aquantiences than friends??

In COTBP Will really wanted to help Jack escape. There was a bond between them. But, in DMC Will's character was a lot more darker. When Will was having that conversation with Becket he seemed sincere when he said that "more acquaintances than friends" line. I don't believe he said it just to be cautious. That wouldn't make sense, just the way he expressed it...he looked like he was being completely honest. He just wanted to save himself and Liz. I mean he didn't knew Jack that well, so he could careless for Jack's well being.
Therefore Liz looked like she really wanted to make sure he was alright. Liz spend time with him, she got to know him well. Jack really left a mark on her or else she wouldn't have gone and point a gun at Becket, steel the Letters of Marque, and go find him on her own. I mean she really went in to so much trouble. She didn't trust Will to find Jack, I wonder why?

Swann&Sparrow: If I could choose two people to be together, it would be Norrington and Elizabeth. I think they are excellently suited to each other personality-wise, they look good together, and they are both incredibly smart.

As for who I believe is going to end up together, it's W/E. I see no way that Elizabeth and Jack would ever be anything more than a "What might have been" couple.

Also, in the visual guide, it mentions that Beckett waited for the right moment for when to come to Port Royal...that moment was the wedding of Elizabeth and Will.

And yes, Beckett would have known about the wedding...That kind of news would have been considerably exciting, since Will and Elizabeth is a forbidden love The lady marries a man below her station? Unthinkable! The circumstances surrounding the engagement would have been shocking too, what with pirates and a broken engagement to a handsome Naval officer...the rumors probably spread well beyond Jamaica and the colonies.

After all, if Beckett knew about the compass, the chest of Davy Jones and Jack's escape, why wouldn't he know the date of Will and Elizabeth's wedding? It's not like today, where you mail an invitation out and people get it in a week or less; back then, it took a looooong time for news to travel, so there was plenty of time for Beckett to hear about the engagement.

Everything Beckett said in the movie was done to manipulate others, from mention Norrington and Sparrow without their titles (I believe he was testing the waters to see which person the others cared about more), to his non-surprise at Elizabeth getting the letters to getting Swann to work for him, Beckett had planned and mapped out all of their movements and responses. He'd be one heck of a chess player, I bet.

So no, it wasn't fate. Beckett doesn't believe in fate, he believes in himself. He's pretty much telling her that he is in control, that he'll do what he wants...when he wants. Beckett never says anything without purpose, so no, it wasn't a random comment from no-where.

To make sure I cover all interaction between Beckett, Elizabeth and Will, I might as well add that when Beckett off-handedly points out how much trouble she's going to for Sparrow, and she protests, I think he is simply fishing for information on how much she cares about Jack.

I think up until the point where Jack was so flippant about Elizabeth's plight when they got onto the Pearl was where Will decided that he'd had enough of Jack and no longer trusted him. The very fact that Jack would not hand over the compass to save Elizabeth was probably an affront to Will, and he was willing to do anything to get that key to save her, because without the key Jack would not give him the compass.

And I agree with willofthewisp; Will and Jack used each other in the first movie, and they did have a friendship of sorts. Will realized his mistake the moment he tried to defend Jack's title, which is why he's more cautious in his meeting with Beckett. It has nothing to do with jealousy, and everything to do with staying alive.

Misty just pointed out another thing that is irritating to me...

Elizabeth didn't steal the letters for Jack...she stole them for Will. Not because she didn't trust him to get them, but because she didn't trust BECKETT.

Remember what her father said to her right before that scene? That even if Will succeeds, both Elizabeth and Will are going to hang? There is no way Will knows that information, and Elizabeth isn't going to leave those papers with Beckett on the off-chance he does something sneaky. I have a feeling if Jack's name was already on the papers she would have made Beckett put Will's name in there.

I'm sorry to say, that was not a J/E moment, and it wasn't an "Elizabeth is losing her love for Will" moment either. Elizabeth LOVES Will...she's attracted to Jack. Attraction and love are two totally different things.

i agree with all the beckett stuff about him planning it 100%

but of course i do not agree with the liz loves will, because if she was truly only thinking about will then there would be no point for the 'she's going into alot of trouble for jack' line or anything else jack/liz realated-if it is a EW ending then theres no point in any of it, it would have been a waste of time, characters cannot turn out the same way that they started in the beginning in the film, because films are made to teach lessons and to show you how a character changes throughout their problems, if the character ended up the way the movie started then the character nor us have learned anything.

Well...here's my two cents worth..I don't agree with anything Surreal44 writes....cuz Norrington and Liz look good together..okay...but Jack and Liz look good, hot, sexy and lovely together....and....yes, this line bothered me too...especially the first time I saw the movie..I was like "what the crap"....why would you risk your life for a mere acquantance...I guess maybe Will was only making nice with Beckett...that's why he stands between Jack and Norrington at the end of POTC..."yes, it's between Jack and you..." referring to his where he stands....
ya know....even at this point, my friends...I kept thinking..okay somethings going to happen between Jack and Liz...and then when Jack says that line "it would have never worked between us, darling...I'm sorry"...I was like okay...I wasn't a total idiot...there is more going on here then what meets the eye...why else would they have Jack utter that line to LIz....on initial thought ya might think it was just flirty old Jack..but then....it's much much more than that....I love this story...Jack and Liz forever...

Ok Surreal i have a few questions that I need for you to answer.
How could you be so sure that Liz stoled those letters to save Will? If the letters were really meant for Will she could have not showed them to Jack. She didn't even made great efforts to retrieve the letters from Jack when he took them. There were other ways to take them from him, instead of using "persuasion". Oh and how come if she was so pissed at Jack for taking the letters that were"meant for Will" we see her grinning after that persuade me scene? Those letters were meant for Jack all along, Liz knew it. What good were those letters for Will?. She could of have use the letters for herself, she was facing the same fate as Will.
She says these aren't going to Jack. And Becket was the one that asked her if it was to insure Will's freedom. She didn't answer the question. She didn't say if they were actually for Will.
Thats true Will couldn't possible known that he was going to get hanged anyways. But when Gov. Swann helps her scape from the prison and tells her they are going to go to England, Liz respond is,No Will has gone to find Jack! She could of had said I'm not leaving without Will or something like that. But her respond was different.
I'M glad that you are accepting that J/L are attracted to each other. Thats the first step, there has to be an attraction first and then comes loves. They may be totally different things, but thats how love starts. Oh
if she is sooo in love with Will, why is she suddenly feeling attracted to another man? humm makes you wonder, does she really loves Will? Perhaps.. Is she in love with him??? I guess we are gonna have to wait and see.

I dunno if Surreal writes all these to irritate us and test us. Or does shi sniff some pot before typing these ridiculous theories...

By the way Misty you kick ass lol

Originally posted by Mistypirate
Ok Surreal i have a few questions that I need for you to answer.
How could you be so sure that Liz stoled those letters to save Will? If the letters were really meant for Will she could have not showed them to Jack. She didn't even made great efforts to retrieve the letters from Jack when he took them. There were other ways to take them from him, instead of using "persuasion". Oh and how come if she was so pissed at Jack for taking the letters that were"meant for Will" we see her grinning after that persuade me scene? Those letters were meant for Jack all along, Liz knew it. What good were those letters for Will?. She could of have use the letters for herself, she was facing the same fate as Will.
She says these aren't going to Jack. And Becket was the one that asked her if it was to insure Will's freedom. She didn't answer the question. She didn't say if they were actually for Will.
Thats true Will couldn't possible known that he was going to get hanged anyways. But when Gov. Swann helps her scape from the prison and tells her they are going to go to England, Liz respond is,No Will has gone to find Jack! She could of had said I'm not leaving without Will or something like that. But her respond was different.
I'M glad that you are accepting that J/L are attracted to each other. Thats the first step, there has to be an attraction first and then comes loves. They may be totally different things, but thats how love starts. Oh
if she is sooo in love with Will, why is she suddenly feeling attracted to another man? humm makes you wonder, does she really loves Will? Perhaps.. Is she in love with him??? I guess we are gonna have to wait and see.

i agree wit ya 100%
especially the last part
sure, if you're inlove with someone you're still going to be attracted to other guys, but liz takes this a little too far for someone who is suppose to be in love-she didn't have to kiss jack, she didn't have to flirt with him-if she was in love she shouldn't have nor wanted to do such things with another man. especially since this is the beginning of their marriage its not like they've been married for a long time and now she's bored...though i guess with will you'd get bored pretty quickly

yay misty!
lol-kudos for everyone on this fourm who have made their wonderful theories- you truly bring air freshner where will has envaded...lol

Ok about those Letter, those everyone remember the scene before the persuasion one. Jack's asks her how she got the letters..yada, yada,yada. And the Jack says, " Will strikes a deal for these and upholds it with honor. Yet you're the one standing here with the prize. Full pardon, commission as a privateer on behalf of England
and the East India Trading Company. As if I could be bought for such a low price." I believe Liz wanted those letters for herself, it is clearly stated. And when Jack takes them and puts them in his coat, she says," Jack the letters, give them back". She didn't say give them back they are for Will. Liz wants to save her a$s, I believe she wants those letters for herself.

Originally posted by mmoviejunkie
yay misty!
lol-kudos for everyone on this fourm who have made their wonderful theories- you truly bring air freshner where will has envaded...lol

Lol you are welcome 😄

Originally posted by Chiki Mina
I dunno if Surreal writes all these to irritate us and test us. Or does shi sniff some pot before typing these ridiculous theories...

By the way Misty you kick ass lol

😄 Thank you Mina.
I truly believe she gets high before posting these theories. 😎

Hey....I don't think Liz is "in Love" with Will....I do believe that she loves him...and believe me there is a big difference....remember (i've posted this before somewhere else)...at the beginning of POTC when Liz is a little girl and she is singing the Pirates song....then she says "I think it would be exciting to meet a Pirate"...well, when she meets Will she thinks he's a Pirate..but it's not all that exciting..what was exciting is the way she meets Jack...and he Looks and Acts like a Pirate in that scene. Anyways...one clue as to how Liz actually feels about Will....ya'll know how Lovely always refers to this relationship as a brother/sister type thing...Liz is more protective of Will...she looks out for him...because she promised her father she would...at the beginning of POTC on the Dauntless...her father tells her..."watch over him, Liz, the boy is in your charge, now."....and when Will comes to and he meets Liz for the first time she tells him "I'm watching over you Will."....That's why Liz does what she does.....She watches over Will..she protects him...she feels responsible for him....yes, she loves him....but what is going on between her and Jack is so much deeper...and adult and sexy....

Oh, yea.....about those letters of Marque...she sooo was getting those for Jack...Beckett even knows that....she holds him at gunpoint...those letters are for Jack...not her, not Will....it's not a wedding interrupted, fate intervenes...Beckett says "you make great efforst to ensure Jack Sparrow's freedom"....Liz responds: "these are not for Jack"...and Beckett never even glances her way and says "oh, really." to me that implies that he's not buying a word she is saying....and you are right Misty...she gives those letters to Jack first chance she gets....and she wasn't pissed...she was smiling...at Jack's suggestion...she was imagining what it would be like to "persuade" him...if she is SO in love with Will...why is she daydreaming and fantazing about dear old Jack...Will is her childhood love...Jack is her soulmate and adult Love...the chemistry between jack and liz is too great to be overlooked...the kisses between Will and LIz are boring..and lack passion...they are just sweet..that's all....

When you watch The Kiss...you can feel the passion oozing out of Liz and Jack...face to face, nose to nose, breath to breath, mouth to mouth...so hot....and especially when she moves in as if to take another taste....I can't wait for Jack to ask her why she kissed him when there could have been many other ways to force him to stay behind...

Surreal 44 she didnt take them for Will..Beckett even knows she's taking them for Jack. Think back to the scene where she shouts "CAPTAIN!...CAPTAIN JACK SPARROW!" he knows that this woman is smitten with him, his facial expression says this..even Wills facial expression suggests she's been talking about him a lot since he left them both

when he suggests it she over reacts when saying no..that bares the marks of someone who is trying to hide their feelings.

secondly when her dad is taking her away from the jail she shouts "but Will has to find JACK".....odd choice of words there if she's desperate for Will to be safe...its like "Will needs to save JACK!"

if its not fate intervening then why on earth is the theme raised.."and I say it was divine providence that rescued us from Jail"

no lines are added into a movie to be pointless...its just common sense people..its not even common sense actually..Its like the No1 rule of script writing.

You are absolutely correct Lovethemtigers and Surreal is living in a
surreal world. Is she from another site, like maybe pluto. (And I don't mean the dog.) Either that or she didn't see the movie we saw.

Liz feels she must still protect Will and even the kiss and hug on the beach IMO was a little too maternal. Not a whole lot of passion there. More like Will, old friend I am glad you are ok.

surreal..she loves Will..but IMO if you take out the two rather plain kisses where Liz actively jumps backwards, and the scene in the cell where she says "I'd have you already" you would swear they were family and not lovers. she loves him like a family member not as a partner..there is just no chemistry what so ever between the two...

Liz actually shows attraction to Jack..which is not what I see with Will at all. She shows shes attracted to him as a man and not just on a sexual level..its the deeper level which she fears..if she feared the sexual attraction she wouldn't have used a kiss to chain him up..she fears how she feels about him. Thats why she does what she does at the end..

imagine it..you have feelings for a man..you are afraid of them..he leaves you..then he comes back to save you..and toy know its because of you he did it..imagine how you would feel about him, your feelings would escalate sky high..everything about that shot suggests she's totally smitten with him. There is even a halo of light there.

Guys, be nice to surreal. You're acting the way KTTC people treat LovelyOne! This is a friendly discussion and she's entitled to think however she wants, or he. I don't know.

Here's the thing, the three men in the story, Norrington, Will, and Jack, are all at different levels of decency, and different levels of piracy. In the first movie, Norrington is a pretty great guy: smart, brave, the only one more concerned about justice than his own wants, and he gives Liz up to make her happy. Will is a nice guy, a little bit of a wimp here and there, but overall a nice kid that just wants to save the girl he loves. Jack is a pirate, and not a particularly nice guy, although he's not going to screw Will or Liz over to get what he wants. When you break it down, he has a selfish drive and only does things for others when he sees no risk involved.

Second movie: we've seen their initial levels, now it's time to develop characters, which usually happens in sequels, good sequels anyway. We saw so much of Norrington's good side we actually wondered what he and Liz would have been like and now we see his beloved job taken away and he's a total douchebag. He betrayed all of them and acted more shrewdly than any of them. So he has a pirate side which you would think would attract Liz. Being attracted to danger's only fun when it's not happening to you. Will, we saw a darker Will, but also a more developed one, one who didn't live in fear of Liz and tried to drive apart Jack's I'm-in-charge-when-it's-the-two-of-us attitude. So far, he doesn't really have a pirate side, so we're at extreme pirate for Norrie and no pirate for Will.

Then there is Jack. Jack has done some pretty bad things, but some pretty good things. If you look at it like a scale, Norrie is on both opposite ends, Will is still only on one, but falling back more to the middle, and Jack hops around, averaging to the middle. He seems to be the only one who can balance his need for freedom and to act on selfish impulse with doing the right thing, as much as he denies his ability to do so.

So Liz also tries to balance. She's a good girl, but Norrie's too nice, too boring for her so she tries Will and Will only drifts as much as he needs to. He'll never dominate her, never let her be free enough. It's only Jack that seems to like her being involved in the adventures in addition to protecting her.

I'm not being mean...Its just lots of peoples opinions countering hers..

I dont mean to be intimidating. So I apologize if thats how I'm coming across 😕

common guys(not speaking to anyone in particular so don't get mad at me just sayin..in general) we should appreciate surreal cause she's arguing with our ideas in a reasonable way..unlike SOME people(again no one in particular) who just marched in here told us their opinion rather rudely, made up some rumors, insulted our friends and swore like hell. but surreal is just saying her opinion, she's still our freind and a member of this forum just has a different POV. I haven't read this page that much just enough to know everyone got bugged at what she said.

I got to admit my own mind just started spining crazy, evry reason or point she made my mind went "no ACTUALLY it's not like that CAUSE this and that happend and it can't be like that!" but it's point of view we can't change it (at least not by force lol so I just wanted to thank her for posting her ideas in a friendly way