Originally posted by Kas'Im
Why waste my time replying to your's when we know that Escape will reply, and we know that there's nothing you can add to the table that he can't. Not to be rude, but your posts aren't really worth a reply, sorry if that sounded harsh.
lmao, Sirak was stated to know Vaapad in PoD, I never said Revan or Bane could flow walk, just that when you consider the possibilities with the force, it's certainly possible that Sirak might have known Vaapad.
1) As I told you before. It is a canon fact that Mace Windu invented Vaapad. If this is truly said in PoD, it is obstructing a canon fact, and is therefore rendered non-canon.
2) When has this "flow walk" (if you are referring to Jacen Solo's ability) been shown to alter history or the past? Jacen used this ability to delve into the past and experience encounters that Anakin went through - but he didn't (or rather "couldn't" - as I recall) change anything. Once again, it is a nice speculation, but that is all it is - speculation is nothing. Not here. Not in a debate.
3) Sirak could have known Juyo. Which was a lightsaber form, and one that Maul mastered.
And Occlumency doesn't require any innate magical ability, I thought we had already resolved this. If you want, we can continue it.
Once again: It is stated to be "magical". The books (specifically, Professor Snape) said this twice. Muggles (non magic people) - and that includes Force users - do not possess a drop of innate magical ability, and therefore, cannot perform Occulumency or Legilimency.
The likes of Voldemort and Dumbledore possess complete defense from Jedi/Sith mind assaults, but Force users do not share the same luxary.
Please don't argue with JK's canon.
Ever heard of a thing called common sense? How the hell is Palpatine going to complete the several second ritual of a force storm if one of these force users just disrupt his concentration, which any of them can do in a heartbeat.
It is a mode of concentration, and not even a considerable mode at that. Palpatine was able to electrocute and torture Luke on board the Death Star in RotJ - while simultaneously exercizing Battle Meditation over the Imperial Fleet at Endor.
Considering how no one has interfered with performing a Force Storm (Luke and co. only used their considerable power to stop it after it had already been performed), it isn't likely that it is just that easy.
Furthermore, Palpatine managing to make his psychotic rant to Luke and Leia while summoning the Force Storm speaks well for him. If it required as much effort as you claim, it is likely that he'd be in a Bhudda stance - unable to talk or rant at all until the action is performed.
Or it is possible that he made his speech and then summoned the Force Storm.
You are the one making the 'half-assed, unsupported assumptions'; you are effectively saying that Sidious possesses enough control to be able to complete the ritual of a force storm while being attacked at the same time. That's bs.
I am saying that, as the most powerful Sith Lord in the Star Wars lore, and given what we know - it is likely that though he will remain vulnerable - they will not have the power to kill him in those seconds it takes to summon the Force Storm and then suck them into space.
BTW you have no proof whatsoever how long it took for him to create the storm, comics are still media so how much time passes between panels is up for interpretation. It most likely took about ten seconds, he would have likely started it shortly after their duel ended, and there seems to be at least ten seconds passed through by that time, what with Luke's mini speech and Palpatine taunting Luke and explaining how he has a contingency plan and whatnot. Ten seconds seems far more reasonable then 'a few', however at least I can accept that it's an assumption, you're just trying to pass off your opinion as fact, so don't talk about half-assed assumptions with me sonny Jim.
Unfortunately, one can infer. You've got no proof that it didn't take longer than a few seconds. And, you must consider ten seconds a long time if it doesn't qualify as a "few".
These three won't be killing him in ten seconds.
[/QUOTE]More likely, he would be pushed back by quite a bit, considering he is focusing on the force storm. He would either have to stop the ritual to defend himself, or let himself be attacked and thus lose concentration. Either way, he ain't gonna be able to pull one off.[/QUOTE]
You don't understand, my friend.
1) By DE, he is far beyond any of them.
2) Even if he has to stop and defend himself, he will still kill them.
And he's not exactly that much more powerful than Dooku or Vader (Vader himself was stated to be 80% of Sidious), just possesses more knowledge of the dark side.
Lucas made a quote to RotJ-era Palpatine. Palpatine does indeed possess FAR more knowledge than they do (which helps him quite a bit) and his power has vastly expanded since RotJ.
Furthermore, that was in terms of power (or potential). As Vader, he has 80% of Sidious's own potential.
Besides. No one said Vader was weak. But his life support system will make him the first one to die.
Palpatine's blasts of energy can mortally wound people. Specifically, Force-users.
How about no.
Refrain from being arrogant, lol. You don't dictate to me what happens and what does not. Debate a little more, if you will, and gain a reputation before you presume to be on par with anyone here.
Actually it does change the validity of it, as I've effectively mooted every point in your favour, he wouldn't be able to employ a force storm in a battle like this, you're wrong, just accept it.
You may see the above.
That's strange, I didn't catch him summoning one more than three times, but sure, if you say that he did it whenever he wanted, it must be true, correct?
That's right.
We saw Vader use Force Choke about three times in the movies. Does that mean it requires a concentrated effort for him to do it?
We saw Yoda unleash his furious power on Dooku and Sidious, years apart. Must mean he can only do so once every few months, eh?
Bullshit. Quit lying Escape, it's not my fault you're a fanboy.
Oh, of course. I am a fanboy. Once again. Don't presume as if you have any experience with me. I specifically stated on another thread (and I can provide the quote) that I HATE DE Sidious.
There's nothing to suggest that he was trying to kill Luke or Leia with the force storm.
"Look below... Look what is happening to your pitiful moon"
"He's destroying the whole fleet. Thousands of warriors are dying"
"My force storm is reducing your rebel fleet to dust. All of your friends will die"There's absolutely no evidence to suggest that he was attempting to use it on Luke or Leia, nothing.
Read what Darth Sexy provided. Having debated with Darth Sexy on plenty of occasions, I have to say that he, unfortunately, "can bring more to the table than you can".
He didn't plan on using it on Luke or Leia, so this point is moot.
See the above.
Actually I think you'll find that it's your argument that just got destroyed, so unlucky about that.
As I said before, "sonny boy", you've not got a reputation around here, and you're really not appreciated by those of us who do.
Hold up, I thought that it was Zephiel who makes the bastard come out of you, or wait, wasn't it San'Doria, or Admiral Ackbar, or sith'ari, or anyone at EoD? It seems like you're just a bastard period. 😉
Oh, you've got no idea. 🙂
escaoe81 you seem to forget that there are 3 sith lords fightning him, yes palpatine in DE can finish any of them on a 1 v 1 match, but how is palpatine going to strike out lightning at all 3 of them when 3 of them are spreaded around, i may go down but again it leaves him open,
And with both dooku and vader throwing objects at him, he has to defend right? which again leaves him open to be attacked by maul
I honour your support for palpatine but he cant defeat all 3 of them, there are other sith lords who can defeat him.
Did you know that vader is still 80% of sidious even by DE? Why? because already in the movies he is at his peak, He just happens to learn more techniques in the force while he is hiding in byss
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Hey escape, is that a shot at me? IF so, it's not MY fault that I can only bullshit with the limited sw knowledge I possess and sometimes create semi logical arguments.. Don't use "unfortunately" with my name lol..
'Unfortunately' for Kas'Im, you can bring better arguments to the table than he can. 😛 Not unfortunately for you.
escaoe81 you seem to forget that there are 3 sith lords fightning him, yes palpatine in DE can finish any of them on a 1 v 1 match, but how is palpatine going to strike out lightning at all 3 of them when 3 of them are spreaded around, i may go down but again it leaves him open,
San'Doria, understand this:
You can't dictate where exactly Dooku, Vader, and Maul will be standing. For all you know, they'll be very close to one another. You can't just say: "oh, they'll be standing here, here, and here".
Read Dark Empire. Palpatine fired off a single burst of lighting per Jedi - and mortally wounded one, and immediately killed the other.
All he has to do is blast one, blast the other, and blast the third. This is not RotS Palpatine. He's far more powerful than he was then. And, this isn't in RotJ where he is torturing Luke. He will be looking to kill these three. Not torture them.
And with both dooku and vader throwing objects at him, he has to defend right? which again leaves him open to be attacked by maul
You just don't understand. Vader's electronic life support systems make him especially vulnerable to Palpatine. Need I remind you that Vader stood no chance against Palpatine as of RotJ? He even died when he managed to surprise Sidious in the first place.
As Palpatine put it in The Rise of Darth Vader:
"Is that why you choose to not strike me down? Because you know I could so easily overwhelm the delicate electrical systems of your suit?"
Fastforward 25 years, to a much more powerful Palpatine. Vader's going down.
Then you forget that Palpatine can move faster than the eye can see (!). Vader, Maul, and Dooku are no where near that fast.
I honour your support for palpatine but he cant defeat all 3 of them, there are other sith lords who can defeat him.
1) He would slaughter these three. He's too quick.
2) He is the most powerful Sith Lord ever. Period. No other Sith Lord could take him in a fight.
Did you know that vader is still 80% of sidious even by DE? Why? because already in the movies he is at his peak, He just happens to learn more techniques in the force while he is hiding in byss [/B]
Once again...
Vader possesses 80% of Palpatine's power (potential) by RotJ. As a Force user, Vader is very powerful. But his lack of mobility and his life support system would make him easy prey.
Originally posted by Escape81
San'Doria, understand this:You can't [B]dictate
where exactly Dooku, Vader, and Maul will be standing. For all you know, they'll be very close to one another. You can't just say: "oh, they'll be standing here, here, and here".Read Dark Empire. Palpatine fired off a single burst of lighting per Jedi - and mortally wounded one, and immediately killed the other.
All he has to do is blast one, blast the other, and blast the third. This is not RotS Palpatine. He's far more powerful than he was then. And, this isn't in RotJ where he is torturing Luke. He will be looking to kill these three. Not torture them.
[/B]
you forgot that vader dooku and maul are carrying lightsabers to block his lightning
Originally posted by Escape81i already knew that lol, but you forget a lightsaber does block lightning
You just don't understand. Vader's electronic life support systems make him especially vulnerable to Palpatine. Need I remind you that Vader stood no chance against Palpatine as of RotJ? He even died when he managed to surprise Sidious in the first place.As Palpatine put it in The Rise of Darth Vader:
"Is that why you choose to not strike me down? Because you know I could so easily overwhelm the delicate electrical systems of your suit?"
Fastforward 25 years, to a much more powerful Palpatine. Vader's going down.
[/B]
Originally posted by Escape81you seem to forget we cannot give credit to a RPG stat book who has yet to prove that sidious did move that fast
Then you forget that Palpatine can move faster than the eye can see (!). Vader, Maul, and Dooku are no where near that fast.[/B]
Originally posted by Escape81wrong, nihilus could take him, exar kun could take him, freedon nadd could take him and in this thread, lightsnake got his ass handed to him about exar vs sidious http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=386748&perpage=20&highlight=&pagenumber=1
1) He would slaughter these three. He's too quick.2) He is the most powerful Sith Lord ever. Period. No other Sith Lord could take him in a fight.
[/B]
Originally posted by Escape81
Once again...Vader possesses 80% of Palpatine's power (potential) by RotJ. As a Force user, Vader is very powerful. But his lack of mobility and his life support system would make him easy prey. [/B]
sigh he could just pull off a force crush and as i keep saying palpatine is a sith lord, he cared nothing about the lightside techniques, he doesnt know heal, he doesnt know lukes force shield, He cant defend against crush, what is there to say he can?
and for nihilus vs sidious? sidious cant loop out of the force, this quote from a former debator is good enough to prove that What is so hard to understand in the point that he can't have mastered every aspect of the force because:
a) He stated himself that he couldn't access the Jedi Holocrons
b) Some groups of force users - like the Falanassi - did hide away from him and he never had access to their ways of using the force.
you forgot that vader dooku and maul are carrying lightsabers to block his lightning
No offense, but you've really frayed my patience. If this sort've crappy logic is the kind you're going to bring up, then don't argue with me any more.
Mark it well:
Sufficiently powerful Force users can destroy the defenses provided by a lightsaber. Yoda, when using the Force, exhibits superhuman levels of physical strength beyond Dooku, Maul, or Vader. And, in RotS, Sidious disarmed Yoda with a single blast of lightning.
Now, Palpatine's a stronger Force user, and his lightning has improved dramatically.
you seem to forget we cannot give credit to a RPG stat book who has yet to prove that sidious did move that fast
Dark Empire confirmed that in his duel with Luke, Palpatine was moving faster than the eye could see - and the energy he was generating was killing nearby Stormtroopers.
It is a fact. Period.
wrong, nihilus could take him, exar kun could take him, freedon nadd could take him and in this thread, lightsnake got his ass handed to him about exar vs sidious http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=386748&perpage=20&highlight=&pagenumber=1
Look. You and Kas'Im are seriously pissing me off with the "you're wrong" remarks - and then expecting me to accept it. Neither of you have any real reputation or experience. You, especially, San'Doria - aren't taken seriously at all.
Palpatine knows all Dark Side techniques. This is confirmed . Exar doesn't. Nihilus doesn't (and Sidious possesses Nihilus's drain powers), and Freedan Nadd can't touch Sidious.
sigh he could just pull off a force crush and as i keep saying palpatine is a sith lord, he cared nothing about the lightside techniques, he doesnt know heal, he doesnt know lukes force shield, He cant defend against crush, what is there to say he can?
Palpatine = most powerful and knowledgeable Sith Lord. Confirmed. A lesser Force user isn't going to kill him with a Force Crush.
and for nihilus vs sidious? sidious cant loop out of the force, this quote from a former debator is good enough to prove that What is so hard to understand in the point that he can't have mastered every aspect of the force because:
a) He stated himself that he couldn't access the Jedi Holocrons
b) Some groups of force users - like the Falanassi - did hide away from him and he never had access to their ways of using the force.
You can argue with DS or LS. I'll let them own you. I just don't have the patience for you.
Originally posted by Escape81and with vader having great physical strength to keep his lightsaber in place while blocking the lightning? your point gets crushed
No offense, but you've really frayed my patience. If this sort've crappy logic is the kind you're going to bring up, then don't argue with me any more.Mark it well:
Sufficiently powerful Force users can destroy the defenses provided by a lightsaber. Yoda, when using the Force, exhibits superhuman levels of physical strength beyond Dooku, Maul, or Vader. And, in RotS, Sidious disarmed Yoda with a single blast of lightning.
Now, Palpatine's a stronger Force user, and his lightning has improved dramatically.
Originally posted by Escape81Again we cannot give credit to a sourcebook whom is a RPG stat book. If he was really that fast the comic itself would have wrote something, which they didnt
Dark Empire confirmed that in his duel with Luke, Palpatine was moving faster than the eye could see - and the energy he was generating was killing nearby Stormtroopers.It is a fact. Period.
[/B]
Originally posted by Escape81, you cant accept it because your a fanboy of sidious. And you think you have a good reputation? yes for your apparant fanboyism of palpatine
Look. You and Kas'Im are seriously pissing me off with the "you're wrong" remarks - and then expecting me to accept it. Neither of you have any real reputation or experience. You, especially, San'Doria - aren't taken seriously at all.[/B]
Originally posted by Escape81
Palpatine knows all Dark Side techniques. This is confirmed . Exar doesn't. Nihilus doesn't (and Sidious possesses Nihilus's drain powers), and Freedan Nadd can't touch Sidious.[/B]
Originally posted by Escape81Being the most powerful doesnt mean invincible. As i said, vader is 80% of sidious, how is sidious going to defend against a force crush when he has no lightside techniques! He cant use the dark side to creat a shield because that is a lightside ability
Palpatine = most powerful and knowledgeable Sith Lord. Confirmed. A lesser Force user isn't going to kill him with a Force Crush.
[/B]
Originally posted by Escape81Sad to say, that link i posted, Had LS ass handed to him
You can argue with DS or LS. I'll let them own you. I just don't have the patience for you. [/B]
lying fanboys cant save sidious
I have a hard time believing that Lightsnake got owned. Much less by you.
For example:
From you:
and with vader having great physical strength to keep his lightsaber in place while blocking the lightning? your point gets crushed
You must not have read this:
From me:
Yoda, when using the Force, exhibits superhuman levels of physical strength beyond Dooku, Maul, or Vader.
So don't tell me that my point gets crushed, when you don't READ.
Regarding your reading skills... I'm not going to go so far as to say that you can't read... (though if your spelling is any indication, you have the reading comprehension of an unplugged toaster)... but, perhaps it is that you choose not to read.
Another example:
I've just told Kas'Im that I hate DE Sidious, because he is one of those who makes the Force seem to be more akin to magic powers. I can even provide a quote from another thread, too.
But, either out of lethargy or (possibly) sheer stupidity, you choose not to read. Why? I've got no clue.
Argue with DS or LS from now on.
Originally posted by San'Doria
THEN READ THE LINK, see it for yourself
Originally posted by San'Doria
For example:From you:
You must not have read this:
From me:
So don't tell me that my point gets crushed, when you don't READ.
Regarding your reading skills... I'm not going to go so far as to say that you can't read... (though if your spelling is any indication, you have the reading comprehension of an unplugged toaster)... but, perhaps it is that you choose not to read.
Another example:
I've just told Kas'Im that I hate DE Sidious, because he is one of those who makes the Force seem to be more akin to magic powers. I can even provide a quote from another thread, too.
But, either out of lethargy or (possibly) sheer stupidity, you choose not to read. Why? I've got no clue.
Argue with DS or LS from now on. [/B]
And you are wrong, vader in terms of PHYSICAL strength ALONE surpasses all other sithlords accept for maybe grievious
and you hate DE sidious, nice lying. From what i have been reading about you, you are another fanboy of palpatine.And no i dont have to argue with DS or LS because that thread is enough to convince me that ls is a lier and he got his ass handed to him, READ IT [/B][/QUOTE]
Originally posted by San'Doria and with vader having great physical strength to keep his lightsaber in place while blocking the lightning? your point gets crushed
Again we cannot give credit to a sourcebook whom is a RPG stat book. If he was really that fast the comic itself would have wrote something, which they didnt
, you cant accept it because your a fanboy of sidious. And you think you have a good reputation? yes for your apparant fanboyism of palpatine
firstly, Palpatines force drain isnt instant and its slow as hell, read this
Emperor Palpatine fed off the inhabitants of his retreat world of Byss collectively with his Dark Side Adepts, although those unfortunate souls were drained slowly, over a long period of time, rather than consuming the whole world at once, yes palpatine has learnt them but does he uses them? when have we seen him use spear of midnight black? when have we seen him use deadly sight? Secondly, freedon nadd as a spirit hurt vodo while nadd was in yavin4. But can the dark side defend against a dark side technique? Drain would kill palpatine, Exar kun can finish him off with a blast of the amulet
Being the most powerful doesnt mean invincible. As i said, vader is 80% of sidious, how is sidious going to defend against a force crush when he has no lightside techniques! He cant use the dark side to creat a shield because that is a lightside ability
Sad to say, that link i posted, Had LS ass handed to himlying fanboys cant save sidious
And you are an imbecile.
see it for yourself
This thread proves exar > sidious
and this came from SOMEONE who has seen the drain
"Emperor Palpatine fed off the inhabitants of his retreat world of Byss collectively with his Dark Side Adepts, although those unfortunate souls were drained slowly, over a long period of time, rather than consuming the whole world at once."
now DS stfu and gtfo, "DONT waste your time," i wont be convinced by your stupid fanboyism
now darth sexy read the ****ing link i posted, it had shut the mouth of LS and it will certeinly shut the gap on your face,
I prove my point, you have not
and DS i said PHYSICAL STRENGTH ALONE! how ****ing stupid can you be?
San'Doria, keep up the ranting - you'll get reported. No one cares about your temper tantrums. It is the general consensus of this forum that you flat-out suck as a debator.
You're not owning anyone. Get over yourself.
1) The Force > Mechanics, as DS said. Yoda has used the Force to show impressive feats of strength (moreso than Vader). Yoda was able to block an attack from Count Dooku - who was capable of using the Force to allow himself to block overhanded strikes from Anakin and Obi-Wan both - at the same time.
If RotS Sidious can overpower Yoda's lightsaber defenses with a single blast, be sured that he could easily do it to Vader. Sidious is now more powerful than he was in RotS and RotJ, and his lightning is now extreme.
Fact #1: Sidious is capable of blasting through that lightsaber.
2) Oh, and, you forget this. In Dark Empire, Sidious used the Force to disintegrate Leia's lightsaber hilt, nullifying the lightsaber itself.
What's to stop him from using that on Vader? Or Dooku? Or Maul?
Oops!
Fact #2: Sidious is capable of destroying their weapons.
(doesn't look good for these three, now does it?)
Fact #3: Sidious is far faster than these three (moving as fast as the eye can see, for one...)
Fact #4: Sidious is far more powerful than these three, in the Force.
Fact #5: Sidious possesses far more Sith knowledge than these three (or any other Sith Lord).
So, let's see:
- A single blast of Force energy will be sufficient enough to obliterate Vader. But, we'll take the cynic route. It'll take two. One blast to either a.) blast the lightsaber aside or b.) turn the lightsaber into dust. Then, the second blast will ruin Vader - killing him and putting him out of the fight.
- Sidious moves; then he can take out either Maul or Dooku with a similar feat. He can destroy their weapons, leaving them with their meager (in comparison) Force powers. Then, he blasts them both to hell.
- Sidious wins. The fight doesn't last that long.
Edit: I felt I had to respond because, your apparent arrogance and lack of cooperation as far as reading is concerned, warranted a nice swift kick of reality.
You're not anything special around here. Stop pretending that you are.
As for the Exar Kun vs. Sidious thread, it is old, and proves nothing. So quit saying: "oh this proves everything!", when clearly - if it is the consensus that Sidious > Kun, it didn't prove a damn thing.