Maul, Dooku, Vader vs Sidious

Didn't Lucas say after ROTJ the Sith are destroyed and NEVER return?

Continuity.

In 1983 when RotJ was completed, Lucas did not have the term "Sith". The Emperor and Darth Vader were just Dark Side users who opposed the Jedi.

The prophecy was non-existent.

In 1990-something, Dark Empire came out and resurrected the Emperor - and George Lucas praised the comic, and said that it was the closest thing to a "sequel" of Star Wars (he and I disagree).

In 1998, he began to map together the back story. The prophecy was born. The Sith was born.

Unfortunately, by that time, too many comics/works had used the Sith and Dark Side Force users, which made Anakin's struggle somewhat in vain - though he did technically destroy the most effective Sith and ended their greatest reign.

Doesn't that blow the whole EU "Sidious returns uber-powerful" stuff out the window?

Ogami, this, unfortunately, makes no sense. Sidious did return, uber-powerful, and far stronger than he was in the movies. I dislike DE, and all other 'superpowerful characters', but this just isn't the case.

1 question, where was it stated that Sidious knew all previously known darkside techniques, and that he invented some of his own.

DE or DE Sourcebook or DSB

Its just that I was reading the DE Sourcebook, and all it says is "It is believed that he has mastered nearly all the known powers, previously unknown powers, and devises new ones at his pleasure".

Originally posted by Kas'Im
Its just that I was reading the DE Sourcebook, and all it says is "[b]It is believed that he has mastered nearly all the known powers, previously unknown powers, and devises new ones at his pleasure". [/B]

It is still said by the omniscient narrator - which means that it is a canon fact. That he knows "previously unknown powers" and "invents new ones" means that his knowledge base is considerably larger compared to any other Sith Lord.

From the beginning of the Original Trilogy, Special Edition. Interview with George Lucas.

"......Which brings us up to films IV, V and VI, in which Anakin's offspring redeem him, and allow him to fulfill the prophesy, where he brings balance to the Force by doing away with the Sith and get rid of evil in the universe"

hhmmmm it seems if DE is canon and Sidious does return it really cheapens Anakins whole struggle!

Obi wan should have said this in ROTS:

With all due respect, Master, is he not the Chosen One? Is he not to destroy the Sith for 10 years and bring balance to the Force?

Originally posted by Ogami Itto
From the beginning of the Original Trilogy, Special Edition. Interview with George Lucas.

"......Which brings us up to films IV, V and VI, in which Anakin's offspring redeem him, and allow him to fulfill the prophesy, where he brings balance to the Force by doing away with the Sith and get rid of evil in the universe"

hhmmmm it seems if DE is canon and Sidious does return it really cheapens Anakins whole struggle!

Obi wan should have said this in ROTS:

With all due respect, Master, is he not the Chosen One? Is he not to destroy the Sith for 10 years and bring balance to the Force?

I mean if you really think about it, he DOES destroy the sith. Sure Sidious comes back but it's just him. There are no more sith, no more apprentices, no more Bane's order. Unless of course you'd like to consider Han Solo as the chosen one?

"And now, my young apprentice... Your father is dead. Have you come to join me? Will you take the place that rightfully belongs to you–at my side." -Palpatine

Hmmm sounds like he's still holding the Sith ideals!! Also he consults with Ancient Sith on Korriban

Don't think they would be too happy if he abandoned their teachings

Originally posted by Escape81
It is still said by the omniscient narrator - which means that it is a canon fact. That he knows "previously unknown powers" and "invents new ones" means that his knowledge base is considerably larger compared to any other Sith Lord.

"It is believed"

Originally posted by Ogami Itto
"And now, my young apprentice... Your father is dead. Have you come to join me? Will you take the place that rightfully belongs to you–at my side." -Palpatine

Hmmm sounds like he's still holding the Sith ideals!! Also he consults with Ancient Sith on Korriban

Don't think they would be too happy if he abandoned their teachings

First of all he's consulted the ancients since he summoned them back.. He's been to Korriban as a youth. Him trying to train Luke has absolutely nothing to do with the rule of two, it just means he wanted him to take his father's place all along. Anakin DID destroy the sith and he DID restore balance to the force. When Palpatine died his first death there was to be no more rule of two, no more sith legacy, because Palpatine wanted to live forever, as energy.

It seems to me that Ogami is suffering from the same deficiency that San'Doria is plagued with. Ogami, pay attention.

Dark Empire is canon. When the series came out, the Prophecy wasn't even formed. Lucas has been known to contradict himself, though he is the highest level of canon. Yes, I agree. It cheapens Anakin's struggle and sacrifice, but that doesn't change its canon status.

So, it is canon. You're going to have to accept that.

@Kas'Im:

"It is believed"

I'm going to start calling you Kas'Im, Man Who Argues Semantics. Lol.

Your skills as a debator notwithstanding, this isn't a good point. The omniscient narrator has confirmed that Sidious knows nearly all of the abilities. I would also consult the tNEC, the Dark Side Sourcebook, and the Dark Empire Sourcebook for further information.

Knowing nearly all of the Dark Side techniques + All the previously unknown ones + New ones he invents = more knowledge than any other Sith Lord.

Once again, my friend, Palpatine = the most powerful and knowledgable of the Sith Lords.

So Sidious is NOT a Dark Lord of the Sith in Dark Empire?

Ok but anyways Lucas says Anakin destroyed the Sith in ROTJ so Sidious (The Sith) is DESTROYED i.e. cant come back

It is my belief that DE is NOT Canon, it is a "what if" scenario(c-canon?)
henceforth, can't be used to backup the current debate about Sidious's uberpowers .

So Sidious is NOT a Dark Lord of the Sith in Dark Empire?

Dude, why don't you READ?

1) DE Palpatine is a clone (!). As Lumiya explains in Legacy of the Force, she didn't consider Palpatine's clone to be a true Sith like his original self.

2) Dark Empire is still considered canon.

Ok but anyways Lucas says Anakin destroyed the Sith in ROTJ so Sidious (The Sith) is DESTROYED i.e. cant come back

Unfortunately with the Sith - they aren't an object that can be broken and never repaired. Lumiya is the current Dark Lady of the Sith, and isn't really a true Sith - but she was taught Sith teachings by Palpatine and Vader, and is just a self-proclaimed Sith.

It is my belief that DE is NOT Canon, it is a "what if" scenario(c-canon?)
henceforth, can't be used to backup the current debate about Sidious's uberpowers .

Sorry. That's not how it works. No one gives a damn what your belief is. Sidious's uberpowers still apply.

Originally posted by Ogami Itto
So Sidious is NOT a Dark Lord of the Sith in Dark Empire?

Ok but anyways Lucas says Anakin destroyed the Sith in ROTJ so Sidious (The Sith) is DESTROYED i.e. cant come back

It is my belief that DE is NOT Canon, it is a "what if" scenario(c-canon?)
henceforth, can't be used to backup the current debate about Sidious's uberpowers .

You can call Sidious whatever you want in DLOTS.. DE IS canon considering Lucas helped out with it. The prophecy called for the destruction of the sith and balance to the force. "Destruction of the sith" could mean a few things. Could mean what it says literally, could mean there would have been no more sith after Sidious, or that Bane's order was forever vanquished. It could mean a lot of things really, but Anakin DID fulfill that prophecy. IF you want to point fingers at things that ruin star wars, seek the Legacy comics. They better be N-CANON, otherwise they destroy the entire Star Wars Saga

Sorry GL pwns the eu

He said the Sith (sidious) were destroyed!
Can't u understand what destroyed means?? 😂

GL also is involved with the EU, unless youre going to take the idiot's route that's already been done on this forum, and claim GL has nothing to do with the EU. Read what EScape wrote, GL LOVED DE and said it would be a fitting sequel, therefore it is CANON... Capische dipshit?

😂 somebodys obviously not getting any!

ok we're not gonna agree !!

No need for namecalling 😄

Originally posted by Ogami Itto
😂 somebodys obviously not getting any!

ok we're not gonna agree !!

No need for namecalling 😄

We (Darth Sexy and myself) don't care if you agree with us. We're right. You're wrong. You don't read what we post, and instead choose to ramble on with your irrelevent bull. We'd be nicer if you read and understood that you have no evidence and no ground at all to stand on.

Which is the case, unfortunately.

The bottom line: DE is (again, unfortunately) canon, and Sidious's powers still apply. No one cares what you think, when in the face of cold hard fact.

Originally posted by Escape81
[B]We (Darth Sexy and myself) don't care if you agree with us. We're right. You're wrong. ]

😆 😆 😆 ooooo I like

Besides give me proof that GL worked on DE

I gave you a real quote from a valid source (the special editions)

And i don't want no Wiki shit either!! where is he quoted to have said that he considers DE pretty close to a sequel trilolgy?

I want PROOF not your pompous assertions that ur right and i'm wrong