Originally posted by Boris
I didn't feel any need, praying doesn't have any effect whatsoever, it's been proven.If you want to do something for your grandmother, talk to her, laugh with her, be with her, help her out or just listen to anything she has to say, doing these things will actually do some good for your grandmother.
I've lost lots of my family to cancer so I know what your going through. But believe me, prayer does nothing, it might give YOU hope, but will do nothing to benefit your grandmother.
and this makes you how much better than fred phelps?
Originally posted by inimalist
well, Ive been told, I guess I'll let you get back to mocking someone who is in mourning
Eh, no? Where did I mock her? I gave her advice since I've lived through it many times.
I simply stated that praying doesn't do anything as it has been proven. You can do things that will actually help the person rather than wasting your time futilely praying.
Originally posted by Boris
Eh, no? Where did I mock her? I gave her advice since I've lived through it many times.I simply stated that praying doesn't do anything as it has been proven. You can do things that will actually help the person rather than wasting your time futilely praying.
Why do you make statements that you cannot substantiate? You don't even attempt to support what you say. You are perhaps one of the only people on this forum that makes no effort at all to back what you say. It has not been proven that praying does not do anything that is simply your opinion.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Why do you make statements that you cannot substantiate? You don't even attempt to support what you say. You are perhaps one of the only people on this forum that makes no effort at all to back what you say. It has not been proven that praying does not do anything that is simply your opinion.
😂
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Why do you make statements that you cannot substantiate? You don't even attempt to support what you say. You are perhaps one of the only people on this forum that makes no effort at all to back what you say. It has not been proven that praying does not do anything that is simply your opinion.
I could post links to studies and experiments on the real power of prayer but if you want to find out about them you can search for them yourself. I recommend Galtons studies, the American Heart Journal and the Templeton foundation's study.
Originally posted by Boris
You support what you say through bible quotes and bullshit Christian websites, they don't really count... really. In fact when you reference them you lose credibility.I could post links to studies and experiments on the real power of prayer but if you want to find out about them you can search for them yourself. I recommend Galtons studies, the American Heart Journal and the Templeton foundation's study.
what control do the studies use to show that the lack of effect from prayer is due to the lack of power of prayer rather than God just ignoring those prayers?
Originally posted by Boris
Since when did God ignore prayers?
doesn't matter
God is an impossible variable to control for, thus any study of him must be highly conservative.
The absolute best you can say about prayer is that, at this point, there is no data that supports the idea that prayer can have an effect on the material world, nor is there any evidence of a mechanism by which this would work.
I am happy that you found your belief structure, but now you are talking about science, which you cannot confuse with ardent atheism
Originally posted by inimalist
doesn't matterGod is an impossible variable to control for, thus any study of him must be highly conservative.
The absolute best you can say about prayer is that, at this point, there is no data that supports the idea that prayer can have an effect on the material world, nor is there any evidence of a mechanism by which this would work.
I am happy that you found your belief structure, but now you are talking about science, which you cannot confuse with ardent atheism
No, you're incorrect. You're after saying that God can ignore prayer but Christians believe that God will answer all prayers. You've contradicted yourself.
At this point, there is evidence to support the fact that praying for someone will do nothing. It might make a person feel good, but thats about the limit of it's usefulness.
Atheism and science are pretty close, considering that if it was scientifically proven that God did exist I would become a Christan/Muslim/Jew, whatever in an instant.
Studies on the medical effects of prayer have not generally shown it to be effective. And if someone thinks that pointing this out makes me or Boris or anyone else "like Fred Phelps," that person is acting like an idiot. inimalist, are you arguing that prayer does have power, it's just that God ignores prayers at a rate that makes it seem like it doesn't? Because that argument ... I'm not sure what to say about that argument, but I love it. It's so ... I don't know.
Here's a question that might seem mean-spirited, but isn't intended to be: Why? Why should people pray for your grandmother? Do you think, even positing a Christian god, that it will help? That is, do you think God is going to say, "Well I was going to ignore this woman who was praying for her grandmother, but now that she's gotten a lot of strangers on the internet to join her, I guess I have no choice but to heal her"? You don't have to answer if you don't want to, but I am genuinely curious about your rationale.
Re: Fellow Christians needend!
Originally posted by Wolf_Girl15As a cancer suvivor and a Christian I'll Pray for you and your family.
My grandma was just diagnosed with cancer for the second time, I want to ask all Christians out there to pray for her, I love my grandma, God got my dad through 3 kinds of cancer, and heart surgery, please please pray for her. Please just post that you will pray for her, and I thank you in advance.
Originally posted by Boris
No, you're incorrect. You're after saying that God can ignore prayer but Christians believe that God will answer all prayers. You've contradicted yourself.At this point, there is evidence to support the fact that praying for someone will do nothing. It might make a person feel good, but thats about the limit of it's usefulness.
lol
ok, so in an experiment, there are normally many possible explanations to questions. When there are other possible explanations, there has to be a control in the experiment that shows that the reason for any effect cannot be explained by anything else. There is no way to make any control about the motivation, action or will of God, therefore there is no reason to control for God. What is very strange (and telling of your knowledge of science) is that you seem to think I am supporting a Christian god, when the statement that something is unfalsifiable, to any credible scientist, if the most telling refutation of a concept. Something that is unfalsifiable is so outside of the realm of science it is just assumed that it cannot exist in a universe that is dictated by real laws.
Also, you cannot prove a negative. There will never be objective evidence that something doesn't work.
oh, and thanks for the psychology lesson 😉
BTW: Your interpretation of Christian prayer is flawed. Nobody can believe that all prayers can be answered, and most if not all church leaders will support this. The main reason is that it is demonstrably false (a Christian can pray to instantly be flung 50 feet into the air and it wont happen). A secondary reason would be that, were it necessary that God answered all of the prayers of man, God becomes impotent and basically the servant of man, rather than the other way around.
Originally posted by Boris
Atheism and science are pretty close, considering that if it was scientifically proven that God did exist I would become a Christan/Muslim/Jew, whatever in an instant.
wow, thats not arrogant at all
clearly if something were true, I would believe it 🙂
Science is by definition agnostic. It is impossible to prove a negative.
Look up falsifiability, and understand why it is more damning of God to say that he is unfalsifiable than to say he doesn't exist. Then come talk to me about science, k?
Originally posted by Gregory
Studies on the medical effects of prayer have not generally shown it to be effective. And if someone thinks that pointing this out makes me or Boris or anyone else "like Fred Phelps," that person is acting like an idiot. inimalist, are you arguing that prayer does have power, it's just that God ignores prayers at a rate that makes it seem like it doesn't? Because that argument ... I'm not sure what to say about that argument, but I love it. It's so ... I don't know.
no, I don't actually believe in God
however, there are serious methodological errors with all of the studies that study prayer. There are thousands that have been done by Christians that show positive effects that are inadmissible for the same reasons.
The reason it makes you like fred phelps is the absolute inappropriateness of the statement. Do you REALLY, REALLY, REALLY think that someone who believes in God and is going trough an emotionally traumatic experience in their life, reaching out to strangers on a message board, cares that you have a scientific paper that says everything she believes is a lie? Gee, the compassionate atheist.