Youre not allowing me to teach you. Youre just rejecting my beliefs.
The title says why do you(I) believe the bible.
I know that the bible is the the scrolls where people wrote back in the days. They wrote their beliefs, what they observed, what they experienced, and they also created the rules and regulations (aka 10 commandments). its written there in the bible.
Do you believe in the Constitutional Rights written by the Founding fathers of America. I do. I also believe the bible just like how i believe the Constitutional Rights.
Originally posted by SmiterBut you're not saying why you believe, you're trying to prove it as truth.
Youre not allowing me to teach you. Youre just rejecting my beliefs.
The title says why do you(I) believe the bible.
I know that the bible is the the scrolls where people wrote back in the days. They wrote their beliefs, what they observed, what they experienced, and they also created the rules and regulations (aka 10 commandments). its written there in the bible.Do you believe in the Constitutional Rights written by the Founding fathers of America. I do. I also believe the bible just like how i believe the Constitutional Rights.
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
I have never said that god rejected people. People reject people. But people are also the ones who wrote these fairy tales and spent the next 4000 years professing them to be fact. And for the last 2000 years christians have repeatedly sought to use the words of Jesus to condemn and scare people. It's petty. It's not what Jesus taught. And organized religion as a result of the will of an all knowing god makes no sense. An all knowing god would be free of the constraints of human personality quirks. God didn't create teh universe to treat it like a kid with an ant farm. It's just silly. But that's how "god" is treated by his followers. They treat him like a confused old man that changes his mind. He goes from being an eye for an eye to floods to love and respect and peace to returning in teh form of Jesus on a horse with a sword. It's hypocritical from beginning to end. I, personally, have more respect for the possiblity of a creator by not treasting it like it's a human being with a beard in the clouds, judging us and setting us up for failure.I don't have all the answers. But neither does any other human being, Jesus or otherwise, that profess to have them.
Your problem really isn't with the bible - but with those who've interpreted and presented it to you. Unfortunately, many churches(and Christians..this includes myself) nowadays have become very doctrinal with their spreading of the gospel, forgetting to spread the simple message of *love* as taught by Jesus - and concentrating more so on themselves as the messengers. Some of this is purposeful, as many are very vested in their own interests, and the benefits that come along with having a leadership role within the church. Others are truly trying to help spread the message, however, ignorant of the damage being caused.
I have to admit - I find myself very hesitant going to church as of late because of this. I mean, who really wants to go to a church full of phonies, who will smile in your face at church - however won't even call you to see how you are doing, after you've walked out the door.
Still - even with all of the hypocrisy going on within the church today - I know God's love exists, because I have seen(and experienced) him myself in my life(in abundance). Not just by what I've received - but with what I've been able to give through the message that's been presented.
I've seen you state that you were at one point a Catholic, so I'm betting you know an awful lot about the bible. I recommend that you take the time - to look at a few verses of John, with an open mind and an open heart to really get a better understanding of Jesus and his teachings. To me - John seems to give the best interpretation of Christ's message , without coming across as overly doctrinal or condemning.
Originally posted by usagi_yojimbo
Your problem really isn't with the bible - but with those who've interpreted and presented it to you. Unfortunately, many churches(and Christians..this includes myself) nowadays have become very doctrinal with their spreading of the gospel, forgetting to spread the simple message of *love* as taught by Jesus - and concentrating more so on themselves as the messengers. Some of this is purposeful, as many are very vested in their own interests, and the benefits that come along with having a leadership role within the church. Others are truly trying to help spread the message, however, ignorant of the damage being caused.I have to admit - I find myself very hesitant going to church as of late because of this. I mean, who really wants to go to a church full of phonies, who will smile in your face at church - however won't even call you to see how you are doing, after you've walked out the door.
Still - even with all of the hypocrisy going on within the church today - I know God's love exists, because I have seen(and experienced) him myself in my life(in abundance). Not just by what I've received - but with what I've been able to give through the message that's been presented.
I've seen you state that you were at one point a Catholic, so I'm betting you know an awful lot about the bible. I recommend that you take the time - to look at a few verses of John, with an open mind and an open heart to really get a better understanding of Jesus and his teachings. To me - John seems to give the best interpretation of Christ's message , without coming across as overly doctrinal or condemning.
No, my problem is not with the bible, but I thank you for considering my situation and responding with my words. The bible sits on the shelf along side other books from my childhood. I have no more issue with the bible than I do with the comprehensive works of Grimm's Fairy Tales my aunt gave me when I was 6. The difference is that I spent many years after that in private catholic education school system. And I'm all for looking at the bible with an open mind. I did it for 13 years in school. But if you think I'm going to look at John as canon and disregard the common acceptance that the whole of the gospels are canon too, that isn't going to happen. Don't presume to think that my disgust with organized religions, christianity included, is some left over teen angst, 'rebellion against authority' issue. Cherry picking canon to get some light to click on in my mind is a waste of time. I've read it. I've been forced to think about it, willingly and not. And I've been to the churches of many other sects of christianity.
And if you think that the message of love and acceptance taught by Jesus is getting lost in the condemnation and scare tactics engaged in by your fellow christians, then remind them about it. Not me.
As I have said before, I have no major issues with what was taught by Jesus. I have no issues with people who engage in the practice of christianity. I have a problem with them choosing to do so and thinking that gives them the authority to condone or condemn every other person on the planet.
Originally posted by usagi_yojimbo
Truly a response worthy of pity. I am but one - and you have legions of people supporting you, as well as multiple imitations and numerous farcing(including your own) to presently support your positions - and this is the best response you can give? I guess the truth does indeed hurt - but what hurts even more, is the realization that one never understood - nor had any grasp on the truth to begin with.
It's funny how delusional you are in the fact that you see a fairy tale as absolute truth, and then beleive that I see this truth, but deny it for selfish reasons
😆
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
No, my problem is not with the bible, but I thank you for considering my situation and responding with my words. The bible sits on the shelf along side other books from my childhood. I have no more issue with the bible than I do with the comprehensive works of Grimm's Fairy Tales my aunt gave me when I was 6. The difference is that I spent many years after that in private catholic education school system. And I'm all for looking at the bible with an open mind. I did it for 13 years in school. But if you think I'm going to look at John as canon and disregard the common acceptance that the whole of the gospels are canon too, that isn't going to happen. Don't presume to think that my disgust with organized religions, christianity included, is some left over teen angst, 'rebellion against authority' issue. Cherry picking canon to get some light to click on in my mind is a waste of time. I've read it. I've been forced to think about it, willingly and not. And I've been to the churches of many other sects of christianity.And if you think that the message of love and acceptance taught by Jesus is getting lost in the condemnation and scare tactics engaged in by your fellow christians, then remind them about it. Not me.
As I have said before, I have no major issues with what was taught by Jesus. I have no issues with people who engage in the practice of christianity. I have a problem with them choosing to do so and thinking that gives them the authority to condone or condemn every other person on the planet.
From what you describe - it seems as though you do indeed have major animosity towards the *presentation* and specific individuals who *presented* it to you.
Often times - the result of unlovingly teaching of God's word, is a bitter and resentful individual - one who acts out in rebelliousness as a means to hurt others(and God himself) - in the same way that they believe they've been hurt.
Sexual sin, is another typical response to this feeling of being unloved, It offers instant gratification, and can quickly make one feel loved and accepted by those who are giving them this gratification. I'm sure I can't even begin to fathom, what other types of things you've been through within your life - which have caused this latent anger, however - I do have much empathy for you.
Having a child out of wedlock - as well as having multiple sexual partners in my life, I too have struggled with sexual sin. It is one of the most difficult sins to overcome(and I haven't completely overcome it) - however, as it is written in the bible - "greater is he who is of me - than he who is of the world." If you truly want to experience some of this greatness(and love) - deny yourself - or at least try to deny yourself, of the things(and behaviours) that you most desire. I'm not asking you to make an instant change, but I am asking of you to at least try the alternative.
If you truly want to demonstrate that you are of an open mind - then you will at least open yourself up to the possibility of a new lifestyle. If you can't do this - then you will have proven yourself just *hypocritcal* as those close minded Christians. But I know you will at least try - at some point - because you indeed have to prove to yourself - that you are better than these so called *hypocrites.* I wish you the best when you do attempt this change - and I will keep you in my prayers. God bless.
Originally posted by usagi_yojimbo
I don't think you're being completely honest with yourself. From what you describe - it seems as though you still have major animosity towards the scripture - as much so as you do with the *presentation* and specific individuals who *presented* it to you.Often times - the result of unlovingly teaching of God's word, is a bitter and resentful individual - one who acts out in rebelliousness as a means to hurt others(and God himself) - in the same way that they believe they've been hurt.
Sexual sin, is another typical response to this feeling of being unloved, It offers instant gratification, and can quickly make one feel loved and accepted by those who are giving them this gratification. I'm sure I can't even begin to fathom, what other types of things you've been through within your life - which have caused this latent anger, however - I do have much empathy for you.
Having a child out of wedlock - as well as having multiple sexual partners in my life, I too have struggled with sexual sin. It is one of the most difficult sins to overcome(and I haven't completely overcome it) - however, as it is written in the bible - "greater is he who is of me - than he who is of the world." If you truly want to experience some of this greatness(and love) - deny yourself - or at least try to deny yourself, of the things(and behaviours) that you most desire. I'm not asking you to make an instant change, but I am asking of you to at least try the alternative.
If you truly want to demonstrate that you are of an open mind - then you will at least open yourself up to the possibility of a new lifestyle. If you can't do this - then you will have proven yourself just *hypocritcal* as those close minded Christians. But I know you will at least try - at some point - because you indeed have to prove to yourself - that you are better than these so called *hypocrites.* I wish you the best when you do attempt this change - and I will keep you in my prayers. God bless.
😆
Oh Brother, you think you are SO SLICK don't you ?
1) He doesn't have to try being straight. You are fkn absurd for asking him something like that. His sex life is NONE of your fkn business.
2) He, like most Gay men, has probably TRIED "going straight" many times before realizing it DOESNT WORK that way. When will you fkn learn ?
3) Being Gay is NOT A CHOICE. IT IS NOT JUST A LIFE STYLE. IT IS ABOUT SEXUAL AND ROMANTIC PREFERENCE. YOU'RE PREFERENCE IS BEYOND YOUR CONTROL. A GAY MAN CAN HAVE SEX WITH ALL THE WOMEN IN THE WORLD, THAT WILL NOT MAKE HIM HETEROSEXUAL. AS LONG AS HE HAS ONE THOUGHT, ONE DESIRE FOR MEN, HE IS STILL GAY.....
How many fkn times til you understand that simple fact ?
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Oh Brother, you think you are SO SLICK don't you ?
Not attempting to be slick - I just realized that what was originally meant was actually presented incorrectly, and I fixed it for clarity. I still don't think his problem is with the bible, rather with the people who taught it to him. Based on his responses - I believe that's why he feels the way he does, and engages in the lifestyle that he chooses to engage in.
Originally posted by usagi_yojimbo
Not attempting to be slick - I just realized that what was originally meant was actually presented incorrectly, and I fixed it for clarity. I still don't think his problem is with the bible, rather with the people who taught it to him. Based on his responses - I believe that's why he feels the way he does, and engages in the lifestyle that he chooses to engage in.
Lifestyle is a choice yes. Desire is not. Homosexual activity does not make one a homosexual. Homosexual desire/attractions are what make a person homosexual.
He was Gay before he began having sex. Same with me.
Oh, and NO....he is not homosexual out of SPITE for the Bible. That is the most incorrect, closed minded, full of shit hypothesis I have ever heard.
Homosexuality has existed for thousands of years, and NOT because of retaliation to any authority. That theory is fkn absurd and biased.
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Lifestyle is a choice yes. Desire is not. Homosexual activity does not make one a homosexual. Homosexual desire/attractions are what make a person homosexual.He was Gay before he began having sex. Same with me.
He was a *sinner* before he began having sex. As we are all. But we all have the ability to control our actions. If you are truly as much of a *free thinker* as you have proclaimed yourself to be, than you will also be open minded - and let him think for himself, instead of force feeding your own doctrinal and *religious* beliefs on him.
Originally posted by usagi_yojimbo
He was a *sinner* before he began having sex. As we are all. But we all have the ability to control our actions. If you are truly as much of a *free thinker* as you have proclaimed yourself to be, than you will also be open minded - and let him think for himself, instead of force feeding your own doctrinal and *religious* beliefs on him.
You have to be the most narrow minded self-convicted person on this thread....
Sin is just a word, a religious term, and it only means as much as we allow it to mean. Your labelling of him as a sinner means nothing if he doesn't recognize it. You can define him all you want, it does not make it FACT, just judgement.
He does think for himself, I am not thinking for him, I am speaking for him since he is not signed on right now.....
If he wants to live the "straight" lifestyle, he may, although he won't, because he already knows who he is, what he likes, and he won't fall for your bullshit propaganda.
P.S. There is NO "homosexual" doctrine...you CLEARLY don't know wtf youre talkn about...
Originally posted by Lord UrizenComing from someone who stated before that having a sexual crave for men doesn't make you gay, I think you should, rethink what you have just said.
😆Oh Brother, you think you are SO SLICK don't you ?
1) He doesn't have to try being straight. You are fkn absurd for asking him something like that. His sex life is NONE of your fkn business.
2) He, like most Gay men, has probably TRIED "going straight" many times before realizing it DOESNT WORK that way. When will you fkn learn ?
3) Being Gay is NOT A CHOICE. IT IS NOT JUST A LIFE STYLE. IT IS ABOUT SEXUAL AND ROMANTIC PREFERENCE. YOU'RE PREFERENCE IS BEYOND YOUR CONTROL. A GAY MAN CAN HAVE SEX WITH ALL THE WOMEN IN THE WORLD, THAT WILL NOT MAKE HIM HETEROSEXUAL. AS LONG AS HE HAS ONE THOUGHT, ONE DESIRE FOR MEN, HE IS STILL GAY.....
How many fkn times til you understand that simple fact ?
Originally posted by lord xyz
You didn't say that though.
I thought I did...when I am heated i tend to rush my points and make unintentional generalizations.
My point was that Capt Fantastic knows hes Homosexual....he does not have to change it, nor should he if he is happy with himself and his life.
I also doubt he can change....the change is not voluntary...change is sexual preference is RARE and happens on its OWN....not because of any sudden choice made by a person.
If you could choose to be Straight, then please tell me how....my life would be so much easier If I WERE STRAIGHT.....not that I want to change, but my point is NO CHOICE is involved.
If myself or Capt Fant had a choice, don't you think we'd choose to have heterosexual attractions instead ? We wouldn't be discriminated against or have any conflict with our families that way.