Originally posted by Adam_PoE
That is not weird?
Not to me, I guess what one considered weird is subjective... weird to me is a guy who gets his jollies from covering himself in Vaseline and wearing a rubber glove on his head. A gay guy denying his true self due to outside pressures is just unfortunate in my eyes.
Originally posted by Robtard
Not weird per se, just a gay man denying his sexuality due to religious pressure.
Uh..no...it's far more than that...he didn't just lie about his sexuality for years, he also attacked Gay people and was one of the largest influences against Gay Rights. He even went so far as to compare homosexuals to murderers.
He is a twisted man with a huge inferiority complex
He is definately wierd...he hates himself. You can see that. He hates what he is, otherwise he would not have judged and attacked Gay people the way he did.
"Haggard Leaves Colorado Springs For 'New Beginning'" The Associated PressDenver, Colorado
—The Rev. Ted Haggard moved Wednesday from his longtime home in Colorado Springs to Phoenix, where the disgraced minister will join the same church that helped fallen televangelist Jim Bakker.Haggard, 50, resigned as president of the National Association of Evangelicals last year, after a former male prostitute alleged a three-year cash-for-sex relationship. The man also said he saw Haggard use methamphetamine. Haggard confessed to undisclosed "sexual immorality" and said he bought meth but never used it.
As part of his severance package from New Life Church, a 14,000-member congregation he started in his basement, Haggard agreed to leave Colorado Springs, a city he helped make an evangelical center.
"When he moved out of town today, there was a kind of relief on the part of the church that life can get back to normal," said the Rev. H.B. London, one of three ministers overseeing what has been called Haggard's "restoration." "For the Haggards, it is the beginning of a huge new chapter. It's a brand new start for them, the beginning of a new beginning."
Before his fall, Haggard was an emerging voice in evangelical politics. He took part in White House conference calls and fought to broaden the movement's agenda to include environmental issues.
In Phoenix, Haggard plans to pursue a graduate degree in counseling at an area university, said London, who heads an outreach effort for pastors through Focus on the Family, the Colorado Springs-based conservative Christian group. London was not sure where Haggard would be studying. The Haggards and two of their children - another three are grown - are expected to live in a home made available by a supporter.
Ted and Gayle Haggard have ties to Phoenix. The couple spent three weeks at secular treatment center in the area after the scandal broke. And the Pentecostal church they will attend, Phoenix First Assembly of God, is led by the Rev. Tommy Barnett, another member of Haggard's restoration team.
Bakker, the televangelist, found refuge at Barnett's church after being released from federal prison for bilking supporters of $158 million. He volunteered at a Los Angeles church mission run by Barnett's son.
London said he believes Barnett told his congregation Sunday that Haggard would be joining them. Barnett and officials at his church did not return calls seeking comment.
Haggard faces a test in going from being on the pulpit to becoming just another face in the pews, London said.
"Once you were in charge of a megachurch and a mega-staff and making mega-decisions, now your main decision is where you're going to school, where to eat and what you're going to do on your day off," London said.
The Rev. Mike Ware, a member of a separate panel of pastors that investigated the claims against Haggard, said: "We've all been in agreement that Ted should have a fresh start, gain some fresh perspective, and it's very difficult for them to get the kind of healing they need staying in Colorado Springs."
Ware said Haggard is continuing to receive counseling, which officials said will include an exploration of his sexuality. Haggard has told his advisers he does not believe he's gay.
As part of a severance package that will pay Haggard through 2007, Haggard agreed not only to leave town but to refrain from discussing the scandal publicly. He did not return messages Wednesday. Haggard's most recent annual salary was about $138,000, benefits excluded.
His former congregation has felt the sting of the scandal. Since Haggard's fall, attendance has fallen 20 percent and giving has dropped 10 percent, said Rob Brendle, an associate pastor. As a result of the decline, the church laid off 44 employees, or 12 percent of its work force.
Originally posted by Nellinator
Not so good, in that people lost jobs because of this. I also am impressed that he kept a salary of only $138 000. Most churches that size would be paying more.
Bullshit. No one but liars and hypocrits lost their jobs. Don't even begin to turn it into that. He kept his money because he is the one who, hypocritically, found this group[. And he has every right to keep sucking off it...that is, until those being sucked off of wake up.
Originally posted by Devil KingDo you know the names of those that lost their jobs? Do you know whether they were hypocrits or not? I severely doubt it. His church doing badly is not necessarily a good thing unless you can justify that without bias. The stuff about money doesn't make sense because he has a reasonable salary.
Bullshit. No one but liars and hypocrits lost their jobs. Don't even begin to turn it into that. He kept his money because he is the one who, hypocritically, found this group[. And he has every right to keep sucking off it...that is, until those being sucked off of wake up.
Originally posted by AllianceYes, it probably is a good thing that the truth came out. But people losing jobs because of his hypocrisy is a bad thing. Not everyone in that church is as disagreeable to you as you seem to be implying.
It is good if people learn the hypocrisay and dilusion of the evangelical's stance on homosexuality.Its about marginalization, which is excatly what needs to happen to similar Christian groups.
Originally posted by Nellinator
Yes, it probably is a good thing that the truth came out. But people losing jobs because of his hypocrisy is a bad thing. Not everyone in that church is as disagreeable to you as you seem to be implying.
..and people can find jobs elsewhere, thousands do everyday. I'm sure evangelicals feel tremendous amounts of sympathy for homosexuals who left communites or states because they couldn't get equal healtcare as any other employee.
I know some grad students who outed their professor who was forging experimental data, loosing years of studies and a good portion, if not all, of their careers in science. THAT is something to feel sad about. I'm not really obliged to feel sympathy for people who lost their jobs because a church downsized under its own hypocrisy. This Haggard situation is nothing but an embarrassment and a very welcome wake up call.
Originally posted by Nellinator
Do you know the names of those that lost their jobs? Do you know whether they were hypocrits or not? I severely doubt it. His church doing badly is not necessarily a good thing unless you can justify that without bias. The stuff about money doesn't make sense because he has a reasonable salary.
Yes, I do. It was Frank in accounting, Betty in sales and Marcia the VP of bullshit. His church doing badly is a fantastic thing. Because it's a organization. It isn't a religion, it isn't a church. It's a ****ing buisness. And that's what all those megachurches are. They're big buisness.
As for a reasonable salary, I don't buy it. The President apparently only make 100 grand a year. You think that's really happening too?
Originally posted by FeceMan
Noddy-nod to this. Paul commands us to expel those who are immoral from the church.
The basis for it's existence is immoral and hypocritical.
Originally posted by Alliance
Ted Haggard led them in their ignorance.
Whether or not you want to paint the 14,000 people who attend his church as ignorant or not is your own affair, but in truth since he was the one preaching against homosexuality and having a homosexual affair...he is the only one able to be called a hypocrite.
And I agree with the first two posters on this page, his mistake and firing is unfortunate (but deserved) but should not spill over to the other workers losing their jobs.
Here's a little perspective from the other side:
My father in law is an usher in our church. (now head usher and facilites manager, actually.)
My brother and sister in law run the childrens ministry. (grades 1-6)
My wife is on the worship team. (that's choir to the unchurched.) 😛
I myself work in childrens ministry, do landscaping and gardening, have a small group for teenagers with my wife, and have just recently been offered to take over as head usher.
All of us are volunteers.
We aren't paid. We work hard because we care about what we do. Our church is only about 300 people, but if it grows to around 1,000 or 2,000 people in the next couple years, we'll need to hire a few full time people.
I can only guess as to the size of the staff for larger churches that are commonly called "mega-churches".... 5,000 members plus.
Now if our pastor made some big mistake, did something wrong and was fired, how in the heck would it be fair for us or anybody else who works their to be fired as well?
Regardless of how you feel about our beliefs, you know that accountability means that the person responsible for the mistake/problem/etc... is the one that should pay for it.
Originally posted by Devil KingYou should tell that to Pastor Jackson Senyonga from Uganda, Africa.
Yes, I do. It was Frank in accounting, Betty in sales and Marcia the VP of bullshit. His church doing badly is a fantastic thing. Because it's a organization. It isn't a religion, it isn't a church. It's a ****ing buisness. And that's what all those megachurches are. They're big buisness.
His church is about 30,000 people in a stadium that are bused in.
He'd get a kick out of that statement. 😛
Originally posted by sithsaber408
You should tell that to Pastor Jackson Senyonga from Uganda, Africa.His church is about 30,000 people in a stadium that are bused in.
He'd get a kick out of that statement. 😛
I'm sure he would get a kick out of a lot of what I say. I'm sure he laughs all the way to the bank at a lot of what people like me say.
But we aren't talking about his church. I'm sure it is small potatoes compared to the American religious industry.
Originally posted by sithsaber408
All of us are volunteers.
You mean to tell me you don't get paid to pass that collection plate around?
Originally posted by sithsaber408
Whether or not you want to paint the 14,000 people who attend his church as ignorant or not is your own affair, but in truth since he was the one preaching against homosexuality and having a homosexual affair...he is the only one able to be called a hypocrite.
I don't know. I don't know how you could sit there and worship one of the US's most evil men and not question your faith after he is exposed and the cheating, lying, hypocrite that he is. Maybe hypocrite is the wrong word, but something is wrong there.
Originally posted by sithsaber408
And I agree with the first two posters on this page, his mistake and firing is unfortunate (but deserved) but should not spill over to the other workers losing their jobs.
Excuse me, but I didn't fire them. Their own CHURCH released them. Thats not my moral problem, thats the Churches. If they felt the same way, they would have raised the funds to maintain their positions.
However, the Church, like most employers, placed economics over the needs of the individual. Its the Churches problem.
Originally posted by sithsaber408
Here's a little perspective from the other side:
We're on sides now?
Originally posted by sithsaber408
Now if our pastor made some big mistake, did something wrong and was fired, how in the heck would it be fair for us or anybody else who works their to be fired as well?
Since you're not paid, I doubt they'd concern themselves. Obviously the Church is placing economics over someones own needs. Who cares if its fair. Life is not fair. Most people I know get fired because their corporations are downsized/streamlined/exported. I know a girl, both of here parents were laid off from thier jobs within a month of eachoter. Fair? Hell no. They were released becuase of someone elses decision. Its a fact of life and no one gets exeption.
Haggard builds an empire of lies and hate. If you choose to serve that organization, thats your own problem. You can get fired like anyone else. As the church/company collapeses, people loose their jobs.