire universe. You want to dismiss the simplest and clearest presentation of what occurs on-panel, contradict yourself and ignore how your logic actually ends up making Uatu > Phoenix, that's your cup of tea.
You're waffling on because you have not bothered to analyse the scene for yourself. You've scanned over bits and pieces of past arguments leaving you with a very disjointed picture.
The telekinetic control of all atoms in the universe was required to materialise the universe into the "hospital" (WHR) where it could be treated by altering Scotts reaction, thereby growing a new future to close off the wound Phoenix inflicted on reality, by telekinetically amputating Here Comes Tomorrow from 616.
Visit the Respect Thread.
That will be all.
Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
Have they been mentioned in the arc? Uatu has.
you suggested that Uatu should have known about something because he is the watcher, i retorted by saying that dudes who are in possession of the gems (soul, time and mind) had no way of knowing about the Hulks return. I still don't know what point you're trying to make.
Originally posted by id369
Actually members need to discern truth from opinions. Uatuh holds a tiny universe, while Phoenix held an orphan universe since it was plucked from its parent the Megasystems. No reference to the universe being held by Phoenix as baby.I just got back from work.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
It's an entire universe still. As was the baby orphan universe that Phoenix held in her hands, remember? So Uatu > Phoenix by your standards and interpretations, correct? After all, the High Tribunal Watcher held and handed it over effortlessly and Uatu holds it effortlessly in his hands and actually contains it within his amulet. A feat of astronomic proportions without the need of a White Hot Room.
Rubbish. It was a fragmented timeline that was on the verge of being wiped out of existence because the point of divergence that had spawned it was changed. Think of it as a branch from the main tree that is 616.
Phoenix dealt with the tree.
Originally posted by GalacticStormNo. Marvel's secondary sources confirm that extracting Sublime's atoms from Beast telekinetically resulted in the entire future reality being disinfected. If you also read further, it says that she symbolically watered it with her heart's blood. Nothing says that she telekinetically controlled all the atoms in the universe to accomplish either Sublime's disinfection or Scott's mind-nudge:
Hmmm. The Phoenix Firebird is known to flare up whenever a Phoenix uses its power. Be it around the hosts body or over an eye.Jean reached into the universe and altered Scotts reaction. In applying her power to reality, the point was represented to us readers with the familiar firebird effect. Why does Phoenixes energy signature represented as it always has been mean that the universe has to be a representation? 😕
Youre on your own on that one.
Fact is, you have to contradict yourself that within her hands is an actuality of a universe and a representation of a phoenix, when it's much easier to read it as a representation of both the universe and phoenix because it was her symbolic watering of it:
Originally posted by GalacticStormShe amputated Sublime and as a result, amputated the entire future. Which is similar to the way Legion went back in time, killed Xavier and ended up crystalizing the entire future until time righted itself. Neither of which requires telekinetic control of the atoms of the entire universe. And why you're mentioning Franklin Richards is beyond me. Yes, Franklin Richards can actually create an entire universe with his mind. Phoenix, at best, held an existing one in her hands (well according to you). Uatu also held one in his hands and keeps it in his heart.
Furthermore if you knew anything about 1602 as opposed to just casually glancing over out of context scans, you'd see that the point of divergence that lead to that alternate timeline was being corrected so the Watchers captured the disconnected piece of timeline in a pocket dimension.Just like Franklin Richards had his own pocket dimension in the form of a ball.
Phoenix however amputated a timeline herself, before materialising 616 within the White Hot Room for treatment and the feat was attributed on panel and within her bio to her telekinesis. Your contrary opinion in light of that is irrelevant.
Originally posted by GalacticStormI've read all the pertinent storylines. The only time I even thought to think that the small universe depicted in her hands was the entire actual universe was while reading that exaggerated account here on KMC. Seriously, Franklin Richards > Uatu > Phoenix according to you. Richards created an entire universe. Uatu holds and transfers an entire universe into his heart. Phoenix pulls an already existing wounded universe into the White Hot Room. If you seriously want to base your cosmic hierarchy on feats of astronomical proportions, then apply it across the board. Not just selectively according to your personal motivations.
You're waffling on because you have not bothered to analyse the scene for yourself. You've scanned over bits and pieces of past arguments leaving you with a very disjointed picture.The telekinetic control of all atoms in the universe was required to materialise the universe into the "hospital" (WHR) where it could be treated by altering Scotts reaction, thereby growing a new future to close off the wound Phoenix inflicted on reality, by telekinetically amputating Here Comes Tomorrow from 616.
Visit the Respect Thread.
That will be all.
Originally posted by Takion
Well King Candy was looking for you in the Delph tourney.
I promptly responded to his PMS. I hope I can get this tourney going.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
If it was actually the universe, then it must have been seriously messed up when a Phoenix flared up in it:😂
Apparently not, since damage is not acknowledged anywhere in the comic or any bio for that matter.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
You're right that Thanos never erased them. But he did become Eternity. Pretty impressive on it's own.I didn't agree with Mr Master about a lot of things, but I did agree that the scene in Here Comes Tomorrow has been subjected to vastly exaggerated interpretations. As for the statement by one of the Phoenixes to Jean, "Telekinetic control of all those atoms isn't easy. Not even for a Phoenix of the White Crown," I've heard you assert that he's referring to the complete universe's atoms.
The comic states she is holding a universe in her hands. Why would anyone misinterpret or add on what is clearly stated in the comic?
Originally posted by OneDumbG0Which to me doesn't make sense. I think it's very apparent that he was referring to her disinfection and removal of Sublime from the timestream. I think it's obvious because all that talk is immediately preceded by Jean telekinetically pulling Sublime out of Hank McCoy, holding him in her hands as that green glowly mass and then handing him/it over to the White Hot Room to complete the disinfection procedure.
Sublime essensence did not just reside within Hank alone. Jean acknowledges what she is holding in her hands, “The Entire Future” amputated from the timeline.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0The only time you actually see the universe, is a representation of it in her hands AFTER the disinfection. And yes, I think it's quite obviously a representation only, because you see an image of the Phoenix flare up out of it when Jean compels Scott to live on. If it was the actual universe, then the Phoenix would have wreaked havoc in it flaring around in it like that. 😂 Either way, you don't need to telekinetically control every atom of the universe to change the course of events when a simple mind-nudge does the same thing. But you do need expert telekinetic control to pull Sublime, an intelligent bacterial colony hiding inside of DNA, out of Beast and into the White Hot Room.
Anyway, my two cents.
What she initially held, was the current now “HCT” with no past or future. The comic then proceeds to show, Jean materialize the entire universe, in order to prevent HCT from ever happening.
Weather you think if a comic should do “A” or “B”, is besides the point. We follow what we read, and stated in the comic. Not an expressed opinion, unless you happen to be the vary author that wrote such comic.
Originally posted by GalacticStormNo, Phoenix dealt with an alternate universe, Earth-15104:
Rubbish. It was a fragmented timeline that was on the verge of being wiped out of existence because the point of divergence that had spawned it was changed. Think of it as a branch from the main tree that is 616.Phoenix dealt with the tree.
Just as Uatu dealt with Earth-311:
