Most Powerful Mutant

Originally posted by Horrificus
That is a different kind of mutation. She was not born with the Pheonix Force. She may have had some characteristic that allowed for the transformation, but she was not born with that potential power IN HER, as other Omega's are.

If we are talking about power that enters a mutant from an outside source, as being part of the group in question, then you opne the flood gates for other characters to join the ranks. Such as Hulk, Molecule Man, etc. Because it can, and has been argued that their conditions cannot be duplicated exactly in other humans, because these guys had a certain characteristic, or flaw or asset in their genetic make-up that worked hand in hand with whatever mutated them.

Youre again not up to date with continuity which is why you are getting confused here. Jeans mutant power is to wield the Phoenix Force. She always been a Phoenix , however she has not always wielded cosmic power levels. That came with time and training. It is established in continuity as a mutation to be a Phoenix. A mutation that only certain omegas can realise.

This thread is about mutants and their powers. Not being the threadmaker, you cannot tailor it to exclude Jean. Jean as Phoenix applies.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Horrificus
That is a different kind of mutation. She was not born with the Pheonix Force. She may have had some characteristic that allowed for the transformation, but she was not born with that potential power IN HER, as other Omega's are.

If we are talking about power that enters a mutant from an outside source, as being part of the group in question, then you opne the flood gates for other characters to join the ranks. Such as Hulk, Molecule Man, etc. Because it can, and has been argued that their conditions cannot be duplicated exactly in other humans, because these guys had a certain characteristic, or flaw or asset in their genetic make-up that worked hand in hand with whatever mutated them.

^^^ a thinking man's awnser . props to you.

Originally posted by Horrificus
That is a different kind of mutation. She was not born with the Pheonix Force. She may have had some characteristic that allowed for the transformation, but she was not born with that potential power IN HER, as other Omega's are.

She was born with such potential, that was her potential all along, to wield the Phoenix Force.

and btw I made this thread a while ago:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=419703

no bigge though 😉

Sorry for the copy 😄 😮

Without including Jean, the most powerful mutant on panel would be Jim Jaspers. He was a reality warper of a greater scale than the Scarlet Witch. His reality warp was conclusively universal and it was continually growing, threatening the multiverse itself at full expansion.

In comparison Roma said Wandas reality warp was global. Even you argued that it was universal, her reality warp never affected anywhere outside of 616 directly and never threatened to unlike Jasper's. The Chaos Wave was something Wandas warp triggered by accidentally causing a dimensional tear whilst warping reality. Thats different.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Without including Jean, the most powerful mutant on panel would be Jim Jaspers. He was a reality warper of a greater scale than the Scarlet Witch. His reality warp was conclusively universal and it was continually growing, threatening the multiverse itself at full expansion.

In comparison Roma said Wandas reality warp was global. Even you argued that it was universal, her reality warp never affected anywhere outside of 616 directly and never threatened to unlike Jasper's. The Chaos Wave was something Wandas warp triggered by accidentally causing a dimensional tear whilst warping reality. Thats different.

No , INCLUDING Jean, Jim Jaspers is the most powerful mutant.

bio stats on Jean Grey's powers for GalacticStorm

Powers
Jean Grey possessed telepathic powers enabling her to read minds, project her thoughts into the minds of others, initiate astral travel, and mentally stun opponents with pure psionic force, among other talents. She also possessed telekinesis, allowing her to levitate and manipulate objects and others, generate force fields, fly, and stimulate heat molecules to generate concussive blasts.
Her powers were magnified to near-infinite levels while she served as an avatar for the cosmic Phoenix Force. She was able to manipulate matter and energy on a molecular scale, although this varied on the Force's status and how much power it chose to allocate to her.

bio stats for the Phonix Force

Powers
The Phoenix Force is an immortal, indestructible, and mutable manifestation of the prime universal force of life, derived from the psyches of all living beings. In its natural state, this life-cycle is enough to sustain the Force. However, in order to manifest itself on the physical plane, the Force must tap into the near limitless source of energy provided by life-force reserved for future generations, thus denying them existence. The Force can wield this energy to project beams of immense concussive force, as well as transmigrate throughout time and space by folding its energy back into itself, causing it to collapse akin to a black hole, then it reforms itself upon reaching its destination, like the Phoenix of Earth legend.
While possessing a human host, the Force is able to augment any super-powers they have to vastly higher levels.

source ...
http://www.marvel.com/universe/Phoenix_Force (marvel's own site, can't argue with this)

Originally posted by complexbrother

^^^ a thinking man's awnser . props to you.

Considering that his opening statement was conclusively wrong, i wouldnt say so myself. Jean was always the Phoenix. Its not some outside force that possesses her sometimes, its her mutant power to wield the Phoenix Force. The degree of her power is dependent on whether she is needed to perform Phoenix work. However she is and always has been a Phoenix.

Originally posted by complexbrother
bio stats on Jean Grey's powers for GalacticStorm

Her powers were magnified to near-infinite levels while she served as an avatar for the cosmic Phoenix Force. She was able to manipulate matter and energy on a molecular scale, although this varied on the Force's status and how much power it chose to allocate to her.

It's in writing now dammit , the b*tch is a mid to high tp-er . The rest is up to the puppeteer pulling her strings. The 'Jenova' to her Sephiroth (though putting Jeans name next to Sephiroths is a sin to me)

Originally posted by grey fox
No , INCLUDING Jean, Jim Jaspers is the most powerful mutant.

Nope. Its stated that to be a Phoenix is the ultimate mutation. Dont let your well known hatred for the character cause you to state falsities. 🙂

Jaspers greatest feat was universal, however he had the potential to gradually affect the rest of the multiverse. Jean has manipulated an entire reality down to its component parts just like that within the palm of her hand.

Jean has cut away at the very substance of time itself, amputating the future thereby putting Eternity on his death bed. A situation she later rectified. No being has ever been shown to be able to do that.

Jean contained the proven multiversal power of the M'kraan crystal.

There is no mutant greater than Jean Grey my friend. 😄

Originally posted by grey fox
It's in writing now dammit , the b*tch is a mid to high tp-er . The rest is up to the puppeteer pulling her strings. The 'Jenova' to her Sephiroth (though putting Jeans name next to Sephiroths is a sin to me)

Jean Grey is the avatar (look up the definition of the word) of the Phoenix Force. She is literally the Force in physical form. The Phoenix Force bio goes some way to illustrate this recent on panel clarification where it states that she is a part of the Force itself.

Think of her as an MBody of it.

How does this in any way change what ive said? 🙂

The bio supports that Jean is a Phoenix, she always has the potential to wield the power but wielding it is dependent on her being needed. Regardless its still her mutation to woeld this power. Changes not a thing.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Nope. Its stated that to be a Phoenix is the ultimate mutation. Dont let your well known hatred for the character cause you to state falsities. 🙂

Jaspers greatest feat was universal, however he had the potential to gradually affect the rest of the multiverse. Jean has manipulated an entire reality down to its component parts just like that within the palm of her hand.

Jean has cut away at the very substance of time itself, amputating the future thereby putting Eternity on his death bed. A situation she later rectified. No being has ever been shown to be able to do that.

Jean contained the proven multiversal power of the M'kraan crystal.

There is no mutant greater than Jean Grey my friend. 😄

Bah , my petty hatred is put aside for this. The phoenix is the ultimate potential you say , she is what every mutant should become correct.

A simple yes or no will do.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Jean Grey is the avatar (look up the definition of the word) of the Phoenix Force. She is literally the Force in physical form. The Phoenix Force bio goes some way to illustrate this recent on panel clarification where it states that she is a part of the Force itself.

Think of her as an MBody of it.

How does this in any way change what ive said? 🙂

The bio supports that Jean is a Phoenix, she always has the potential to wield the power but wielding it is dependent on her being needed. Regardless its still her mutation to woeld this power. Changes not a thing.

No it states she can wield the power of a SEPERATE ENTITY. Hell if were going to include phoenix why not include Ghost rider. He uses a 'separate entity' to enhance his powers.

Originally posted by grey fox
Bah , my petty hatred is put aside for this. The phoenix is the ultimate potential you say , she is what every mutant should become correct.

A simple yes or no will do.

The Phoenix is stated to be the "ultimate mutation" and heralded as the endpoint in evolution. That is why only OMEGA mutants can successfully wield the power. Omegas have the potential to reach this endpoint only a few omegas such as Jean, Quentin and Rachel have realized this potential.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The Phoenix is stated to be the "ultimate mutation" and heralded as the endpoint in evolution. That is why only OMEGA mutants can successfully wield the power. Omegas have the potential to reach this endpoint only a few omegas such as Jean, Quentin and Rachel have realized this potential.

Then that's a lie.

Why ?

She's not the most powerful.

Jim Jaspers can become OMNIVERSAL. Jean Cannot. Jim Jaspers was simply restricted by two things. Time and plot.

If he had simply waited and bided his time then he would have literally become the worlds most powerful mutant in existence.

Originally posted by grey fox
No it states she can wield the power of a SEPERATE ENTITY. Hell if were going to include phoenix why not include Ghost rider. He uses a 'separate entity' to enhance his powers.

It doesnt state that at all. It makes out Phoenix to be a separate entity whilst at the same time stating that Jean is a part of the Phoenix Force itself.

What youre not understanding is that Jean is an MBody of the Force, its favoured physical form, but not its only physical form. She is not the sum total of the Force, but its prime part, nevertheless that is why the bio has a story for the Phoenix Force whilst taking time out to note that Jean is actually a part of the Force. 🙂

Originally posted by grey fox
Then that's a lie.

Why ?

She's not the most powerful.

Jim Jaspers can become OMNIVERSAL. Jean Cannot. Jim Jaspers was simply restricted by two things. Time and plot.

If he had simply waited and bided his time then he would have literally become the worlds most powerful mutant in existence.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
It doesnt state that at all. It makes out Phoenix to be a separate entity whilst at the same time stating that Jean is a part of the Phoenix Force itself.

What youre not understanding is that Jean is an MBody of the Force, its favoured physical form, but not its only physical form. She is not the sum total of the Force, but its prime part, nevertheless that is why the bio has a story for the Phoenix Force whilst taking time out to note that Jean is actually a part of the Force. 🙂

You state that it is part of her , yet you continuously refer to it as a a 'it' therefore it being a SEPARATE ENTITY.

Originally posted by grey fox
Then that's a lie.

Why ?

She's not the most powerful.

Jim Jaspers can become OMNIVERSAL. Jean Cannot. Jim Jaspers was simply restricted by two things. Time and plot.

If he had simply waited and bided his time then he would have literally become the worlds most powerful mutant in existence.

Not through on panel demonstration my friend. What was speculated about the character and what he actually did on panel are two very different things. On panel he has performed nothing nearly on par with Jean.

At the end of the day, Jaspers power is limited to reality. Beyond reality he is completely powerless. Fury took advantage of this weakness and sniped him

Outside of reality and within Jean has power because she is one with the power that initiates reality. He is not on Jeans level my friend. Having the potential to do great things isnt enough.

I know youre British and youre repping for the Brit characters but this is going too far my friend 🙂