Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Escape, what makes you think the 3 combatants are going to just stand around waiting for a force storm? Either way Sidious wins, with or without the force storm.
A Force Storm takes a few seconds to conjure. Especially, given that this is DE Palpatine, what the hell makes you think that they could get to him and kill him in time?
Answer: they couldn't.
Even in his RotS incarnation, it'd take a little while to kill Palpatine. Not three seconds.
Originally posted by Escape81
A Force Storm takes a few seconds to conjure. Especially, given that this is DE Palpatine, what the [B]hell makes you think that they could get to him and kill him in time?Answer: they couldn't.
Even in his RotS incarnation, it'd take a little while to kill Palpatine. Not three seconds. [/B]
You seem to think that the only way to stop Sidious' force storm is to kill him in those several seconds it takes for him to summon one. This is not so, all it would take is for them to disrupt the ritual; he cant conjure one up while being attacked at the same time.
Originally posted by Escape81
A Force Storm takes a few seconds to conjure. Especially, given that this is DE Palpatine, what the [B]hell makes you think that they could get to him and kill him in time?Answer: they couldn't.
Even in his RotS incarnation, it'd take a little while to kill Palpatine. Not three seconds. [/B]
Well like I said, Sidious wins with or without the force storm. However, I didn't read the location of the fight. If it's in an open area, Sidious unleashes the force storm. However, if it's in an enclosed area, I don't think he could get it off in time, or if he does I don't think he would escape it.
Originally posted by Kas'Im
You seem to think that the [b]only way to stop Sidious' force storm is to kill him in those several seconds it takes for him to summon one. This is not so, all it would take is for them to disrupt the ritual; he cant conjure one up while being attacked at the same time. [/B]
It takes him only a few seconds. These three couldn't face and defeat the most powerful Sith Lord, regardless of his Force Storm or not.
Originally posted by Escape81
It takes him [B]only a few seconds.[/B]
I simple force push would disrupt the attack. Any one of these three jedi would be able to pull it off in a heartbeat.
These three couldn't face and defeat the most powerful Sith Lord, regardless of his Force Storm or not.
Oh I know, I just don't agree with your reasoning. He can't just pull off a force storm right away in this kind of battle, he doesn't have the time to do it, and I'm pretty sure he wouldn't be able to control it in the situation.
A Smaller scale would make it easier to control. Seeing as though he cant Completely control a fleet destroying Storm (by his own admission), but he can control it to an extent, then the smaller the Force Storm the easier it would be to manipulate.
I'm not talking about how big the force storm is, that's pretty irrelavent, all I'm saying is that there's no proof that he'd be able to control such a devastating attack on such a small scale - against 3 individuals, in a pretty small area, I don't see how he'd be able to control it on such a small scale without harming himself, not to mention the fact that the room in the jedi temple is closed, not open so he wouldn't be able to pull one off without destroying the room anyways.
I simple force push would disrupt the attack. Any one of these three jedi would be able to pull it off in a heartbeat.
I'm glad to know that you're suddenly an expert on Dark Empire and what exactly can disrupt Palpatine's ability to summon Force Storms. Did you get this information from the same place where Sirak knew Vaapad, Bane and Revan could flow walk, and Occulumency doesn't require any magical ability?
Please. Once again, don't throw your half-assed, unsupported assumptions around and expect them to factor in at all. All Sidious does is concentrate his anger, and then, let loose.
If any of their Force pushes effect him (considering the vast power gap between them), it'll likely only knock him back a little. Which just would likely make him more pissed off.
Then the Force Storm just intensifies.
Oh I know, I just don't agree with your reasoning. He can't just pull off a force storm right away in this kind of battle, he doesn't have the time to do it, and I'm pretty sure he wouldn't be able to control it in the situation.
I'm sure you don't agree with my reasoning. But that doesn't change the validity of it.
Don't tell me what he can and cannot do. He summoned a Force Storm whenever the hell he felt like it.
Guess what, Mr. Dark Empire Expert? Palpatine summoned a Force Storm to kill Luke and Leia, when he was in the same room with them, and he was unarmed - right after their duel.
So, let's see. A saberless, armless Palpatine has no problem causing a Force Storm, when he's in the same room with his opponents - who are armed.
There just went your argument.
I'm not talking about how big the force storm is, that's pretty irrelavent, all I'm saying is that there's no proof that he'd be able to control such a devastating attack on such a small scale - against 3 individuals, in a pretty small area, I don't see how he'd be able to control it on such a small scale without harming himself, not to mention the fact that the room in the jedi temple is closed, not open so he wouldn't be able to pull one off without destroying the room anyways.
You seem to make the bastard come out in me, lol.
See the above: Palpatine had no problem creating a Force Storm when he was without his lightsaber (and his hand), as well as being in the same room as the people he planned to use it on.
Bottom line:
Palpatine's Force lightning is capable of mortally wounding any person it hits. That alone would put either of them down. But, we'll play the cynic route. It immediately shunts Vader out of the fight. His life support systems can't handle that kind of power. It'd likely either kill or mortally wound Dooku or Maul.
Then, a Force Storm comes, and they die.
Or, hell, he just skips to the Force Storm and kills them in one deft move.
Creating a force storm in a room is the most stupid thing palpatine would do, why? because firstly it takes a few seconds to summon the storm and there are 3 sith lords, That leaves palpatine open to be attacked, from either force crush, or force lightning which would wound if not kill palpatine,
The best thing for palpatine to do is to use lightning, no chance insaber combat due to 3 great lightsaber duelists taking on him, honestly sidious can win them on a 1v1 but not on a 3 on1.
Since his lightning is super dangerous then he can fry vader easy but dont forget vader has the lightsaber to block the lightning and while sidious is doing lightning on vader, again it leaves himopen to count dooku and darth maul,
no way for even for one of the strongest sith lords can take on 3 powerful sith lords at once, and if this environment suits vader, then vaders trio has the advantage due to vader pulling suprise attacks with his surroundings,
Creating a force storm in a room is the most stupid thing palpatine would do, why? because firstly it takes a few seconds to summon the storm and there are 3 sith lords, That leaves palpatine open to be attacked, from either force crush, or force lightning which would wound if not kill palpatine,
Did you not read what I just typed?
1) Palpatine CAN create a Force Storm in the same room, and he was comfortable enough to do it in front of Luke (who just defeated him and was still armed) - before Luke could do a damn thing to stop him.
2) You're forgetting one thing, my friend. Palpatine taught each of these guys. He knows more than they do. He's got more power than they do.
3) They are not gonna mortally wound him with any of their Force attacks.
The best thing for palpatine to do is to use lightning, no chance insaber combat due to 3 great lightsaber duelists taking on him, honestly sidious can win them on a 1v1 but not on a 3 on1.
He can move faster than the eye can see. That's more than what these guys have. He'd likely kill them all pretty easily by utilizing his speed.
Since his lightning is super dangerous then he can fry vader easy but dont forget vader has the lightsaber to block the lightning and while sidious is doing lightning on vader, again it leaves himopen to count dooku and darth maul,
Just a problem:
Palpatine's lightning compared to the RotJ days are a lot stronger. And, remember, Vader got killed by Palpatine when he was half distracted by torturing Luke.
Palpatine can kill Jedi with blasts of energy. Vader's suit makes him vulnerable. He's likely the first to die.
no way for even for one of the strongest sith lords can take on 3 powerful sith lords at once, and if this environment suits vader, then vaders trio has the advantage due to vader pulling suprise attacks with his surroundings,
Sidious slaughters them.
Originally posted by Escape81
[B]Did you not read what I just typed?1) Palpatine CAN create a Force Storm in the same room, and he was comfortable enough to do it in front of Luke (who just defeated him and was still armed) - before Luke could do a damn thing to stop him.
2) You're forgetting one thing, my friend. Palpatine taught each of these guys. He knows more than they do. He's got more power than they do.
3) They are not gonna mortally wound him with any of their Force attacks.
[/B]
you seem to forget creating a force storm takes 2 to 3 seconds and it leaves him open
Secondly yes palpatine taught them, but did palpatine teach vader to use his sorroundings? hell no, even in RODV palpatine didnt do sh!t to train vader has he trained maul, vader learnt all that through himself, palpatine was there to make him stronger.
thirdly a force crush will kill any one, The only people who can defend against this ability are people like Luke, Kyp, Jacen and Kyle katarn who can create a shield, palpatine is a dark side master, he cares nothing about learning the lightside techniques, Force crush immobalises you, even if it doesnt kill palpatine again there is count dooku and maul to kill palpatine when he is immobalised by the crush
Originally posted by Escape81did the book even state what form he has used? you got that from the DE source book didnt you, guess what, you cant use rpg stat books as reference since they themselves are a debate, and secondly palpatines skills has got rusty since rotj after being a spirit for a couple of years without practising.He can move faster than the eye can see. That's more than what these guys have. He'd likely kill them all pretty easily by utilizing his speed.
[/B]
Originally posted by Escape81Are you forgetting vader knows how to block lighting with the lightsaber? Again i will say that leaves him open to count dooku and maul to finish palpatine
Palpatine's lightning compared to the RotJ days are a lot stronger. And, remember, Vader got killed by Palpatine when he was half distracted by torturing Luke.Palpatine can kill Jedi with blasts of energy. Vader's suit makes him vulnerable. He's likely the first to die.
[/B]
Originally posted by Escape81
Sidious slaughters them. [/B]
Under these cirumstances, sidious gets slaughtered
I'm glad to know that you're suddenly an expert on Dark Empire and what exactly can disrupt Palpatine's ability to summon Force Storms. Did you get this information from the same place where Sirak knew Vaapad, Bane and Revan could flow walk, and Occulumency doesn't require any magical ability?
lmao, Sirak was stated to know Vaapad in PoD, I never said Revan or Bane could flow walk, just that when you consider the possibilities with the force, it's certainly possible that Sirak might have known Vaapad.
And Occlumency doesn't require any innate magical ability, I thought we had already resolved this. If you want, we can continue it.
Please. Once again, don't throw your half-assed, unsupported assumptions around and expect them to factor in at all. All Sidious does is concentrate his anger, and then, let loose.
Ever heard of a thing called common sense? How the hell is Palpatine going to complete the several second ritual of a force storm if one of these force users just disrupt his concentration, which any of them can do in a heartbeat.
You are the one making the 'half-assed, unsupported assumptions'; you are effectively saying that Sidious possesses enough control to be able to complete the ritual of a force storm while being attacked at the same time. That's bs.
BTW you have no proof whatsoever how long it took for him to create the storm, comics are still media so how much time passes between panels is up for interpretation. It most likely took about ten seconds, he would have likely started it shortly after their duel ended, and there seems to be at least ten seconds passed through by that time, what with Luke's mini speech and Palpatine taunting Luke and explaining how he has a contingency plan and whatnot. Ten seconds seems far more reasonable then 'a few', however at least I can accept that it's an assumption, you're just trying to pass off your opinion as fact, so don't talk about half-assed assumptions with me sonny Jim.
If any of their Force pushes effect him (considering the vast power gap between them), it'll likely only knock him back a little. Which just would likely make him more pissed off.
More likely, he would be pushed back by quite a bit, considering he is focusing on the force storm. He would either have to stop the ritual to defend himself, or let himself be attacked and thus lose concentration. Either way, he ain't gonna be able to pull one off.
And he's not exactly that much more powerful than Dooku or Vader (Vader himself was stated to be 80% of Sidious), just possesses more knowledge of the dark side.
Then the Force Storm just intensifies.
How about no.
I'm sure you don't agree with my reasoning. But that doesn't change the validity of it.
Actually it does change the validity of it, as I've effectively mooted every point in your favour, he wouldn't be able to employ a force storm in a battle like this, you're wrong, just accept it.
Don't tell me what he can and cannot do. He summoned a Force Storm whenever the hell he felt like it.
That's strange, I didn't catch him summoning one more than three times, but sure, if you say that he did it whenever he wanted, it must be true, correct?
Guess what, Mr. Dark Empire Expert? Palpatine summoned a Force Storm to kill Luke and Leia, when he was in the same room with them, and he was unarmed - right after their duel.
Bullshit. Quit lying Escape, it's not my fault you're a fanboy.
There's nothing to suggest that he was trying to kill Luke or Leia with the force storm.
"Look below... Look what is happening to your pitiful moon"
"He's destroying the whole fleet. Thousands of warriors are dying"
"My force storm is reducing your rebel fleet to dust. All of your friends will die"
There's absolutely no evidence to suggest that he was attempting to use it on Luke or Leia, nothing.
So, let's see. A saberless, armless Palpatine has no problem causing a Force Storm, when he's in the same room with his opponents - who are armed.
He didn't plan on using it on Luke or Leia, so this point is moot.
There just went your argument.
Actually I think you'll find that it's your argument that just got destroyed, so unlucky about that.
You seem to make the bastard come out in me, lol.
Hold up, I thought that it was Zephiel who makes the bastard come out of you, or wait, wasn't it San'Doria, or Admiral Ackbar, or sith'ari, or anyone at EoD? It seems like you're just a bastard period. 😉
See the above: Palpatine had no problem creating a Force Storm when he was without his lightsaber (and his hand), as well as being in the same room as the people he planned to use it on.
He didn't plan on using it on Luke or Leia, so this point is moot.
Originally posted by Kas'Im
lmao, Sirak was stated to know Vaapad in PoD, I never said Revan or Bane could flow walk, just that when you consider the possibilities with the force, it's certainly possible that Sirak might have known Vaapad.And Occlumency [b]doesn't
require any innate magical ability, I thought we had already resolved this. If you want, we can continue it.Ever heard of a thing called common sense? How the hell is Palpatine going to complete the several second ritual of a force storm if one of these force users just disrupt his concentration, which any of them can do in a heartbeat.
You are the one making the 'half-assed, unsupported assumptions'; you are effectively saying that Sidious possesses enough control to be able to complete the ritual of a force storm while being attacked at the same time. That's bs.
BTW you have no proof whatsoever how long it took for him to create the storm, comics are still media so how much time passes between panels is up for interpretation. It most likely took about ten seconds, he would have likely started it shortly after their duel ended, and there seems to be at least ten seconds passed through by that time, what with Luke's mini speech and Palpatine taunting Luke and explaining how he has a contingency plan and whatnot. Ten seconds seems far more reasonable then 'a few', however at least I can accept that it's an assumption, you're just trying to pass off your opinion as fact, so don't talk about half-assed assumptions with me sonny Jim.
More likely, he would be pushed back by quite a bit, considering he is focusing on the force storm. He would either have to stop the ritual to defend himself, or let himself be attacked and thus lose concentration. Either way, he ain't gonna be able to pull one off.
And he's not exactly that much more powerful than Dooku or Vader (Vader himself was stated to be 80% of Sidious), just possesses more knowledge of the dark side.How about no.
Actually it does change the validity of it, as I've effectively mooted every point in your favour, he wouldn't be able to employ a force storm in a battle like this, you're wrong, just accept it.
That's strange, I didn't catch him summoning one more than three times, but sure, if you say that he did it whenever he wanted, it must be true, correct?
Bullshit. Quit lying Escape, it's not my fault you're a fanboy.
There's nothing to suggest that he was trying to kill Luke or Leia with the force storm.
"Look below... Look what is happening to your pitiful moon"
"He's destroying the whole fleet. Thousands of warriors are dying"
"My force storm is reducing your rebel fleet to dust. All of your friends will die"There's absolutely no evidence to suggest that he was attempting to use it on Luke or Leia, nothing.
He didn't plan on using it on Luke or Leia, so this point is moot.
Actually I think you'll find that it's your argument that just got destroyed, so unlucky about that.
Hold up, I thought that it was Zephiel who makes the bastard come out of you, or wait, wasn't it San'Doria, or Admiral Ackbar, or sith'ari, or anyone at EoD? It seems like you're just a bastard period. 😉
He didn't plan on using it on Luke or Leia, so this point is moot. [/B]
very good one sir kasim
PWNED
Originally posted by Kas'Im
lmao, Sirak was stated to know Vaapad in PoD, I never said Revan or Bane could flow walk, just that when you consider the possibilities with the force, it's certainly possible that Sirak might have known Vaapad.
Ever heard of a thing called common sense? How the hell is Palpatine going to complete the several second ritual of a force storm if one of these force users just disrupt his concentration, which any of them can do in a heartbeat.
You are the one making the 'half-assed, unsupported assumptions'; you are effectively saying that Sidious possesses enough control to be able to complete the ritual of a force storm while being attacked at the same time. That's bs.
BTW you have no proof whatsoever how long it took for him to create the storm, comics are still media so how much time passes between panels is up for interpretation. It most likely took about ten seconds, he would have likely started it shortly after their duel ended, and there seems to be at least ten seconds passed through by that time, what with Luke's mini speech and Palpatine taunting Luke and explaining how he has a contingency plan and whatnot. Ten seconds seems far more reasonable then 'a few', however at least I can accept that it's an assumption, you're just trying to pass off your opinion as fact, so don't talk about half-assed assumptions with me sonny Jim.
More likely, he would be pushed back by quite a bit, considering he is focusing on the force storm. He would either have to stop the ritual to defend himself, or let himself be attacked and thus lose concentration. Either way, he ain't gonna be able to pull one off.
And he's not exactly that much more powerful than Dooku or Vader (Vader himself was stated to be 80% of Sidious), just possesses more knowledge of the dark side.
There's nothing to suggest that he was trying to kill Luke or Leia with the force storm.
He didn't plan on using it on Luke or Leia, so this point is moot.