Will is Hot

But I'm not sure that it is there, either. The analysis, and the way the conversation was turning, was becoming more about moving Will aside to better fit J/E.

It's obvious that you don't even realize it, so whatever. Not worth arguing over.

In the end, I don't think any of the characters will be happy with the idea of letting the Shadow side control them, so they will all learn to accept the shadow aspect of themselves, but then they will move back toward that middle-ground.

Yeah, I don't know much about Jung and his philosophies.

seriously right?? Its like he's lost his own heart

Originally posted by katelovespirate
Surreal, not at all, mate. I'm looking at each character standalone for the moment. 🙂 i'm anti-love triangle right now. i'm pissed we cant enjoy the movies without arguing.

can i go off on a norrington tangent for a minute? Promise of redemption. that sums him up. He is a brilliant leader. And he is also the character in the story who most clearly shows the human characteristic of uncanny endurance and survival. He's sunk to the lowest of the lows but he doesnt go under. its such a fasinated point of the story.

Norrington tangents are welcomed! At least by me. I love the character. I think if I were a woman of the time period, I'd have thrown myself at him. Now there's a tangent.

Yes, redemption seems to be his fate. He's gone to an extreme to achieve what he wants, and ultimately he'll have to sacrifice something. I'm hoping it's not his life as has been rumored, but it would make sense with the story.

what the heck is this about shadows?

All I know of in cinematic terms, is the character often referenced as "the shadow"..often a shadowy nemesis

the supposed Dragon Lady?

I'm still trying to figure out if Will is a shape shifter to anyone and if Liz is one to anyone and jack is one to anyone lol

Originally posted by savvysparrow
Now that is INTERESTING! I never thought of his decision to free his father in that way, but now that you mention it, that totally makes a whole lot of sense. It's almost as though Bootstrap's freedom is similar to Jack's decision to sacrifice his soul for the Pearl. Initially I thought that Elizabeth's betrayal had pushed him into that realm, but I think you're right, it starts much earlier than that. He's sacrificing the good man he once was to achieve a goal. Is it a false ideal? Perhaps, it seems as though Bootstrap's fate is to remain cursed. More importantly, what would happen to Will if he were to fail in some manner to rescue his father?

ooooh.... thats an interesting question. i dont know. it would be freaky.

yeah thats interesting--- there is a conflicting theme of "you cant mess with fate" alongside a theme of "redemption of the wicked"... Jack has more or less forgiven Bootstrap, but has Will? Honestly, has Will settled that his father lied to him, left his mother and him alone, mutinied Jack, etc? Has Will squared with that?

Originally posted by LovelyOne
what the heck is this about shadows?

All I know of in cinematic terms, is the character often referenced as "the shadow"..often a shadowy nemesis

the supposed Dragon Lady?

I'm still trying to figure out if Will is a shape shifter to anyone and if Liz is one to anyone and jack is one to anyone lol

I think Kate could answer this better than I could but in Jungian psychology and archetypes there is what's called the shadow, which is a small piece of what makes the whole "self". There is also a masculine and feminine portion of the self. The shadow is sort of like the subconscious mind, if you are familar with Freud's work.

Surreal, what else can i say? there's more on my mind than Jack and Elizabeth, okay? I'm really trying to be nice here. I want you to know that. I might come across as an adamant Liz/Jack shipper, but its mainly because they are exciting and intriquing, its not intellectually based shipping. So when I get intellectual and factual and psychological, i'm not in shipper mode at all. Its compartmentalized movie enjoyment. Okay? 🙂

Oh the shadow! Like SavvySparrow said, the shadow is essentially the subconcious half of a character.

Its all their desires/thoughts/actions that remain hidden for the most part, but come out sometimes.

Wikipedia is more eloquent than me!

The Shadow

The shadow is an unconscious complex that is defined as the repressed and suppressed aspects of the conscious self.

There are constructive and destructive types of shadow.

On the destructive side, it often represents everything that the conscious person does not wish to acknowledge within themselves. For instance, someone who identifies as being kind has a shadow that is harsh or unkind. Conversely, an individual who is brutal has a kind shadow. The shadow of persons who are convinced that they are ugly appears to be beautiful.

On the constructive side, the shadow may represent hidden positive influences. Jung points to the story of Moses and Al-Khidr in the 18th Book of the Koran as an example.

Jung emphasized the importance of being aware of shadow material and incorporating it into conscious awareness, lest one project these attributes on others.

The shadow in dreams is often represented by dark figures of the same gender as the dreamer.

According to Jung the human being deals with the reality of the Shadow in four ways: denial, projection, integration and/or transmutation.

Originally posted by katelovespirate
ooooh.... thats an interesting question. i dont know. it would be freaky.

yeah thats interesting--- there is a conflicting theme of "you cant mess with fate" alongside a theme of "redemption of the wicked"... Jack has more or less forgiven Bootstrap, but has Will? Honestly, has Will settled that his father lied to him, left his mother and him alone, mutinied Jack, etc? Has Will squared with that?

That's a good question. I think that his promise to Bootstrap was evidence that he had squared with that idea, but doesn't that promise in and of itself seem a little strange? I almost feel like Will is attempting to save Bootstrap from Piracy instead of from Davy Jones.

One of the saddest lines in that portion of the movie is when Bootstrap says something to the effect of that he could say that being a pirate wasn't what he wanted, but it would taste a lie. How in the heck would that make Will feel better?

Oh please, let's not ever bring Freud into the mix. 😘

Edit for attempt at fixing spelling error.

Originally posted by savvysparrow
That's a good question. I think that his promise to Bootstrap was evidence that he had squared with that idea, but doesn't that promise in and of itself seem a little strange? I almost feel like Will is attempting to save Bootstrap from Piracy instead of from Davy Jones.

One of the saddest lines in that portion of the movie is when Bootstrap says something to the effect of that he could say that being a pirate wasn't what he wanted, but it would taste a lie. How in the heck would that make Will feel better?

I know. I struggle with thinking that Bootstrap was just saying that to get Will off the dutchman and safe, and with thinking that Bootstrap has Will's honest nature and just cant lie to people, much less his son...

Originally posted by Surreal_44
Oh please, let's not ever bring Freud into the mix. 😘

Edit for attempt at fixing spelling error.

this not KTTC..this KMC..you no need to say you edit

I'm speaking like a cave man because my brain feels numb like one

and guys thanks for explaining the shadow thing..my brain is smushed right now lol...so Its still not making much sense but will look over it again soon 😄

giggle... LOL. mine too. im writing a scathing review of a play right now.

Originally posted by savvysparrow
I think Kate could answer this better than I could but in Jungian psychology and archetypes there is what's called the shadow, which is a small piece of what makes the whole "self". There is also a masculine and feminine portion of the self. The shadow is sort of like the subconscious mind, if you are familar with Freud's work.

Lovelyone, totally OT, but i was trying to respond to your post above to say YAY lets talk about the Oddyssey but then i realized after about 10 tries i couldnt flipping SPELL it. *smacks head*.

Pretend we can talk about the love triangle for a sec...
Well, Jung would have no prob explaining everything:
Oftentimes, when people ignore the anima or animus complexes, the anima or animus vies for attention by projecting itself on others. This explains, according to Jung, why we are sometimes immediately attracted to certain strangers: we see our anima or animus in them. Love at first sight is an example of anima and animus projection. Moreover, people who strongly identify with their gender role (e.g. a man who acts aggressively and never cries) have not actively recognized or engaged their anima or animus.

*insert brilliant explanation of entire love triangle here*

okay back to Will.

I feel dumb...

why??!

I dunno my brain just feels like mush

usually I understand all this deeper stuff but its just gone out the window 😂

*passes lovelyone the rum* jolly good. we were getting a bit too deep for pirates anyways. 🙂