Most Powerful Mutant

Originally posted by kevdude
Well I don't know if id consider her a real 'mutant'. From how I understand it she is connected to the power force of creation itself. Jean has become what everyone on Earth will become someday. Nobody else except her sister is anywhere near her level. Humans by themselves that were birthed with there own powers, they are regular mutants, Frank being in that category is very impressive. And who is Jaspers?

Jean was born with those powers. She is literally a part of the Phoenix and always has been. THAT is continuity.

Just to restate my earlier example, see the Force as Multiple Man and Jean as one of its duplicates. As she is a part of the Force the power is her own, however as she is not the sum total of the Force the Force is in a way seperate at the same time and the greater froce can direct its smaller segment in the use of its power.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Jean absorbed the life forces of just Storm and Corsair and she used them to bind herself to reality so she could better apply her power. The rest of the X-men gave her spiritual help, i.e moral support and encouragement as she went about performing the feat.

The X-men present were Colossus, Wolverine, Storm, Cyclops and Banshee.

When are you going to STOP LYING!

"For ALL Her awesome Power, She CAN'T DO IT ALONE"

"AND THEN SUDDENLY, The SPIRITS of the X-MEN are WITH HER , GIVING of THEMSELVES AS STORM and CORSAIR GAVE"

Moral supprt my ASS!!!

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
If you want to try and argue the X-men gave anything but spiritual help then go ahead and make a fool of yourself,

WHO'S the FOOL Now my child?

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Given the multiversal power of the crystal, just how significant do you think the X-mens power contribution would be?

"multiversal power"?

I CHALLENGE You to find the word Multiversal on any page in X-Men v1 #108.

In Jean's vision of what COULD happen...it begins with Stars and Planets being pulled from their orbits

"Many Worlds and Many lives will be snuffed out in the twinkling of an eye"
Not exactly the Universe let alone the Multiverse.

"Solar Systems, Clusters, Galaxies, Mega-Galaxies...all plunge helplessly down the gravity well of the Neutron Galaxy"

Not exactly a Universe let alone the Multiverse.

THEN...their mass adding to it's gravity, gravity attracting more mass...UNTIL reality itself BEGINS to tear apart.

It will go from Solar Systems to Mega-Galaxies before reality BEGINS to tear.

And yet the bottom line is...that it will only INVOLVE a Single Universe.

"An explosion that scatters stellar mass out across a NEW Virgin Universe"

Exactly A UNIVERSE...but NOT a Multiverse.

Either READ COMICS, or STOP LYING!

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Even by your laughable interpretation,

Nothing is funnier than watching you TWISTING the On Panel STATEMENTS and swearing your getting away with it.

We all know you Pinocchio, I believe your nose just jabbed me in th eye.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Phoenix still would have done 99% of the work, the X-men would have barely registered on the power scales.

"XAVIER its CROWN and COLOSSUS its BASE"

"EACH X-MAN HAS a PLACE, EACH a purpose Greater than himself or herself"

SO ACCORDING to ISSUE itself, Straight from the WRITER'S Mouth.

XAVIER, COLOSSUS, WOLVERINE, KORSAIR, BANSHEE, CYCLOPS, STORM, and NIGHTCRAWLER, ALL GAVE their LIFE-FORCE to HELP Jean Knit the Lattice Back Together.

Go READ COMICS!!!

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
My interpretation

You mean your BULL shit

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
says Storm and Corsair gave their souls so she could bind herself to the physical plane,

You mean to AVOIID being ABSORBED and KILLED!

But nice try as usual.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
the rest of the X-men (Banshee, Cyclops and Colossus)

You mean,

XAVIER, COLOSSUS, WOLVERINE, KORSAIR, BANSHEE, CYCLOPS, STORM, and NIGHTCRAWLER.

Again, nice try Pino...

[QUOTE=7655224]Originally posted by GalacticStorm
[B] were their in spirit (as the comic states) and provided support and encouragement.

"comic states"?

AGAIN,

I CHALLENGE You, to find me where it says, they were there JUST "morally supporting" or the other GARBAGE of "encouragement"

I CHALLENGE YOU!!!

EVERYONE LOOK,

"The POWER of Her Friends Sing WITHIN Her, as she reenergizes the Lattice"

Does it say the "moral support and encouragement"?

Or, does it clearly say, "The POWER of HER FRIENDS sing WITHIN HER"?

Poor little Pino...

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Valiant effort Mr M. Allow me to put right the falsities you present and would love for everyone to subscribe to

For a start, Jim Jaspers did not ever create his own universe.

"I made everything actually, I made the sky, I made the Tiger the Lamb"

"I made the Stars"

Go READ COMICS PINO!

Err im sorry, if Jean's mutant powers are part of the Phoenix then include it if shes not then dont

Scarlet Witch, Jim Jaspers, Hyperstorm, Franklin Richards
In no order, these are the most powerful mutants IMO

Second Tier
Nate Grey (slightly lower than the top mutants but higher than the rest), Jean Grey, Cable, Proteus, Jamie Braddock
(possibly Vulcan and Mr. M also).

These are based on just raw power not "who would win in a fight".
I'm probably forgetting some people, but off the top of my head this is how I see it.

Originally posted by thedude1948
Scarlet Witch, Jim Jaspers, Hyperstorm, Franklin Richards
In no order, these are the most powerful mutants IMO

Second Tier
Nate Grey (slightly lower than the top mutants but higher than the rest), Jean Grey, Cable, Proteus, Jamie Braddock
(possibly Vulcan and Mr. M also).

These are based on just raw power not "who would win in a fight".
I'm probably forgetting some people, but off the top of my head this is how I see it.

I like your choices.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The Phoenix Force itself exists simulatneously outside of time and space as well as being one with it. Jeans power comes from her connection to the Force, it does not stem from reality like Jaspers, therefore theres no reason why she would be powerless outside of it.

The M'kraan crystal itself isnt outside of reality, but it is the access point to the white hot room which is.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Jamie Braddock's power derives from his manipulation of the quantum strings of reality, he has been shown to manipulate the WHR. It is not outside of reality.

True indeed X.

Jamie Braddock Warped the White Hot Room ("Heart of the Phoenix"😉 like child's play.

This is the WHR

Jamie teleported Rachel and Betsy to the Room, then after a short while he begins to Morph the White Hot Room

He appears flying by an image of Captain Britain

Jamie Braddock with total control of the WHR ("Heart of the Phoenix"😉

Jamie Warps it into a Crystal like object.

pointandlaugh White Hot Room

Originally posted by celestialdemon
I agree. Mutants are getting way too powerful. Gambit can control all forms of kinetic energy. Jubilee is going to start making atoms explode. Havok is going to have absolute control over cosmic energy. Leech is going to be able to absorb the powers of any being anywhere. It's getting ridiculous.

That's why I keep saying they need their own universe. They should be "shunted" out of regular MU. They may sell comic books, but they are actually hurting the other books. They reduce credibility, they overshadow any non-mutant characters that may be involved in a storyline with them.
Terrible.

Originally posted by thedude1948
Scarlet Witch, Jim Jaspers, Hyperstorm, Franklin Richards
In no order, these are the most powerful mutants IMO

Second Tier
Nate Grey (slightly lower than the top mutants but higher than the rest), Jean Grey, Cable, Proteus, Jamie Braddock
(possibly Vulcan and Mr. M also).

These are based on just raw power not "who would win in a fight".
I'm probably forgetting some people, but off the top of my head this is how I see it.

I like this list also, but am still bugged by the whole Scarlet Witch fiasco.
Terrible.

Other than that, good list.

Ive already handled the M'kraan crystal issue so theres no need for me to tackle you point for point anymore.

The X-men that gave their life forces to Jean were Storm and Corsair. That was as stated so she could bind herself to reality and perform the task.

When going about performing the task she lost heart and as stated it says she realized she couldnt do it alone. It says the the spirits of the X-men were with her and they gave of themselves just like Storm and Corsair gave of themselves. You can either interpret that they similarly lent a hand by being with her there in spirit and encouraging her ("the spirits of the X-men are with her"😉 or they to gave their life forces so she could bind herself to reality and perform her task.

Either way the power of the X-men accounts for little when helping in a multiversal effort. Theres no debating that. Those combined X-men couldnt blow up a planet with their energies let alone bind a multiversal or even universal power.

As for the crystal being universal as you would so love for members here to believe, any comic reader with half decent comic knowledge knows that the current status of the crystal is multiversal. It is the multiversal nexus of realities. It got retconned into this status during the Legion Quest Saga. That point is not debatable. That retcon means that Jean contained a multiversal power not just a universal power as was the crystals status back in its 70's debut.

The crystal when its power is unleashed in one universes unless stopped by a Phoenix, eventually goes on to collapse the entire multiverse before resetting it. There arent many alternate crystals in each reality there is ONE. So Phoenix by containing its power first and foremost saved 616, but ultimately saved the multiverse.

As for the Jim Jaspers issue, he warped the reality of a universe. That is fact. He never went to a void and started creating his own reality from scratch. With that in mind when he says he made the stars and so on, what he did in reality is twist a reality to coincide with his own vision. Not as impressive as Phoenixes top feats. 👇

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
As for the Jim Jaspers issue, he warped the reality of a universe. That is fact. He never went to a void and started creating his own reality from scratch.

"He is lonely, but he is also GOD

"I made everything actually, I made the sky, I made the Tiger the Lamb"

"I made the Stars"

Mad Jim jaspers in a Universe he CREATED

Jaspers in a reality he warped. Dont try it. I will post the entire issue and leave people in doubt of your hypocrisy. Dont EVER even suggest that i misrepresent scans. You have been shown on several occasions to be guilty of doing so. Poor show Emmie 👇 Only a comic debate. 🙁

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
He never went to a void and started creating his own reality from scratch.

not to mention when he went to a void all he did was get his freaking brains blown out😄 as he had no power there 😖mart:

Originally posted by manjaro
not to mention when he went to a void all he did was get his freaking brains blown out😄

😂

Originally posted by Galan777
Mr. M is powerful but realistically his feats are nowhere near Molecule Man's, he really hasnt been too impressive thus far.

and Franklyn at full potential=Celestial level

To date Franklyn has done much more on pannel, thats why he is my top dog 😉.....

theres no way in hell franklin is nearly as powerful as a celstial nothing short of a cosmic entitty is as powerful as a celestial. however he may be more powerful than mr. m im not sure could someone scan some of franklins feats

Originally posted by manjaro
not to mention when he went to a void all he did was get his freaking brains blown out😄 as he had no power there 😖mart:

Jim Jaspers had to be given a Plot Device to be stopped, that would be the FURY.

The FURY was created by Jaspers himself:

Jim Jaspers cannot be defeated or killed by any Physical means, Only the Fury, which was indestructible and created by Jaspers Himself, after absorbing a Computer the size of a Cave, was able to kill Jim

Here the FURY blasted Jim down to the skeletal form

Jim Remakes himself in an instant and then with a gesture warps the FURY into a ball

"A MONTH AGO, the transformation would have KILLED IT"

BUT, after "absorbing a Computer the size of a Cave, it LEARNS, ADAPTS"

The FURY was created by Jim to be indestructible too though, and NOW that it has the intelligence of a Computer the size of a Cave, even he can't kill it (Plot Device)

"The Asylum-GOD tries to Kill the THING that CANNOT DIE"

The FURY realizes "Jim can Alter reality at Whim, what if, there were NO Reality to Altar"

So the FURY, teleports both Jaspers and itself to UN-SPACE

The Result

The FURY lasted long enough in a battle with Mad Jim, because it was designed by him to be unstoppable and indestructible, except by himself of course, but after absorbing the Intelligence of a Computer the size of a Cave, even Jim couldn't kill it (Plot Device)

This was the only weakness that Alan Moore (the Writer) was able to give Jim Jaspers.

In other words, ONLY the FURY (which was created by Jim) can or could defeat him.

After a long fight, the FURY killed Jim but was weakend by Jaspers, Captain Britain and company took advantage and killed the weakened FURY.

i hear you dude..no need to get into all this with me. thats why Jaspers is way up there on my personal list...the point was to illustrate that Jaspers just warped an already existing universe to his liking, not build one from scratch..as that would require him going to a place where matter didnt exist..and as you can see per the scans you've so generously provided that is a place where he is powerless. so no one is doubting the fury's skill, or Jaspers vast powers...well at least im not

Originally posted by manjaro
i hear you dude..no need to get into all this with me. thats why Jaspers is way up there on my personal list...the point was to illustrate that Jaspers just warped an already existing universe to his liking, not build one from scratch..as that would require him going to a place where matter didnt exist..and as you can see per the scans you've so generously provided that is a place where he is powerless. so no one is doubting the fury's skill, or Jaspers vast powers...well at least im not

I agree.

After reviewing the series, I realized he could create a Universe but from quantum strings (smallest known particles) already there.

I just wanted to make it known that only the FURY (for the many reasons I posted) was able to take him to un-space.

Anyone else would have been cremated by Jaspers.