but back to what you were saying--- repression, yes for sure! 🙂 but it also really says a lot about Will's character as far as the value he places on things.
He clearly builds his value around several main factors--- how he is able to provide for/take care of the ones he loves (as he took care of his mother we assume, and probably her dying made him feel very inadequate), his physical prowess/manliness (as he models Norrington and other important figures in his life) and his honor.
Originally posted by Surreal_44
I've mentioned before that all three men are extremely similar. It's probably why they can't stand each other. 😄
cept jack sucks with a sword. Norrington would kick Jack's ass..Will would Kick everyones..
heck I think even Elizabeth would kick Jack's ass at sword fighting.
Jack is totally the underdog of the situation when it comes to fighting..but he makes up for it in wit..much like Odysseus
Originally posted by LovelyOne
cept jack sucks with a sword. Norrington would kick Jack's ass..Will would Kick everyones..heck I think even Elizabeth would kick Jack's ass at sword fighting.
ahhh... in a fair fight yes. Actually I'd say Elizabeth would have a higher chance of winning a fight with Jack than Will, cause she'd probably pull some piraty actions on Jack as well as some awesome sword fighting moves. 🙂
I almost feel like his behavior in the leaked script is like a suit or a role that he dons. That it doesn't quite seem to fit him. It could just be the nature of the rough draft, or the fact that this is an unfamilar side to Will Turner. But I'm wondering what part of himself he's most comfortable with. Is he entirely comfortable with being the honorable, stead fast William Turner, or is the darker portion his true self?
If you look at Jack and Elizabeth, it seems as though Elizabeth is most comfortable in her role as a pirate, that Jack begrudgingly is more complete with his inner good man. So where does that leave Will?
Also, it's rumored that Bootstrap Bill was with Jack on the Wicked Wench when Jack was branded a pirate. Would Will hold Jack responsible for stealing away his father?
That's what I'm asking of you, Kate, is to leave the triangle out of it, but it seems you are really leaning toward an explanation of Will's character that makes it better for a J/E ending.
I'm just asking you to think about it before you respond and see if that isn't what you are doing, even unconsciously.
Originally posted by katelovespirate
ahhh... in a fair fight yes. Actually I'd say Elizabeth would have a higher chance of winning a fight with Jack than Will, cause she'd probably pull some piraty actions on Jack as well as some awesome sword fighting moves. 🙂
I don't think either Elizabeth or Jack could win against each other because neither of them would fight fairly. They'd both cheat as though their life depended on it. Besides, I think it would be fair to say that Jack would be so distracted by Elizabeth that he'd make some pretty major mistakes. He seems to like it when she does something Pirate-like.
its funny actually..whilst Will/Norrie both fight for noble causes..Jack is the underdog quite literally..yet whilst the two men fight he's the one who actually uses brain and gets the key and ultimatley the goal flat out without all the nonsense. (nothing to do with the love triangle just something interesting about Jack as a character)
huh....links back to something on my mind..but I cant quite firgure it out...my brain is mushed after that argument earlier
Originally posted by savvysparrow
I almost feel like his behavior in the leaked script is like a suit or a role that he dons. That it doesn't quite seem to fit him. It could just be the nature of the rough draft, or the fact that this is an unfamilar side to Will Turner. But I'm wondering what part of himself he's most comfortable with. Is he entirely comfortable with being the honorable, stead fast William Turner, or is the darker portion his true self?If you look at Jack and Elizabeth, it seems as though Elizabeth is most comfortable in her role as a pirate, that Jack begrudgingly is more complete with his inner good man. So where does that leave Will?
Also, it's rumored that Bootstrap Bill was with Jack on the Wicked Wench when Jack was branded a pirate. Would Will hold Jack responsible for stealing away his father?
really? i wish they would show that scene. that would be so hott.
yeah its funny-- Jack is fighting his good side, Will is fighting his bad side.
I think something changed in Will when he made that oath to his father. When he made that oath, he knew he wasnt going to be able to fulfil it honorably probably. he's just tried to fulfil his bargain with Beckett honorably and look where it got him. So I think that oath is Wills decision that people are now going to be the most important thing for him--- a decision bolstered by various actions in 1. Its like he crossed a threshold and basically said, Whatever it takes to set you free, I'll do it.
Originally posted by Surreal_44
That's what I'm asking of you, Kate, is to leave the triangle out of it, but it seems you are really leaning toward an explanation of Will's character that makes it better for a J/E ending.I'm just asking you to think about it before you respond and see if that isn't what you are doing, even unconsciously.
I don't think Kate intentionally tried to sway the argument towards the J/E ending. Her analysis actually holds true to the Jungian way of looking at things, not a J/E bias. If you analyze Will's character in a psychological manner that's essentially what comes up. It may not initially seem to fit with how it is that Will conveys himself as a character, but it doesn't mean that it isn't there.
Originally posted by Surreal_44
Norrington ultimately gets the heart. That one's a clever one, no doubt about it. 😉
aye true..well its actually Beckett 😂
I'm just talking about the wheel scene and the key and actually getting to the locked the heart...but it also shows us something about Jack's character when he puts it in the JoD
and Noringtons when he finds it...Will though. um..I dunno what does it say about his character?
Originally posted by Surreal_44
Norrington ultimately gets the heart. That one's a clever one, no doubt about it. 😉
I think Norrington is the most underrated character in the series, and that his decision will play a critical role in AWE. It's a shame that AWE is only one movie, because his story warrants more time. The fact that he is culpable in Governor Swann's death is fascinating, not to mention what he is willing to sacrifice to regain his "honor"
Surreal, not at all, mate. I'm looking at each character standalone for the moment. 🙂 i'm anti-love triangle right now. i'm pissed we cant enjoy the movies without arguing.
can i go off on a norrington tangent for a minute? Promise of redemption. that sums him up. He is a brilliant leader. And he is also the character in the story who most clearly shows the human characteristic of uncanny endurance and survival. He's sunk to the lowest of the lows but he doesnt go under. its such a fasinated point of the story.
Originally posted by katelovespirate
really? i wish they would show that scene. that would be so hott.yeah its funny-- Jack is fighting his good side, Will is fighting his bad side.
I think something changed in Will when he made that oath to his father. When he made that oath, he knew he wasnt going to be able to fulfil it honorably probably. he's just tried to fulfil his bargain with Beckett honorably and look where it got him. So I think that oath is Wills decision that people are now going to be the most important thing for him--- a decision bolstered by various actions in 1. Its like he crossed a threshold and basically said, Whatever it takes to set you free, I'll do it.
Now that is INTERESTING! I never thought of his decision to free his father in that way, but now that you mention it, that totally makes a whole lot of sense. It's almost as though Bootstrap's freedom is similar to Jack's decision to sacrifice his soul for the Pearl. Initially I thought that Elizabeth's betrayal had pushed him into that realm, but I think you're right, it starts much earlier than that. He's sacrificing the good man he once was to achieve a goal. Is it a false ideal? Perhaps, it seems as though Bootstrap's fate is to remain cursed. More importantly, what would happen to Will if he were to fail in some manner to rescue his father?
Originally posted by LovelyOne
I know this isnt the place but does anyone find the scene where Jack realises the heart is missing oddly forshadowing and creepy?I really dont like the vibe of that scene
YES. that moment is wierd. its like, panic. its like the final clank of doom--- the heart is gone. thats it. done for.