Kramer a Racist?

Originally posted by Gregory
Yeh, screaming racist epithets doesn't imply that you're racist. No sir. That's just silly.

I've been pissed off too, but I've managed to go my whole life without calling anyone a nigg*r. Because I'm not a racist. Unlike Kramer. I am absolutely stunned that people are trying to defend him.

He overreacted to some hecklers.

No no, I understand what you're saying. But this guy lost control of himself, and the first thing he does is start with the racism. That strongly suggest that he is, in fact, a racist, because apparenly not being racist requires an act of will on his part.

There's a saying to the effect that you can learn what people are really like by seeing them when they're drunk, because they have less self-control and are doing the things they'd like to do ordinarily, but can't because of laws or social expectations. It's the same principal here; I say that Kramer is racist not because he shouted slurs, exactly, but because when he lost control of himself, racial slurs were the first thing on his tongue. Not assh*ole, or motherf*cker, or any "normal" insult. Nigg*r.

Originally posted by Gregory
No no, I understand what you're saying. But this guy lost control of himself, and the first thing he does is start with the racism. That strongly suggest that he is, in fact, a racist, because apparenly not being racist requires an act of will on his part.

There's a saying to the effect that you can learn what people are like when they're drunk, because they have less self-control and are doing the things they'd like to do ordinarily. It's the same principal here.

My definition of not being racist is not that you don't use racial slurs; or rather, it's only part of my definition (Someone who uses racial slurs is a racist, but a racist need not use racial slurs). And I don't think it's a logical fallacy at all. You're right that he wouldn't normally use slurs like that; he lost control of himself, and as a result, we got to see a facet of his character that he normally kepts better-hidden. Specifically, the racist facet.

A man who only hits his wife when he's drunk is still abusive; a man who only expresses racism when he's too angry to think about the consequences is still racist.

That is a logical fallacy. You're affirming the consequent.

If someone erupts in public and uses racial slurs, they therefore are always racist and simply hold it back.
He erupted in public and uses racial slurs.
Therefore he is always racist and is simply holding it back.

The first is not necessarily accurate. By corollary neither are is the third.

Additionally your definition of racist is again oversimplistic imo.

I am not affirming the consequent. Affirming the conequent would be something like,

If someone erupts in public and uses racial slurs, then they are always racist and simply hold it back.
He is always racist, and simply held back.
Therefore, he erupted in public.

In other words, if A implies B, and B is true, then A is true.

The syllogism you put up isn't a fallicy; it's completely valid. A implies B, A is true, so B is true. You can challange the hypothesis (which is what you're doing; "You say that A implies B and A is true, but I say that A does not imply B"😉, but it is logical.

Originally posted by PVS
well, it was edited. they started calling him "craka-ass" and then stormed out. not that it matters though. why are the hecklers not considered racist? only way someone can attempt to justify that would be "he did it first!!!"
what if it was the other way around? what if they called him names first? still wouldnt matter. thats a disgusting double standard.

so if i was black and was really pissed off i could just say whatever the hell i please and not have to censor myself? i could call someone any name i wanted and threaten them and nobody would complain? that would be sooooo frikin awsome

Yeap, the blacks are becoming spoiled, the games haven't even started to begin, most of them don't really like whites anyway, and again, if all IR children came out white, blacks would be even more racist, but since they usally come out blackish, blacks are "liberal" about IR and can't see why some whites are against it, and call them "racist" just because they want children who are white.

Originally posted by Gregory
I am not affirming the consequent. Affirming the conequent would be something like,

If someone erupts in public and uses racial slurs, then they are always racist and simply hold it back.
He is always racist, and simply held back.
Therefore, he erupted in public.

In other words, if A implies B, and B is true, then A is true.

The syllogism you put up isn't a fallicy; it's completely valid. A implies B, A is true, so B is true. You can challange the hypothesis (which is what you're doing; "You say that A implies B and A is true, but I say that A does not imply B"😉, but it is logical.

If someone is racist and holds back, when they erupt they use racial slurs.
He erupted and used racial slurs.
Therefore he is racist and holds back.

Which is essentially your line of argument.

Racism is more than just using racial slurs.

Originally posted by Gregory
Do you people honestly think that "cracker" is just as offensive as "nigg*r"? Everybody involved may have been being racist, but Kramer was being so much more offensive, it's just no contest. Not to mention the lynching comment.

A hard core racist would NEVER apologize. And would use the n*gger word when they aren't upset, like, "...gotta get water from that n*gger over yonder". I do not think Kramer is racist, the hecklers gave a RACIALLY PROGOATIVE TERM, AND kramer threw it right back, and said "you can't take it, but you can give it". It was funny, it was poetic, and it is IRONIC, he is a classic act, and he made a VERY GOOD POINT in our culture. He shouldn't be punished for that. Not if the hecklers aren't.

If I cried out "Kramer, you skinny azz, go feed yourself and get a real job, you skinny ****", and he cried back "you fat azz, THERE GOES A FAT AZZ, THERE SHE IS, a real fat azz, we could bake you and feed the world". People will laugh, as they laughed at him saying "there goes a N1gger" AFTER they used racial pejoratives at him. Again, HE WAS PULLING HIS EARS, INDICATED HE COULD HEAR THEM, AND THAT WAS A POLITE WAY OF SAYING IT, BUT THOSE HECKLERS KEPT GOING ON, UNTIL IT PISSED HIM OFF. THEY DESERVED IT, I BET some will think twice, everyone knows that when a black person calls a white person cracker, he is saying it with hate, even though whites don't care or even think it's nothing but four squares of baked bread with salt.

Kramer is Jewish, so he should be familiar with blacks in some fashion, and he knows what that word means in the heart of blacks. And if he was really racist, I don't think he would care what they thought of him, cracker or pretzels. A real racist, my goodness, some of these blacks have NO idea, they really are spoiled and protected by Jews and Liberals. I went to school with some children whose parents were in the klan, and I am "black". So, I know the difference. A real racist uses the word with zero apology. And Kramer was upset, and that showed that he cared about what they thought. A real racist wouldn't even care. TRUST ME.

And now that I re-think it, I don't think he over-reacted, that was Kramer up there on stage. Kramer is OVER THE TOP, that's the act. And he said "you can't take it", but they do shove the shit and cry foul when it's tossed back.

You white people are a joke ... the sad thing is .. you think your the minority. LOL

Originally posted by darthsecretus30
You white people are a joke ... the sad thing is .. you think your the minority. LOL

Go back to your corner.

Originally posted by darthsecretus30
You white people are a joke ... the sad thing is .. you think your the minority. LOL

Originally posted by KidRock
Go back to your corner.

WTF is that supposed to mean? Enlighten me, please?

Don't enlighten a black person like that, don't even explain yourself. It's bait and switch.

LOL, thank you Newt Gingrige. Call me Mcnabb!!!

Originally posted by darthsecretus30
WTF is that supposed to mean? Enlighten me, please?

Negro please..

Sorry I mean "person of color whos ancestors (may or may not) have been enslaved 300 years ago but now collects all the benefits of it anyway regardless of how hard they work or what they do" please.

Wow Im speechless.. So when did you venture out of the trailer and get a computer? I thought your daddy was still having his drunk ass way with you and your sister .. enlighten me "Bro"

STOP DEVIATING FROM VALID POINTS:

A hard core racist would NEVER apologize. And would use the n*gger word when they aren't upset, like, "...gotta get water from that n*gger over yonder". I do not think Kramer is racist, the hecklers gave a RACIALLY PROGOATIVE TERM, AND kramer threw it right back, and said "you can't take it, but you can give it". It was funny, it was poetic, and it is IRONIC, he is a classic act, and he made a VERY GOOD POINT in our culture. He shouldn't be punished for that. Not if the hecklers aren't.

If I cried out "Kramer, you skinny azz, go feed yourself and get a real job, you skinny SH1T", and he cried back "you fat azz, THERE GOES A FAT AZZ, THERE SHE IS, a real fat azz, we could bake you and feed the world". People will laugh, as they laughed at him saying "there goes a N1gger" AFTER they used racial pejoratives at him. Again, HE WAS PULLING HIS EARS, INDICATED HE COULD HEAR THEM, AND THAT WAS A POLITE WAY OF SAYING IT, BUT THOSE HECKLERS KEPT GOING ON, UNTIL IT PISSED HIM OFF. THEY DESERVED IT, I BET some will think twice, everyone knows that when a black person calls a white person cracker, he is saying it with hate, even though whites don't care or even think it's nothing but four squares of baked bread with salt.

Kramer is Jewish, so he should be familiar with blacks in some fashion, and he knows what that word means in the heart of blacks. And if he was really racist, I don't think he would care what they thought of him, cracker or pretzels. A real racist, my goodness, some of these blacks have NO idea, they really are spoiled and protected by Jews and Liberals. I went to school with some children whose parents were in the klan, and I am "black". So, I know the difference. A real racist uses the word with zero apology. And Kramer was upset, and that showed that he cared about what they thought. A real racist wouldn't even care. TRUST ME.

And now that I re-think it, I don't think he over-reacted, that was Kramer up there on stage. Kramer is OVER THE TOP, that's the act. And he said "you can't take it", but they do shove the shit and cry foul when it's tossed back.

BLACK PEOPLE CAN'T ADMIT WHEN THEY CAUSE A SOMETHING, THEY START SH1T, AND THEN PULL BACK and cry and say "look, we're being attacked by the evil white man"..."feel sorry for us"..."all us hecklers said was white cracker-azz, aka for we hate whites"..."why couldn't he just take the insults"....

But they never ask..."why couldn't WE take the same insults..."

Kramer's character is over the top, that is who Kramer is, and that's why I don't use his real name regarding this impromtu, they dished it, he served it cold.

Originally posted by darthsecretus30
Wow Im speechless.. So when did you venture out of the trailer and get a computer? I thought your daddy was still having his drunk ass way with you and your sister .. enlighten me "Bro"

You thought wrong "dawg".

Oh I guess when he said the word "Nigga Nigga Nigga " ..ya I guess if your a different race..it wouldn't bother me either ..wow, I would just say, no big deal ..kiddin me right? http://youtube.com/watch?v=9sEUIZsmTOE