aquantiences than friends??

Originally posted by LovelyOne
I think the real significant bond/relationship was actually Jack/Liz in movie 1. It seems like the Will/Jack thing should be the most important but its not..they chose not to continue that theme...they actually continued the J/E bond/relationship. That island scene with Liz in movie one was probably the most significant moment for Jack. (even Johnny says this on the lost disc edition)

But they also frigging cut the scene that is vital to movie 2 and why Jack is behaving the way he does around Elizabeth. Its all because of that Island encounter with her when she burned the rum. He's met his equal..his soul mate in her. These two had a far more important meeting of characters than W/E & J/W..and they had a far more significant scene together..the ISLAND scene that was both characters laid bare for what they really are(literraly layers stripped off). Its the most telling moment of Jack sparrow (according to Johnny and the writers/director) Its also the most telling moment of Elizabeth I think too. Its who both people really are underneath everything.

Will is not even given a scene like this.

They put THESE two [b]together to show this depth in both characters for a REASON 🙂 why did they feel it more important for her to have this particular telling moment with Jack and not Will and why did they choose to show this particular telling moment of Jack with Elizabeth and NOT WITH THE WHELPY BOY??

very interesting

Why does she not have a scene like this with Will..EVER? if its really him shes supposed to have depth with etc etc? [/B]

Sometimes i get the feeling that even from the beginng (COTBP) the Writers never really wanted us to get comfortable with Will/Elizabeth! Because ur very right Lovelyone there is never really a moment when Will and Liz connect...and honestly i dont think Will truely knows what Liz is fully capable of, he dosent really know her!!

AGREED^^

and on the captain! thing

she says it twice..then we meet him and he's in a coffin so strange how even before the wedding was disrupted...she looks as if she is mourning the death of someone..and Jack is clearly the person on her mind..and has been for a while..because of that look Will gives..like jealousy "ohh she's showing how much she loves JACK again" kinda look

Ya....that was a definate jealous look right there!! and just how the whole day came about you know? like how it was raining and it just didnt look like it was a wedding...so like whether it was beckett who stopped the wedding or the rain something would have eventually made the wedding come a hault....Like the marriage was never meant to be!!

Originally posted by PirateDiva
Ya....that was a definate jealous look right there!! and just how the whole day came about you know? like how it was raining and it just didnt look like it was a wedding...so like whether it was beckett who stopped the wedding or the rain something would have eventually made the wedding come a hault....Like the marriage was never meant to be!!

RIGHT THE WEDDING WAS NEVER MEANT TO BE🙂
Beckett could have invaded at any time but it just so happened to be at their wedding
what do you know
fate intervened

Beckett didnt intervene it was fate. and fate was jack 😛

You know, when I first saw the movie, and all the other times I've seen it as well, this line has bothered me so much. I was thinking the same thing, "I thought they were friends" but what I came up with is that Will may have just said that so Beckett won't have something against him... I don't know though.

Wrong, wrong, wrong....When Beckett mentions that Jack is Will's friend, Will is being cautious. He's already in trouble for helping Jack, and he's suspicious of Beckett. He doesn't want Beckett to know too much about how close he and Jack actually are.

Of course, Will is not experienced enough to mask his emotions, but he's getting there. Beckett is just excellent at manipulation. Also, you have to remember, Will and Elizabeth probably have not seen Jack since he escaped...so they aren't building a friendship with him.

The wedding is meant to be...but Beckett timed his arrival to break up the wedding, to show everyone who's in charge now, and because it would be more motivation to get everyone to do what he wants them to do.

All the foreshadowing isn't foreshadowing, but more of a ploy to get you to believe something, while something else is lurking under the depths and is just biding its time to jump out and catch you off guard.

As for Will not repeating the "Captain" bit, I think he realized he had just made a mistake, and was silently berating himself for it. He shouldn't have acted so familiar with Jack Sparrow, because then Beckett has something more to use against him.

This might be an example of reading just a teeny bit too much into a scene. Just a bit. 😉

i dont think its reading too much into the scene.
it was a rainy terrible day, not a day for a wedding. thats fate.
though i do agree with you on beckett timing his arrival-that's not fate, he planned that.
though he does say that fate line, her going into much trouble for JS-these are lines that there is something wrong with their relationship

and will-i dont think he's jealous, i think surreal is right about him realizing he made a mistake...idk, maybe he's jealous-but to me at this point he doesn't seem aware of how elizabeth feels...or is going to feel, his face when he sees them kissing is so confused, if he had known something about her feelings it wouldn't have been as confused as it was.

Originally posted by LovelyOne
I wish I know their email or what ever.

What bugs me with KttC is they really are very W/E based in the spoilers and specs section..kate said they delete J/E spoilers and such with no real proof that they are wrong. They tell J/E supporters to shut up through PM in the thunderdome when you show a lot of passion towards J.E (they did me anyway)

It wasnt about the way I spoke. It was about me posting to much J/E in the tunderdome they even complained in the actual thunderdoome itself too, telling me not to post so much J/E stuff yet the W/E shippers go on and on.

The only place where we can really talk J/E is in the spyglass..and there if you post speculation/spoilers it gets deleted..

I think they know the important people are looking at the speculation and spoilers section and they keep the J/E happy shippers out...they just keep them out of there in general actually. So many J/E shippers on that site have a fear of going into the specs and spoilers section..now I know why cuz they rip you apart and chase you away, or they ban you.

All the "important people" see is the praise towards the E/W spoilers..which is sneaky IMO KttC EW shipper mods know what they are doing..why is it ALL E/W shippers who are the mods in that section?

suspicious

LOL im not getting involved in another battle, but they do delete liz/jack spoilers. recently, the "choke on it" scene, the "will dies" rumor, and a bunch of pictures of the whores crying have bitten the dust, because apparently the sites they were posted on and linked to were "sites that contain unnecessary character bashing." lol.

the thing is, there really arent any will/liz spoilers at the moment, except for the wedding rumor. thats it, and no one has a link to that.

but i have been having my way in the thunderdome, and as long as i end every post with a smiley face, they dont bother me about getting passionate. but i definately am more free with my speech here. i love ya alls!!!!

its interesting, we havent had a super dramatic day in a while. remember the day the "will dies" rumor surfaced? man oh man, that was intense.

its interesting, we havent had a super dramatic day in a while. remember the day the "will dies" rumor surfaced? man oh man, that was intense.

It wouldn't be to bad to have another one. Everyone needs some excitement from time to time 😄

lol-that was an intense day-and if you didnt sign on that day...you had a LOT of catching up to do

HeY aLL My LoVes Of KMC!!! I Just wanted to say that i shall miss u all cause i am on my way to HAwaii!! See u all when i get back in a week....OMG imma have a lot to read when i come back...lol!!! If anything Special happens, or any drama happens PM me with it thanks!!! Love ya and miss ya!! MuaH!!!

Originally posted by Surreal_44
Wrong, wrong, wrong....When Beckett mentions that Jack is Will's friend, Will is being cautious. He's already in trouble for helping Jack, and he's suspicious of Beckett. He doesn't want Beckett to know too much about how close he and Jack actually are.

Of course, Will is not experienced enough to mask his emotions, but he's getting there. Beckett is just excellent at manipulation. Also, you have to remember, Will and Elizabeth probably have not seen Jack since he escaped...so they aren't building a friendship with him.

The wedding is meant to be...but Beckett timed his arrival to break up the wedding, to show everyone who's in charge now, and because it would be more motivation to get everyone to do what he wants them to do.

All the foreshadowing isn't foreshadowing, but more of a ploy to get you to believe something, while something else is lurking under the depths and is just biding its time to jump out and catch you off guard.

As for Will not repeating the "Captain" bit, I think he realized he had just made a mistake, and was silently berating himself for it. He shouldn't have acted so familiar with Jack Sparrow, because then Beckett has something more to use against him.

This might be an example of reading just a teeny bit too much into a scene. Just a bit. 😉

Please dont ever say someone can look too much into a scene when you have no knowledge of film studies..T&T/gore had to study the exact same way as me in college to get to where they are today, they would probably laugh at someone saying "they dont think about what they put into a scene"

..everything put into a scene is thought out long before they even shoot...so that little look Will gives? He was probably told to do it to look jealous. the setting? Everything means something. The setting can often reflect the characters emotions..the colour of the scene is drained..reflecting Lizzies emotions..and this is before the wedding even gets stopped. Before she knows Will is even arrested..the atmosphere is reflecting how she feels.."miserable about the wedding"..she's emotionally drained..she then snaps on about Jack...and we are introduced to Jack in a coffin..then we get that line later on "widow before marriage, searching for her husband lost at sea"

you cant even BE a widow before marriage unles you were perviously married to someone else and they have lft you to persue a hobby or have dies..since when did Will do either before their marriage?

I had to write and draw a story board for my college coursewok and before I could even start I had to think about what I was going to put into the mise en scene first that would reflect what I was trying to portay with, camera angles, lighting, setting, camera directions, color all to add to my over all theme for character.

"The use of mise-en-scene elements by a film maker helps the viewer to "read" a scene in a particular way. Mise-en-scene can offer the viewer information and meanings connected to character, genre, atmosphere, mood, place, space and time. Elements of mise-en-ecene may be repeated within a film and they may also change. you should carefully identify the elements which are constant and those which change and consider why this difference occurs"

Mise en scene:

1) setting
2) decor
3) props
"The objects included in a scene are also essential in the generation of meaning. They could give information about genre, historical period or character"
4) costume
5) make-up
6) colour
7) Character body language and movement
(also camera angles often come into play here)

ALL of these can be used in film to create themes/meaning (deeper meaning)

"Elements of mise-en-ecene may be repeated within a film and they may also change. you should carefully identify the elements which are constant and those which change and consider why this difference occurs"

I take this into consideration when talking about Liz at the start of the movie and Liz at the end of the movie..she's mourning Jack..and its repeated later on at the end. but there is also a difference but the theme be constant..Jack is REALLY gone from her life now..he's not just absent and in a coffin after her mourning at a funeral type scene (mise en scene again peeps)

I always thought they both said "captain" at the same time and then Will didn't want to appear too close and said "more an acquaintance than a friend." And that's true, isn't it? Like someone said, he hasn't seen Jack for a while and they can't really build up their relationship. But I thought for sure he and Liz said it at the same time.
Will and Jack is a cool relationship because they're friends in the sense that they will watch the other's back and their differences actually compliment one another. It's my opinion they're stronger together than they are apart, but they aren't friends in the sense that they like spending time together, can confide in one another, and can support one another. That's where Liz comes in. I have a feeling she was involved in their plan to save Jack from hanging, but there hasn't been a scene of her actually working with Jack unless you count searching for the chest, which wasn't really a team effort because she was the only one who had the compass and it didn't work how she thought it would. But she does provide the friendship that Will doesn't. She's supportive of Jack and makes him feel confident enough to talk to her about anything.

I don't think Will and Jack were connected or friends at ALL. Even in CotBP, Will was still VERY hesitant to trust Jack {When Elizabeth didn't mind jumping head first into trusting him} and he still held his discriminatory feelings towards pirates. He saved Jack from the hangmans' noose cause he felt GUILTY, not because he wanted to save Jack.

Honestly, he doesn't even thing about Jack at all. All the little Unuich has on his mind is Elizabeth and his father. He's just a one track minded person, he doesn't really appeal to me or alot of others.

{BTW I posted a poll for J/E and alot of other ships, so far it's 50/50 with J/E and EW}

And Surreal__44, what would you classify your self as. I mean, what ship do you root for.

Secondly, I DO think Beckatt coming that day WAS FATE! Honestly, he could've come ANY time in the world, any time. But it HAD TO BE ON THEIR WEDDING, and there is barely any way to find out if the Unuich and Elizabeth were to be married on that day. SO HE DIDN'T PLAN TO RUIN THEIR WEDDING, IT WAS FATE!

HAHAHAHA, burn!

where did you post that poll?^^

and I agree with you..

you see his legs just appear in shot right after she looks like she's kneeling at a grave..

In KTTC, I wanna see what those people think. And if they got rid of the J/E shippers, I'm gonna cry and raise a protest.

Lol, it's in Speculations And Spoilers.

Called lets take a vote.

YAY, J/E IS WINNING. IT'S AT 5 AND EW IS AT 2!

Wrong, wrong, wrong....When Beckett mentions that Jack is Will's friend, Will is being cautious. He's already in trouble for helping Jack, and he's suspicious of Beckett. He doesn't want Beckett to know too much about how close he and Jack actually are.

Will used Jack to get to Liz lol. Hes not being catious, hes being honest. Will doesnt still trust him. He never did really, he just used them they both used eachother for their own convenience.
We are RIGHT RIGHT RIGHT and you got PUNKED PUNKED PUNKED lol

But they can't deny that they both helped each other get what they wanted in COTBP. Will wanted to save Liz: Jack pretty much did all the work there. Jack wanted the Pearl, Will helped him get it and then saved him at the end. There is a foundation of friendship there, or at least debt to the other. They're forever connected now, not just because of Liz but because of how they've interfered with each other's lives.