I dont think anyone means to be rude or come off as rude. I think we all just believe our won opinion is the right one 🙂 as you all have said we are intitled to our own opinions , that is why I love this forum, we can all speak our minds with our friends here and we are respected for our opinions. I want to thank all u guys for always listening to me and my crazy opinions🙂
luve u all
group
group hug
Well I actually like having Surreal around the forum. It gives us the opportunity to debunk her theories...which IMO her previous theory didn't make sense to me. And I just expressed about how I felt about it. And the comment were I said, that she gets high every time she post a theory was meant as a joke. I wouldn't get offended if someone that is disagreeing with me made that comment. I mean if someone tells me, what the heck are you saying are you high on something? I would take it as it is, a joke. I would not take it personal. Therefore I'm going be a good person and apologize if I hurt Surreal's feelings in any kind of way. 🙂
Oh Shannstar 79 I luv u to. Everyhting you said is entirely true. Everyone is intiteled to their own opinions.
Originally posted by Mistypirate
Well I actually like having Surreal around the forum. It gives us the opportunity to debunk her theories...which IMO her previous theory didn't make sense to me. And I just expressed about how I felt about it. And the comment were I said, that she gets high every time she post a theory was meant as a joke. I wouldn't get offended if someone that is disagreeing with me made that comment. I mean if someone tells me, what the heck are you saying are you high on something? I would take it as it is, a joke. I would not take it personal. Therefore I'm going be a good person and apologize if I hurt Surreal's feelings in any kind of way. 🙂Oh Shannstar 79 I luv u to. Everyhting you said is entirely true. Everyone is intiteled to their own opinions.
same here...don't mean to be rude...but Surreal's theories just don't wash with me....it's like Lovely says "fate intervenes"...that line is not put in the movie just for the fun of it...it means something...or else....why say it....why did they want us to focus so much on what is going on and developing between Jack and Liz...it can't be to make a stronger love tie between Will and Liz..cuz it didn't work...not for me, anyways....just wants me want to see more Jack and Liz...
Originally posted by lovethemtigers
same here...don't mean to be rude...but Surreal's theories just don't wash with me....it's like Lovely says "fate intervenes"...that line is not put in the movie just for the fun of it...it means something...or else....why say it....why did they want us to focus so much on what is going on and developing between Jack and Liz...it can't be to make a stronger love tie between Will and Liz..cuz it didn't work...not for me, anyways....just wants me want to see more Jack and Liz...
ME TOO
I just want more Jack and Liz and so does the rest of the world if you ask me
1 BILLION DOLLAR MARK 😄 😄
exactly..I doubt Disney are stupid enough to do the opposite of what obviously pushed DMC up to 1 bilion..even if that was the original intent before DMC was released.
I'm telling you the movie will not get to 1 billion unless there is J/E romantic chemistry or a hint of a J/E ending.
a movie only gets to 1 billion when something is working really really well onscreen. Its not will Turner I can tell you that. Its Jack sparrow..and what did we see with Jack sparrow in DMC?
If its to end W/E or Liz on her own I think they have made a mistake. This isnt just personal opinion its based on everything I'm taught about statistics in box office takings for like Titanic etc.
When something is obviously raking in the money in for DMC are you gonna do the exact opposite of that in the next installment?
of course not..well I hope not anyway...it doesnt take a dummy to know where the money is.
This is a blockbuster..their soul purpose is to make money..so they cant risk it.
YES YES YES! Exactly. Thank You 🙂 Lovethemtigers...
But some people just don't want to keep their minds open to other possibilities. I mean It's all in front of our faces. And like you said why focused so much attention in the developments of these two characters, why so much interest? They are not doing it because that line or that part looks or sounds nice in the movie. Or just to make the ties between W/E stronger. It's clearly not pointing that way. I do not buy it either. I know our theories are mostly true, i just feel it. Because the writers presented that idea clearly to us in DMC. And some people are just completely blinded by the idea that W/E are going to end up together, get married and live happily ever after. Sorry but it's not going to happen. Its not pointing that way. Oh and I'm not saying that J/L will, who wouldn't like that. There are visible signs in the movie that they are both attracted and have feelings for each other. Those feelings eventually are going to develop in to something else, attraction is the first step. Attraction(want)=Love. But I have an open mind and realise that they might not end up together at the end of AWE. Some conflicts are going to end at the end of AWE, but new ones will develop. And I believe that there might be something that is not going to allowed them to be together at the end. Well that is my opinion of what I think it might happen, I hope I'm wrong I really do. But I just have an open mind to other possibilities. It doesn't point that W/E are going to have a happy ending together. It clearly points it.
my friend who is a J/E shipper wne to see this movie 32 times..32 TIMES!
people did this with Titanic why? because they loved the love story yeah it can be argued they didnt end up together..well we went there expecting tragedy thats al I have to say..so we knew in the back of our minds that someone might die..AWE..no one knows what happens at the end.
a movie only reaches 1 billion when someone sees what they like and they watch it over and over and over again
and I'm not being funny but its mostly young women who watch this movie and they do love romances..obviously the J/E thing has caused a MASSIVE buzz and Disney would royally kill it if the end it W/E the most boring relationship to ever grace the big screen.
EW can say: "maybe people are going to watch the EW romance over and over"
Well I say: "what romance is that again?? I failed to see that amount to anything even remotely interesting in DMC"
I agree 100% I went to see Titanic 5 times. I'm not that young I'm 24 😄 but I do love those kind of romantic movies. Specially the forbidden love ones. And I loved DMC because of these two characters and there developments. I never expected it to happen, but it was presented to us. And I fell in love with that idea. And I bet that a lot a lot of people felled in love with that idea as well. I though the W/L thing in the first movie was ok, I was expecting it, it was a Disney movie. Nothing new, same ol boring thing. But when I saw that the relationship of J/L was developing in to something else, I was like holly c#$b thats a first. I never imagined it to happen. It was a surprise.
AGREE 100% LOVLEYONE
think about it, why in the owrld would they have a Wil/Liz ending, they KNOW they would not reach 1 billion again. Disney is very very smart, and so are T&T they know what and WHO the money makers are in this film. It would make absolutly no sence at all to make an ending that they know would not reach a million dollar mark
. period.
it wont reach 1 billion if its WE because firstly that is only 1 billion cuz peeps went to see it over and over..so those peeps are gonna probably see it once and never again if its EW..maybe twice if they love Johnny's character..even the EW shippers (not the majority of the audience) wont be able to build up the numbers because they are actually mainly Orlie fan girls or women who are like my mums age.
the rest of the audience either like Jack on his own or J/E ending..and I would suggest more like J/E ending..cuz movie 1 ended with Jack on his own and it got 360 million...vs 1 BILLION where Jack got the girl??
come on peeps its common sense.
J/E is HOT SHIT!
Well my 3 best friends liked the idea of the J/E thing, plus they love Johnny, thats why we went to see the movie over again. The only person that I know that doesn't like the idea of J/E to end up together is my sister. She is stuck behind the W/E thing, and loves Orlando Bloom she thinks they are going to end up together and live happily ever after.I try to explain our theories to her, but she is hard headed and she wont listen. So that makes 4- rooting for J/E and 1-for E/W. 4 to 1. What does that tell ya. 😄
There's just one thing about the J/E pairing that has me a little iffy, just one thing. With all our evidence that we've compiled and LovelyOne's film knowledge and other people's knowledge, why does it still feel like it will be a W/E ending? Does anyone else get that vibe that Disney is not going to do what we want and Will and Liz, although they may not live happily ever after, will probably be the couple at the end? I don't know, maybe it's just me, but I get a real eerie feeling about the whole thing.
Willo, that sinking feeling you have is your ship going down, sweetie. W/E are destined to be together, whether you want it to happen or not. I'm sorry, I really am, but that's just how it is. It's in the movie, it's hinted at what might happen to everyone in DMC...but you all are too, too centered on J/E.
If you would just STOP looking at EVERYTHING as being centered around J/E and take the other characters in the film into consideration, you'd see a lot more.
This next comment of mine is going to sound harsh, especially for LovelyOne, and I really don't intend for it to be...I've rewritten it about a half dozen times trying to soften it, so please don't be offended..but, just because LovelyOne has gone and studied film does not mean that she knows exactly what TnT are going to do or what they are planning.
There are plenty of ways to write a story and a way to lead people to one conclusion while at the same time, bringing up a more natural conclusion that will make you go "Oh!".
The two of them (TnT) have pretty much made it clear that W/E is going to end up together. It's right there, in front of us, how they want it to end. It's in the rough draft of the script, it was in CotBP, and it's in DMC. W/E will be together.
I adore arguing with all of you, but it's hard to do it when you just out-right dismiss it as being 'crazy talk'. I see little to no effort to even try to see things the W/E way...mainly because I think that if you look too closely, you'll see what I am saying and that worries you.
And it shouldn't. It is only a movie, after all. 😄
Basically, the 4-1 thing tells me that Johnny Depp has more fans. In all honesty, I think shipping is just a matter of which actor you like best, not which character makes the most sense together.
To me, N/E are the perfect couple. And yes, I'm well aware that my ship has so many holes in it that it is sinking faster than that little fishing boat Jack sailed to Port Royal in.
I like Jack Davenport, and I think he's the best looking of the three male lead characters in the films. My next choice would be Orlando, and my third choice is Johnny.
So maybe that's what it is. There isn't symbolism, but just hormones blinding everyone. 😄
Surreal said
If you would just STOP looking at EVERYTHING as being centered around J/E and take the other characters in the film into consideration, you'd see a lot more.
If you would STOP for a moment and make a list of the possibilities of Will/Liz. We started with Will/Liz we tried and retried making out possibilities of a Will/Liz ending. There is no chemistry, There is no spark, There is no bond. Love is extremely confusing yes. But what Liz thought it was just a physical attraction to Jack, it turned out to be more than meets the eye. What she thought it was love to Will, turned out to me a friendly love.
You cant just say since COTBP ended with Will/Liz means AWE will end that way too. To tell you the truth it actually never ended as a Will/Liz ending. All 3 characters still had unfinished business. Will still had his father to look for, liz still had that attraction towards jack, and jack couldn't stop thinking about her by the end of the movie.
Again, we are not OBSESSED FANATICS over Jack/Liz. WE are not making theories for the hell of it because its what we want to believe, its what we believe in. You don't need film studies or any type of special class(no offense Lovely). Its common sense. And its right under our noses. If you will stop for a moment in making things that you only want to happen, then you can probably see things a little clearer. We are opposing your theories not bc we hate you, its just doesn't make sense!
Question...how can Liz end up with Will if Will supposedly gonna become the next captain of the flying Dutchman??? You made many theories on how Will/Liz should end up together. I think you should explain then what will happen to Jack?
How do Norrington and Liz make more sense than Jack and Liz, or even Will and Liz? She has flat out rejected him. He does not appeal to her and I think he's gotten over her, at least for now. Will we all know at least has puppy love for her and Jack, well, you know how I feel about that.
Yeah, I agree that just because a film is SUPPOSED to do certain things doesn't mean it does. Several writers like to break traditions and several writers make what fans consider mistakes. I'm sure plenty of people really hated that Luke turned out to be Leia's brother. I just don't think it's promised that ANYTHING will happen. Will and Liz is just as likely as Jack and Liz. Jack/Liz is likely because the writers have put in hints and scenes that would have no purpose if it wasn't going to go anywhere.
Will and Elizabeth will work because Will ISN'T going to be the next captain of the Flying Dutchman. 😄 That's how W/E work. Also, the writers are obviously very W/E.
The problem is, what you view as chemistry isn't necessarily how TnT view chemistry. You want something explosive, thinking that it will be exciting and hot, and honestly, not everyone sees it that way.
Jack and Elizabeth together had flirty moments, but I wouldn't call it uber-hot OR sexy...especially that Kiss of Death you all keep pointing out as being THE turning point of the romance. It was, because she KILLS Jack. Dead, gone, he's being digested or whatever happens when a Kraken eats you.
Will and Elizabeth are together at the end of the movie...not Jack and Elizabeth. Will fought to get back to Elizabeth, Elizabeth fought to get back to Will...she KILLED for Will, she KILLED Jack...Elizabeth is happy to see Will...genuinely happy, not surprised!happy like she is when Jack returns to the ship. She hugs Will, kisses him...she kisses Jack and leaves him chained to a ship to die.
She agreed to marry Will, she threw out Jack's proposal. She threw out a marriage to a wealthy man to marry Will, she manipulated good men to their deaths for Will and she risked death...for WILL.
There's undeniable attraction Elizabeth and Jack, but that's all that there is. A relationship needs more than attraction, and as nice as total freedom sounds, I think that such a lifestyle would eventually wear on Elizabeth.
Besides that, one of the points you all keep pushing is the scene where Gov. Swann busts her out of prison, and you think the line is "But Will has to find Jack!" That isn't the line.
The line is "But Will has gone to find Jack!" and then immediately after that, she defends WILL...then her father tells her Will is going to hang no matter what happens. So what does that leave Elizabeth with? She has to do something to save the man she loves...so she steals for Will. I forgot that one...
Everything she does is for WILL. Not for Jack. You don't KILL for someone you don't love. If she really, really loved Jack, she would have stayed with him to die with him. Live together, die together. THAT is what you do when you love someone.
Every argument that you all have for J/E, you either contradict or conveniently come up with a way to make EVERY moment of the movie J/E. What I am trying to say here is that even IF there are hints for J/E in the movie, it isn't in every scene, and it isn't the whole plot/purpose of Dead Man's Chest, and it won't be the whole plot for AWE either.
Talk about loose plot lines, we still have Tia, DJ, Norrington and the EITC to deal with. Do we have any symbols (that don't involve J/E or Will's rather convenient death) that might foreshadow what happens in the next film with any of those characters?
I do love the shipping debate, but I would love it if we could talk about something else. 😄
I'll try to shift gears a little, but to let you know, in a group predominantly made of girls, even tomboys like me, subjects usually revert back to who Liz will end up with, as if that's all a woman is meant to do! Lol. 🤨
Are we all on the same page that Liz and Jack are at least friends? That they at least have come to that point in their relationship? Okay, because this is what would be interesting to talk about: how will Will react to being in charge now? He has no problem being a leader for short missions like getting of the cannibal island and the battle in the first movie, but to be in full command of a ship with Jack not even there? He's not speaking to Liz, who is his closest friend (we should all be agreed on that), so I wonder if his confidence will be hurting and lead him to make some stupid mistakes.
Originally posted by Surreal_44
Will and Elizabeth will work because Will ISN'T going to be the next captain of the Flying Dutchman. 😄 That's how W/E work. Also, the writers are obviously very W/E.The problem is, what you view as chemistry isn't necessarily how TnT view chemistry. You want something explosive, thinking that it will be exciting and hot, and honestly, not everyone sees it that way.
Jack and Elizabeth together had flirty moments, but I wouldn't call it uber-hot OR sexy...especially that Kiss of Death you all keep pointing out as being THE turning point of the romance. It was, because she KILLS Jack. Dead, gone, he's being digested or whatever happens when a Kraken eats you.
Will and Elizabeth are together at the end of the movie...not Jack and Elizabeth. Will fought to get back to Elizabeth, Elizabeth fought to get back to Will...she KILLED for Will, she KILLED Jack...Elizabeth is happy to see Will...genuinely happy, not surprised!happy like she is when Jack returns to the ship. She hugs Will, kisses him...she kisses Jack and leaves him chained to a ship to die.
She agreed to marry Will, she threw out Jack's proposal. She threw out a marriage to a wealthy man to marry Will, she manipulated good men to their deaths for Will and she risked death...for WILL.
There's undeniable attraction Elizabeth and Jack, but that's all that there is. A relationship needs more than attraction, and as nice as total freedom sounds, I think that such a lifestyle would eventually wear on Elizabeth.
Besides that, one of the points you all keep pushing is the scene where Gov. Swann busts her out of prison, and you think the line is "But Will has to find Jack!" That isn't the line.
The line is "But Will has gone to find Jack!" and then immediately after that, she defends WILL...then her father tells her Will is going to hang no matter what happens. So what does that leave Elizabeth with? She has to do something to save the man she loves...so she steals for Will. I forgot that one...
Everything she does is for WILL. Not for Jack. You don't KILL for someone you don't love. If she really, really loved Jack, she would have stayed with him to die with him. Live together, die together. THAT is what you do when you love someone.
Every argument that you all have for J/E, you either contradict or conveniently come up with a way to make EVERY moment of the movie J/E. What I am trying to say here is that even IF there are hints for J/E in the movie, it isn't in every scene, and it isn't the whole plot/purpose of Dead Man's Chest, and it won't be the whole plot for AWE either.
Talk about loose plot lines, we still have Tia, DJ, Norrington and the EITC to deal with. Do we have any symbols (that don't involve J/E or Will's rather convenient death) that might foreshadow what happens in the next film with any of those characters?
I do love the shipping debate, but I would love it if we could talk about something else. 😄
I am not usually one to argue at all, but when you said Elizabeth and will are together at the end of DMC I completely disagree. they may be physically there but BOTH of their hearst are in different places.
Will- Focused on NOTHING but how upset he is that the Pearl (not Jack) is gone so now he has no way of saving his fathers soul. that she ONLY thing his heart is focused on
Elizabeth- she is completly distraught over what she has done to Jack, she clearly feels terrible and she knows she shouldnt have dont, she already misses him, he spirit and her heart feel as if they are being pulled to the bottom of the ocean
they are there yes in the room physically together, but their hearts and sould are in two completly different places
same here....I feel no connection between Will and Liz at the end of DMC..they feel more distant than ever....she gives Will a hateful look too...when he asks "Where's Jack"...I'm sorry Surreal44...but I just didn't feel any great joy when Liz runs and hugs Will on the beach...it just lacks passion (to me)...sorry, but I beleive relationships need heavy sexual attraction to be a great love and long lasting love....i just don't feel any attraction between Liz and Will...and neither does many other people, as you say 4 to 1...
Okay, I'll admit to you Surreal44...I am a huge Johnny Depp fan...it's hard for me to even fathom that someone could find Jack Davenport and Orlando Bloom better looking...because in the looks department, Johnny is the most beautiful man in the world to me..and as Jack Sparrow, OMG< I can't even explain it.....AND not only he is the best looking of the three...he is the best actor -by a long shot (especially over poor Orlie) over Jack and Orlando....so....yes, I guess you could say that I'm pulling for Jack cuz I love Johnny Depp...but it really goes much deeper than that...cuz the first time I saw POTC/COTBP I was not a huge Johnny fan...I had heard of him but had not seen anything with him in it before....and by the time POTC was over I was screaming for Jack and Liz to be together...it wasn't until I had watched POTC for the third time that I fell absolutely head over heels for Johnny....
SO what I'm trying to say is even though I am a big Johnny fan...that's not the only reason I believe that Jack and Liz are the better couple...you say we twist things in the movies to make it all Jack/Elizabeth...but I don't see it that way...many of the clues and symbols are staring us right in the face....
And, I'm still believing what Keira said: "well, the relationship between Elizabeth and Will is kind of, well, actually falling apart. Meanwhile, something rather 'interesting' is developing between her and Jack Sparrow.".....