Respect Anakin Skywalker

Started by Janus Marius4 pages
OMFG JANUS LIVES!

^ This will replace all those "Frodo lives!' graffiti tags in the subways.

... And if you got that reference, you are OLD.

Although, I will say that for such a saint, leaving an utterly defenseless Anakin to burn to near death was hardly a heavenly display of compassion. St. Kenobi even ponders upon that himself (wondering if the discompassion shown at Mustafar would rapt Darth Vader's hate and rage, further propelling him down towards the Dark side).

Regardless of if Anakin was evil or twisted by the Dark side, there really was still good in him (and there always has been, even since his transformation into Darth Vader until his subsequent death in RotJ), and this is brought out by his child, Luke, within a short amount of time - why could Obi-Wan not help him, instead of making absolutely no attempt to save him? Or, at the least, kill him quickly and swiftly. Which actually would've saved the galaxy some trouble.

Plus, it's just common decency to save someone on fire, you know. But that's not the reason I said that, just some thinking and reviewing. He's still, IMO, the epitome of a Jedi

Okay, I can agree with that. It IS a disturbing way to let someone die. However, I see it as Obi-Wan being extremely human for a change, and not just a Jedi. He was convinced his friend was dead and buried, and that writhing mass he left on the hot spot was something else. Something evil. So he acted in shock and disgust. To be quite honest, if my best friend choked his wife, butchered all our friends and children besides, and threatened to surrender the galaxy to darkness, I wouldn't be anywhere near as nice as Obi-Wan.

And then there's the fact that GL had to explain why Vader was fekked up by Obi-Wan by creating the past after the OT, so to speak.

With my "below-normal intellect" it's hard for me to say anything but nonsense! LOL .. Obi-wan’s character is completely useless by the middle of episode 4. His character revolves around Anakin. His only point of being in any episode is because Lucas needed to show what happened to Anakin from the beginning to end. Obi is the reason Anakin turns in my opinion .. If it wasn't for his lame teaching, Anikan might have had a chance ...and if I were you Janis, I would be very careful how you respond to this! Har Har

But you're not me.

I wasn't applauding him for his reasons. GL was showing the vast change that came over Anakin from the lightside to the darkside. The slaughtering of the younglings, was, imo, the final concrete action. Their are few things worse then killing innocent kids, really.

Yes, I didn't expect him to become dark lord of the Sith by not paying his parking tickets. But still... killing kids makes him a monster, not a respectable person. *Enter IMO disclosure here*

Anakin was a padawan at that point so his force knowledge was very low. But his was still good with a saber at that time.

Those Tuskin Raiders were considered to be very dangerous by locals living nearby. Mr "Lars" (husband of Shmi Skywalker) went to their settlement to rescue his wife with 35 men and only 5 returned.

Also, Obi-Wan fooled those two Tuskin Raiders in Episode 4 by making a voice of "Krayt Dragon", which scared those Raiders or else Luke was about to be pawned.

1. Yes, he was a padawan. However, we see capable padawans all the time. Obi-Wan as a padawan could defend against droidekas, sith lords, and a multitude of combat droids. All those easily trump some Tuskan raiders.

2. Lars likely got ambushed. In fact, I seem to recall him saying something to the effect. In any case, Jedi are supposed to be one-man armies when the need arises. Killing sand people didn't make me see him as uber; it made me think he needs a safety on that hair trigger of his.

Also guys, please try not to go too off-topic, I mean a little is OK, but starting a debate about whether Obi-Wan deserved to die o what not is a bit too much.

Yes, because starting a relevant discussion is bad, but random posting about how "kewl" Anakin is in each person's opinion is MUCH better discussion. Yes, I see that clearly.

You have very good points, however he struggled like no other Jedi had previously done. He wasn't trained from infancy, so he already knew what it was like to use emotions, and certain reactions to certain emotions. I think he wanted to stay true to both OB1 and Padme until Mustafar. He sees his wife come all the way out there trying to talk him down and then sees OB1 standing there on HER ship. Yea he was stupid, and not thinking clearly, so he assumed she was on OB1's and the Jedi's side. Did he more than overreact by choking his wife? Absolutely, but that's what the Darkside does to your mind. I'd say for being a Sith, he more than gave OB1 more than 1 chance to leave. He even was hesitant to comment about OB1 to Padme, saying he hope's he remains loyal to the chancellor, which to me meant, he didn't want to have to kill him...as he says later. Also, you have to admit that OB1 didn't give him the respect that he got from QGJ and the respect that QGJ gave to OB1 himself. Even during a compliment, he found some way to belittle him. "Good call, my young apprentice." Couldn't just say good job? That was evident all throughout AOTC. I'm sure with Anakin knowing emotions, built up a slight resentment towards him despite his underlying love and respect.

A few things on this from my POV:

1. Anakin being a few years behind the other Jedi shouldn't be the difference between sociopath and peacekeeper. Luke Skywalker was about twenty when he first received Jedi training, and HE didn't butcher kids or betray his friends.

2. Anakin was seriously deluded throughout AotC and RotS, believing that everyone was holding him back and that everyone was against him. Quite frankly, I didn't care for his whiney, "woe is me" attitude, and it does everything to make me dislike him when I see him carry on and on about how "Obi-Wan holds me back. He's jealous" when Obi-Wan is trying to keep him out of trouble.

3. My parents make Obi-Wan's rebukes look like preschool jabs in comparison. I don't exactly shed tears for poor ol' Annie in this case, sorry.

Here's where we might disagree. He was a good man by position. Because of being a Jedi, he was hailed a good man and protector of the galaxy, which to a strong degree is true...but he most definitely had his flaws as a man and mentor. If he didn't believe that he was prepared to train someone like Anakin, then he should have waited till he was better prepared.

I don't see how this effects anything. Obi-Wan was "wise beyond his years" as Qui-Gon was keen to say, and he furthers his late master's wishes by taking on Anakin. No, he wasn't confident in his ability. Most teachers really aren't, especially those made young or out of circumstance.

If he, later on down the road, still trained him and ensured that he was to be trained, he still fulfilled his promise to QGJ.
There's also what i was saying earlier about his lack of respect towards Anakin, and even some possible resentment for the level of Anakin's power...I mean if Mace had it, I don't see why OB1 couldn't harbor some resentment.

This is what Anakin would believe, because it justifies his frustration and impatience, and fuels his ego. However, Obi-Wan genuinely loved Anakin and wanted the best for him. And Obi-Wan praised him greatly in RotS, claiming he would be greater than himself, and when Mace and Yoda had doubts about the prophecy, Obi-Wan showed that he still believed in it. I don't see jealousy at all.

Also, he has a track record of lying, be it a tiny white lie or one like "from a certain point of view".

Quite frankly, everyone does. Anyone who says otherwise is lying.

He's sees fit to say what needs to be said in order to achieve his goal. He flat out LIED to Luke about his father in order to fuel Luke to want to kill him; he lied to Taun Wi (spelling?) about the nature of his visit to Kamino.

Obi-Wan didn't neccessarily lie to Luke; he used a figure of speech. Likewise, he allowed Taun Wi to mistake his intentions and didn't offer to correct her assumptions, because he needed to find out what was going on. I could see if Obi-Wan tricked kids into eating paste and cheated on his wife or something, but in all these cases Obi-Wan did what was best to protect people and to avoid conflict or hardships. It's also not the case that anything bad occured because of such bended truths.

I can definitely see your POV's, and will respond in kind, however, I'll have to wait till tomorrow. Got to work both jobs tomorrow so i have to hit the sack, but i look forward to discussing this in greater detail later.

it's been awhile since we've had fresh POV's around here....good to have you back, Janus! 👆

Yes, because starting a relevant discussion is bad
It's not relevant to the topic.
but random posting about how "kewl" Anakin is in each person's opinion is MUCH better discussion.
Originally posted by Dessel FTR, the purpose of this thread isn't to verbally fellate Anakin or suck his penis or anything like that (as might have been indicated by the word 'respect'😉, a respect thread is a thing that goes down in the comic book forum where you just post general info about a character, so as to try and build up a profile for said character so people can easily access easy reliable info about said character.
Yes, I see that clearly.
You clearly don't, apparently.

I fail to see the point of this thread if we're just going to go 'Anakin is uber.'

No no no, that's not the point, it's to post info about him so as to make a profile type thread where people can access easy info about him. What's so hard to understand about that, I've said it like 5 times, reading comprehension much?

I can definitely see your POV's, and will respond in kind, however, I'll have to wait till tomorrow. Got to work both jobs tomorrow so i have to hit the sack, but i look forward to discussing this in greater detail later.

it's been awhile since we've had fresh POV's around here....good to have you back, Janus!

Of course! It's been a LONG time. Hit me up with that reply when you get a chance.

You clearly don't, apparently.

And my reply:

This topic is absolutely ridiculous.

No no no, that's not the point, it's to post info about him so as to make a profile type thread where people can access easy info about him.

This link makes this thread pointless.

What's so hard to understand about that, I've said it like 5 times, reading comprehension much?

Way to talk to a moderator, noob.

I was just going to say, Wookieepedia renders this thread pointless.

No more than Dessel's contributions.

And REX, why isn't the little sock banned yet?

Janus, how dare you call that n00b-wannabe a 'n00b'? IM MORE N00B!! I WAS INACTIVE IN YOUR RP ON PURPOSE!!! Well, actually its because of my internet connection, but I would of!

I think there's a certain Noob around here who needs a hug.

Or some morphine.

Originally posted by Tangible God
I think there's a certain Noob around here who needs a hug.

Or some morphine.

Both. I need both.

Because the globals are slow to act, it seems.

Originally posted by Janus Marius
And my reply:

This topic is absolutely ridiculous.

Now why am I not surprised that that was the best you could come up with? Real witty. 👆

This link makes this thread pointless.

Wiki is unreliable, and for characters as big as Anakin, will miss out lots of info, info which can be added into this thread.

Way to talk to a moderator, noob.

This coming from you? Didn't you talk in the same manner to Ush? Oh yeah, that's right, and then he made you look like a fool, and you ran away to !nvisionfree. So unlucky about that, btw.

why should i respct anakin, hes a punk. I respect ONLY the old anakin
[HINT] sebastian shaw, That old man anakin should be respected, he > vader and he > luke

@Dessel

Originally posted by Dessel

Wiki is unreliable, and for characters as big as Anakin, will miss out lots of info, info which can be added into this thread.

Who ever said wiki is unreliable? it summarises what has happened in the EU, idk what are you talking about. I was able to read up on the contradictions on sia lan wezzs death, Still want to say its not reliable?

Anyone can edit it, much of what is inside the articles are opinions labelled as fact, which can be misleading, and there have been many times in the past where people just write BS in the hopes of confusing some naive fans. Face it, wiki isn't 100% reliable, the random thing you mentioned doesn't change that, I'm happy that you were able to read up on some random jedi's death, more power to you, but wiki is still not 100% reliable.

There's so much reliable and a bit of unreliable information in Wiki that you can't possibly feel that Anakin's article is missing anything crucial.

There's so much material focused around Anakin that there's a lot missing in his wiki articles anyway. Plus there's more to respect threads than just that, I'm talking about posting comic book scans, direct quotes from books etc., stuff that wiki doesn't provide.

Originally posted by Janus Marius

A few things on this from my POV:

1. Anakin being a few years behind the other Jedi shouldn't be the difference between sociopath and peacekeeper. Luke Skywalker was about twenty when he first received Jedi training, and HE didn't butcher kids or betray his friends.


True to an extent. However Luke was never a slave and despite having a rage that only a slave could feel, still go on being a selfless child. I think the respect factor, or lack there of (only in TPM and AOTC), from Ob1, affected him more than some may realize. He referred to him a "pathetic life-form" and constantly belittled him in AOTC. I know we only see a few of these on screen, but its a habit that I would assume continues during the periods that aren't on camera.

Originally posted by Janus Marius
2. Anakin was seriously deluded throughout AotC and RotS, believing that everyone was holding him back and that everyone was against him. Quite frankly, I didn't care for his whiny, "woe is me" attitude, and it does everything to make me dislike him when I see him carry on and on about how "Obi-Wan holds me back. He's jealous" when Obi-Wan is trying to keep him out of trouble.

Yea...but the fact that still remains that he was better than his so called peers, but he wasn't allowed to venture to the ends of his own abilities, without being reprimanded for it. I don't recall anyone giving mace grief for inventing the deadliest lightsaber form ever, which utilizes the darkside. Anakin in a sense was being held back, and being that OB1 was his frontline supervisor, he focused his aggressions out on him, cause at that time, he didn't have the...platform...he needed to b!tch to/at the Council, as he did in ROTS. He was whiny at time, and that was annoying, but if you could write an "A" paper, but all your classmates were writing "C" papers, and you were told you had to conform to their skill level, would that make you mad? Assuming of course, acedeimia was your life's ambition...

Originally posted by Janus Marius
3. My parents make Obi-Wan's rebukes look like preschool jabs in comparison. I don't exactly shed tears for poor ol' Annie in this case, sorry.

Again, like I said up there, there were most likely more we didn't see, and it was often pulling his card in front of people and making him look dumb in front of them. And its a PG movie, he cant exactly cuss him out on camera, lol. "Anakin, you motherf*cker!"

Originally posted by Janus Marius
I don't see how this effects anything. Obi-Wan was "wise beyond his years" as Qui-Gon was keen to say, and he furthers his late master's wishes by taking on Anakin. No, he wasn't confident in his ability. Most teachers really aren't, especially those made young or out of circumstance.

Well, despite it being a position of circumstance, it could still cause friction. What if you had to teach Einstein chemistry and physics? You go through a few courses at college, and then, oh by the way, Albert here needs some tutoring...how do you think that would make him feel, and you? You would resent the fact that you had the responsibility of teaching someone destined to be better than you, something. Correct?

Originally posted by Janus Marius
This is what Anakin would believe, because it justifies his frustration and impatience, and fuels his ego. However, Obi-Wan genuinely loved Anakin and wanted the best for him. And Obi-Wan praised him greatly in RotS, claiming he would be greater than himself, and when Mace and Yoda had doubts about the prophecy, Obi-Wan showed that he still believed in it. I don't see jealousy at all.

You're right in ROTS they were shown to be great friends. Another "what if" question...if you loved basketball and wanted nothing but to be in the NBA, and you were friends with Jordan...he's everything you would want to be in a player, now even if there's respect there, would you honestly say that you would harbor no jealousy towards him and his abilities? I just think some people are better teachers than others, and in this case, QGJ was better and would have treated Anakin better and give him more free range to explore his powers, due to actually believing he's "the one". OB1 called him "pathetic" as i stated before, and even Mace, according to GL, held resentment over Anakin's superior abilities and progress.

Originally posted by Janus Marius
Quite frankly, everyone does. Anyone who says otherwise is lying.
indeed. but the "good" people do it far less and ona smaller scale.

Originally posted by Janus Marius
Obi-Wan didn't neccessarily lie to Luke; he used a figure of speech. Likewise, he allowed Taun Wi to mistake his intentions and didn't offer to correct her assumptions, because he needed to find out what was going on. I could see if Obi-Wan tricked kids into eating paste and cheated on his wife or something, but in all these cases Obi-Wan did what was best to protect people and to avoid conflict or hardships. It's also not the case that anything bad occured because of such bended truths.

Allowing someone to assume you for someone else and not correcting them in that type of situation, is lying and/or being knowingly dishonest. I know he wanted to find out things, but it was dishonestly, "a path to the darkside that is". Isn't that when Yoda said mistrust and lies are Dooku's ways and part of the darkside? Why would that not apply there? And no, I wouldn't say thats a figure of speech...a figure of speech is like; man this bag weighs a ton, when clearly it's not a ton. But saying that someone murdered your father, rather than, he just became a prick and took a new moniker, is far beyond a "certain point of view" or figure of speech.
Eating paste, lol...i laughed for like 5 minutes on that one...but anyway, you said he did it to avoid conflict, but how conflicted do you think Luke was when he learned the man he thought killed his dad, was actually his dad, and it was then his duty to kill him? Thats some hardship for your ass right there.

It must be mentioned that Watto wasn't exactly a harsh slave owner. ermm