The Living Tribunial Vs. The Monitor

Originally posted by leonidas
from my (imperfect) understanding of hypertime, i'm pretty sure the vertigo worlds ARE theoretically reachable through hypertime. i know you're aware of certain vertigo/dcu xovers. ie: books where the endless (vertigo imprint) have appeared in "dcu proper" books. near as i can tell, hypertime is supposed to tie in the [b]entire dcu.

if anyone can find an instance of something that is supposed to be outside of hypertime, i will of course gladly concede the point. 🙂 [/B]

Originally posted by Newjak
Um in the ned al though say and mean is in the end there is only the infinite meaning that in the end how can one infinite exist within another its impossible because infinite means no end so if something has an end it therefore can not be infinite, it must also mean that nothing else can exist outside of it because it being endless meaning nothing can be outside of it.

I agree that there can be an unlimited number of Multiverses and universes but none of them can be infinite.

Once again though it matters not because infinite can not be greater than another infinite.

So whether it is one with many universes and Multiverses or just one big one they can not be greater than the other.

So basically, you don't care how Marvel defines it, your logic is the right one.

Not in my book.

In the real World your logic makes sense, but in Marvel Comics there are different levels of Infinity.

AGAIN:

"Those are TWO LEVELS of INFINITY, of course there are ENDLESS MORE"

Please read the scans, otherwise your wasting my time, no offense honestly.

Originally posted by leonidas
i'm not necessarily saying one is grander than the other. everytime a new reality comes into being it is added to the hypertime line WITHIN the single dcu. everytime a new reality is added to the mu, a new UNIVERSE is born and added to the MULTIVERSE.

Your're kinda just speculating away there buddy.

Hypertime in DC Comics ACCORDING to DC Execs...

Hypertime has been infrequently utilized in DC titles subsequent to its introduction in The Kingdom, perhaps as a result of its chief architects and proponents, writers Mark Waid and Grant Morrison, working elsewhere in the comics industry (notably for Marvel Comics) .

While the concept was used in a multi-part story involving the Modern Age Superboy, many writers (such as "Teen Titans" writer Jay Faeber) found that their attempts to use Hypertime were either outright rejected or their stories severely altered to allow no attempt to further expand upon the concept.

In fact, promotional talks at the 2005 San Diego Comic-Con (July 2005), DC Executive Editor Dan Didio EFFECTIVELY disavowed the concept of hypertime,

Stating it would NO LONGER BE USED in Future DCU titles.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I'm not underestimating you friend, I just requested proof.

With every thought from every being, another [B]World is created (as in PLANET) I'll take that as an honest mistake.

This could be Worlds in other dimensions, not necessarily Universes.

Shuma Gorath was able to bring Earth into his dimension, but he's surely not Universal let alone in control of a Universe.

I need something more concrete, like my scans.

And the word Infinite is NOT mentioned once in that scan, so I'll take that as another honest mistake.

No offense Jun, but I'm not going to put much stock into scans that don't say Universes, Multi-verses or Infinite/Infinity. [/B]

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/2575/thespectrev40819mf3.jpg

Spectre refers to one as a universe, one he specifically put Stigmonus into. Stigmonus being an abstract that could affect multiple timelines at the same time.

Every thought and action has an alternate one of the bubbles.
That was said in the original scan.
Do you think that is confined merely to Earth, and merely to now?
Every thought in the history and future creates another universe.
A multiverse.

And you can see Spectre sending selves to each of the universe, even to change their courses as well.

Spectre talks about some of his duties in issue 27.

"I sail off across the Earth day after day, night after night, in more shapes and forms than I could ever count. Sail off to do what must be done in order to save the world one soul at a time."

"Across the Earth and across the galaxies. For my work isn't limited to one planet, one culture, one small vision of reality. The Hand of the Divine reaches across space and time... across all the limitless planes of existance. And where he points. I follow....

..cajoling and caressing, exhorting and harassing, comforting and terrifying, doing whatever needs to be done."

Originally posted by Mr Master
Your're kinda just speculating away there buddy.

Hypertime in DC Comics ACCORDING to DC Execs...

Hypertime has been infrequently utilized in DC titles subsequent to its introduction in The Kingdom, perhaps as a result of its chief architects and proponents, writers Mark Waid and Grant Morrison, working elsewhere in the comics industry (notably for Marvel Comics) .

While the concept was used in a multi-part story involving the Modern Age Superboy, many writers (such as "Teen Titans" writer Jay Faeber) found that their attempts to use Hypertime were either outright rejected or their stories severely altered to allow no attempt to further expand upon the concept.

In fact, promotional talks at the 2005 San Diego Comic-Con (July 2005), DC Executive Editor Dan Didio EFFECTIVELY disavowed the concept of hypertime,

Stating it would NO LONGER BE USED in Future DCU titles.

And Mark Waid and Grant Morrison are working for DC comics - Grant Morrison writing All Star Superman, and Seven Soldiers, as well as Authority and Wildcats, and Mark Waid is writing Legion of Superheros. Just to show you how off the info is.

Originally posted by Juntai
Yet they still use characters from Hypertime, such as Offspring, Waverider, and others.

And Mark Waid and Grant Morrison are working for DC comics - Grant Morrison writing All Star Superman, and Seven Soldiers, as well as Authority and Wildcats, and Mark Waid is writing Legion of Superheros. Just to show you how off the info is.

Michael Hutchison, a DC Writer and the Editor of the DC site.

Here is Michael Hutchison spitting the truth about Mark Waid and his displeasure with Hypertime, and why it's down the tubes as far as Continuity is concerned.

"Mark says that Hypertime is more than just alternate timelines and realities. Hypertime is like a river of time that occasionally deviates from its course and then splinters off and pours back into the main river. What this means in non-analogous terms is that alternate timelines may, at times, cross over with the main timestream, thus explaining any incongruities or inaccuracies. In Waid's own example of JLAY1, the explanation for the Blackhawks appearing is that they are from an alternate timeline which crossed over.

This is a load of crap. Period. I mean, logically it doesn't make ANY sense. More to the point, it opens up the floodgates for writers to explain away their sloppy research. In the examples above, Mark just didn't do his homework and now he's trying to find something to blame it on"

Fans: "How could the Seven Soldiers of Victory be in JLA: Year One?"

Waid: "Um…HYPERTIME!"

Fans: "Why is that Martian City name Z'onn Z'orr similar to J'onn J'onzz's name when his name was supposedly made up by Dr. Erdel?"

Morrison: "Um…HYPERTIME!"

Fans: "How come J'onn J'onzz now has a new origin? What about all of those great J'onn stories which were published building upon the 1980's series which are now rendered irrelevant?"

Ostrander: "Um…HYPERTIME!"

Bottomline, though Alternate storylines are being published, they are as ficticious (non-Canon) as Elseworlds titles.

that's interesting. i'll check it out. if it has been abolished i . . . find it hard to believe. perhaps it has been altered, because as jun said the linear are the guardians of hypertime and they are still present and active in the dcu. kismet -- whose role seems to be illuminating selected paths from varying diverging realities -- is apparently still alive and functioning.

i wonder what kind of in-book proof there is to substantiate the claim. calling it a load of crap, and EFFECTIVELY disavowing it, doesn't equate its being removed from continuity altogether. to the best of my knowledge there has never been a definite retcon of hypertime, which is essentially what would be needed.

his description and feeling toward hypertime sounds like a certain editor's feelings about a certain beyonder . . .

Originally posted by Mr Master
Michael Hutchison, a DC Writer and the Editor of the DC site.

Here is Michael Hutchison spitting the truth about Mark Waid and his displeasure with Hypertime, and why it's down the tubes as far as Continuity is concerned.

"Mark says that Hypertime is more than just alternate timelines and realities. Hypertime is like a river of time that occasionally deviates from its course and then splinters off and pours back into the main river. What this means in non-analogous terms is that alternate timelines may, at times, cross over with the main timestream, thus explaining any incongruities or inaccuracies. In Waid's own example of JLAY1, the explanation for the Blackhawks appearing is that they are from an alternate timeline which crossed over.

This is a load of crap. Period. I mean, logically it doesn't make ANY sense. More to the point, it opens up the floodgates for writers to explain away their sloppy research. In the examples above, Mark just didn't do his homework and now he's trying to find something to blame it on"

Fans: "How could the Seven Soldiers of Victory be in JLA: Year One?"

Waid: "Um…HYPERTIME!"

Fans: "Why is that Martian City name Z'onn Z'orr similar to J'onn J'onzz's name when his name was supposedly made up by Dr. Erdel?"

Morrison: "Um…HYPERTIME!"

Fans: "How come J'onn J'onzz now has a new origin? What about all of those great J'onn stories which were published building upon the 1980's series which are now rendered irrelevant?"

Ostrander: "Um…HYPERTIME!"

Bottomline, though Alternate storylines are being published, they are as ficticious (non-Canon) as Elseworlds titles.

http://www.dccomics.com/comics/?cm=6245
This issue.

Originally posted by Juntai
http://www.dccomics.com/comics/?cm=6245
This issue.

i don't really wanna drag this back into it, as i don't have the posts anymore. but dan dido, executive editor over mark waid disavowed the usage of hypertime. he went so far as to say that there would be no future uses of hypertime by his staff. Any persons using hypertime are doing so against the DC directive.

I'm paraphrasing but thats basically what the top dog said...

Originally posted by rotiart
i don't really wanna drag this back into it, as i don't have the posts anymore. but dan dido, executive editor over mark waid disavowed the usage of hypertime. he went so far as to say that there would be no future uses of hypertime by his staff. Any persons using hypertime are doing so against the DC directive.

I'm paraphrasing but thats basically what the top dog said...

Skeets pops in on Waverider.

"Here you are Waverider. The Seer of Hypertime. The Keeper of divergent timelines."

Waverider is actually in the comic investigating splinters and paradoxes being created in hypertime.

And for a laugh.
Let's point out who writes 52.
Geoff Johns, Grant Morrison, Greg Rucka, Mark Waid.

Originally posted by Juntai
Skeets pops in on Waverider.

"Here you are Waverider. The Seer of Hypertime. The Keeper of divergent timelines."

Waverider is actually in the comic investigating splinters and paradoxes being created in hypertime.

And for a laugh.
Let's point out who writes 52.
Geoff Johns, Grant Morrison, Greg Rucka, Mark Waid.

I got that Issue

Skeets is uber now 😈

I also feel bad for Ralph 🙁

Originally posted by Devil Lance
I got that Issue

Skeets is uber now 😈

I also feel bad for Ralph 🙁

"Of all the beings in creation, you are by far the most powerful."

Originally posted by Juntai
I liked seeing the Spectre in it too. I'm assuming this takes place inside of the 3 issue "Crisis Aftermath" series, when Crispus took a year to decide if he wanted to become God's Wrath or not.

"Of all the beings in creation, you are by far the most powerful."

Yeah Seeing the Spectre was cool I was Ralph got to deliver vengance on her though. 🙁

Do you think question is oing to die 😕

Originally posted by Juntai
Actually bro, Hypertime is mentioned in the newest issue of 52 that came out on Wednesday. 🙂
I actually read it when I left here earlier this morning.
Waverider is in the issue.

👆

the idea really is cool. too bad the editors don't like it. doesn't sound like some of the writers care very much though . . .

long live authorial license!

💃

Originally posted by Entity
Which higher power would win in this fight for realities?

True Living Tribunal