Originally posted by TricksterPriest
This could be a case similar to Gen. I'm going out on a limb with this, so bear with me. Grant has a bullet imbedded in his chest very close to his heart. He was shot defending Kain. The bullet affected his motor skills and abilities. And eventually, it will kill him. Soooo, how powerful would he be without that handicap?
Yeah.But, he's not fighting with out it in this particular match.
You don't get it, comparing characters based on looks, status, or tidbits isn't how we debate in game versus. Using your logic, I can say blanka is stronger than vega because he's green and can shocks people. It's a shallow way of debating characters.
oh heck, Akuma was defeated by Gouken, Gen, stalemated with Oro (though oro has no instant kill moves). so from that logic, ryu will never be that great cuz he can't kill anyone....but maybe he has a chance cuz he was around since SF1.
instant kill doesn't mean he'll win a fight. cuz, oh wait, akuma has been defeated. and if he's been defeated by these fighters (who are beyond human limiations) then why is grant out of question....at least a tough fight?
oh wait. you don't have answer.
the only answers is: i like akuma. he's been around for longer and he can split ayres rock in half. he owns everyone SNK can produce because err...i like akuma, akuma can split ayres rock in half....oh oh oh and akuma has developed more because....i like akuma.
my answer is:
someone who's powered up to insane levels, just like Rugal and Bison, makes him like beyond human, and with accelerated motor skills to add to that which again makes him beyond human limitations (think mitsoumi from tenjou tenge). oh wait, akuma is beyond human too. so maybe.....just ****in maybe....akuma and grant can have a pretty good fight. BUT i think akuma>grant.
Do you get it now....or do i have to draw it out in crayons on a black board 😮💨
Never miss an opportunity to trash Ryu huh man? Nobody's implying that Terry's weak or that he only can beat weak people. Do hardcore Terry fans have some sort of persecution complex or something? My post was trying to stress that ground shaking isn't as impressive to the rest of us. If ground shaking was all that tough how can Terry (who doesn't shake the ground) beat Grant(who obviously is the toughest guy ever because he makes the ground shake)?
kinda like you and how you dont get off my ass with the ground shake bit! 😂
i didn't use that factor as THE REASON why grant could give akuma a run for his money. the factor however was the "body shattering" which you conviniently ignore. however you use it against me cuz its a jab🙂
see...fun 😄
Just to get his ass handed to him again, andI don't think he can come back from decapitation or being split into tiny pieces.
Right, divine creature who gets beaten by humans. A title doesn't mean much in battles
yagami flames=neutralize
kusanagi flames=seal
yata powers=lock away
makes sense to you? *crosses fingers*
Or maybe snk made terry win because grant s nothing but a jobber boss which snk makes for the games convienence. Example: Igniz, defeats the entire kof cast, yet loses to kyo, iori, and K.
so if i'm getting it, you're points are:
-akuma is powerful cuz he can do supernatural feets (needless to say powering up to inhuman levels and having your motor skills accerlated isn't part of being supernatural. that's just jobber status).
-rugal is not=akuma cuz rugal self destructed despite pounding the whole Kof cast.
-orochi is not=akuma cuz orochi happened to be sealed away by flames that are SPECIALLY designed to seal him. what a weakling.
-Ignitz isn't so strong cuz, oh wait, he lost to Kyo, Iori and k's flames which happened to be such that sealed away divine powers. oh right. perfect sense.
-resurrecting from the dead is not similar to resurrecting from being decapitated. that's totally different.
-ryu is powerful cuz he failed to KO midtier Hugo with his strongest move.
So, going by that kyo, iori, and K>Igniz>Kof 2001 cast.
And your example with ryu isn't helping, yes, hugo survived ryu's strongest attack (Despite that being unconfirmed) does that mean he was fine afterwards? The point is we don't know,hell that blow could have been the deciding factor in that fight.
don't forget grants mask, I'm sure that put s grant on par with shin gouki.
to conclude.......we both have typed too much since yesterday😆
damn my fingers hurt like hell. i bet yours do too.
Do hardcore Terry fans have some sort of persecution complex or something?
Weird, but you should know the answer better than me. Ryu didn't even make my top ten I'll put my list up if I can ever get it 2 look right
if i knew the answer to the question i asked you i wouldn't be asking it now would i? i'm confused. people always seem to retort to my comment that ryu is THAT strong since he couldn't KO hugo. for some reason that always presses buttons and the reaction i get is the same from what i got from you, darkstrom, and emperor:
Hugo is very powerful.
however, if Ryu would've beaten akuma then that would mean that ryu is VERY powerful. But if Kyo and Iori beat Orochi...then Orochi is weak. that is the logic of SF fans that always pisses me off.
even though i've been playing street fighter since i was 6-7 years old and also say it was the one that started it i don't take its characters and call them godtiers while others from different videogames are barely able to compete with them.
another thing that pisses me off:
SF fanboy: man every videogame rips off street fighter. kazuya rips of Ryu with his EGWF and his rising sun (the spinning four jump kicks). Kyo rips off Ryu with the shoryuken. Ryo is a ryu wanna be. Akira wear clothes like Ryu.
Sado: hey wait! so if that is the case then Capcom rips off their own design more than anyone else! Sakura, ken, akuma, sagat, allen, kairi, sean, dan all do Ryu's moves or just vairiations of it. heck even Dante from DMC does the tatsumakisenpuukyaku.
Sf fanboy: err...um....err....um.....no but that's different. Sakura's moves have different priority. ken is not as strong. gouki sends him in the air.
Sado: yeah, but the move is still the same isn't it.
SF fanboy: no but the priority.
Sado: so how can you say Kazuya rips off Ryu then? his EGWF is totally different!
SF fanboy:...........*starts crying*
get my meaning? its irritating as hell.
SF fanboys are the most annoying thing on the face of this planet.
chao dude....and show me that list of your's once you actually get it up.
~Sado
Originally posted by Sado22
back at you actually.
i am telling you that grant powering up to insane levels that causes his body to break down JUST LIKE BISON AND RUGAL. Those two were VERY powerful weren't they. according to you, bison owns Geese.
but all this is apparently not enough to convince you....why? cuz that's just part of some random flashiness. that never counts for some reason.
so from YOUR logic, akuma owns everyone cuz he has an instant kill move and has been around for longer.
No, he owns people because he has feats to compare, versus using your logic where grant's on par with gouki because he makes the earth shake.Daimon makes the earth shake, I guess he's god tier right.And bison own's geese because he has better feats.When you start debating uisng feats versus appearence, you will have a point.
Originally posted by Sado22
ok so....
Iori owns everyone cuz he has a killing move (8 maiden shrine SDM) and has been around since KoF95. but does he. no. Orochi Iori was defeated by ash.
or
Akira from virtua fighters owns every one cuz HE has a killing move (whatever the hell that is called) and has been around since VF1. but does he. no. Akira was defeated by Kagemaru in VF1.
Too bad that's not what I said, I said gouki wins because he has a move that can kill you instantly storyline wise, maiden masher does not do that.And Ash beat Orochi Iori because snk has a habit oif making weaker characters dominate stronger characters often or just because they are the main character.
Originally posted by Sado22
oh heck, Akuma was defeated by Gouken, Gen, stalemated with Oro (though oro has no instant kill moves). so from that logic, ryu will never be that great cuz he can't kill anyone....but maybe he has a chance cuz he was around since SF1.
LOL, first of all he could have killed gen but choose not to because gen was sick. He wasn't fighting at full power against oro, and he lost to gouken a long time ago.
Originally posted by Sado22
instant kill doesn't mean he'll win a fight. cuz, oh wait, akuma has been defeated. and if he's been defeated by these fighters (who are beyond human limiations) then why is grant out of question....at least a tough fight?
oh wait. you don't have answer.
Defeated by whom, who beat gouki? Gouken once, wwow. And he won't win just because he has an instant kill, he'll win because he has feats versus your nly argument that pertains to earth shaking. . .weak.
Originally posted by Sado22
the only answers is: i like akuma. he's been around for longer and he can split ayres rock in half. he owns everyone SNK can produce because err...i like akuma, akuma can split ayres rock in half....oh oh oh and akuma has developed more because....i like akuma.
He's more developed, has area effecting moves (Kongoukuretsuzan), Is more durable (Survived 300 meters underwater), Sunk and island with a punnch and has more experience bversus earth shaking.
Originally posted by Sado22
my answer is:
someone who's powered up to insane levels, just like Rugal and Bison, makes him like beyond human, and with accelerated motor skills to add to that which again makes him beyond human limitations (think mitsoumi from tenjou tenge). oh wait, akuma is beyond human too. so maybe.....just ****in maybe....akuma and grant can have a pretty good fight. BUT i think akuma>grant.Do you get it now....or do i have to draw it out in crayons on a black board 😮💨
Going by titles is your only argument, "Grantz beyond human so he's God" LOL. When you actually formulate an argument I'll be here, because You keep bringing bison into this and I told you before that the state his body doesn't mean he's god. Bison was a boss before the plot device known as the psycho drive came into exsistence.
of course not😂
besides isn't it always more entertaining to throw random jabs in an argument for the sake of fun.
Originally posted by Sado22
can't say that now can you? cuz you don't know. none of us do. if you say he can't i could very well say he can.....you know why? its cuz we are speculating.
just like me "speculating" that with advanced power and motor skills and a body that is so powered up its actually shattering grant might give akuma a fight.
So, your giving him an ability based on speculation, lol. And if gill could regenerate he would not need back up bodies.
Originally posted by Sado22
.........obviously cause kyo and iori's flames are DESIGNED to take him out, genius.yagami flames=neutralize
kusanagi flames=seal
yata powers=lock awaymakes sense to you? *crosses fingers*
Right, A plot device. Just like justice flame was able to jobb igniz.
Originally posted by Sado22
ignitz didn't beat the entire cast.
K', Iori and K' took him out cuz they are powerful.
oh but its a redundant argument, ins't it?
Yeah, he did beat the enitre cast, and k,kyo, and Iori beat him because igniz is a jobber. Prior to working together they were floored like everyone else before they got up and plot device.
Originally posted by Sado22
so if i'm getting it, you're points are:-akuma is powerful cuz he can do supernatural feets (needless to say powering up to inhuman levels and having your motor skills accerlated isn't part of being supernatural. that's just jobber status).
-rugal is not=akuma cuz rugal self destructed despite pounding the whole Kof cast.
-orochi is not=akuma cuz orochi happened to be sealed away by flames that are SPECIALLY designed to seal him. what a weakling.
-Ignitz isn't so strong cuz, oh wait, he lost to Kyo, Iori and k's flames which happened to be such that sealed away divine powers. oh right. perfect sense.
-resurrecting from the dead is not similar to resurrecting from being decapitated. that's totally different.
-ryu is powerful cuz he failed to KO midtier Hugo with his strongest move.
No, more like:
-Gouki is powerful because he has feats to back up his actions, being beyond human has no merit here only his feats count. And the guy can sink islands, split ayers rock, and has an instant kill vs earth shaking.
-No, rugal is not = to gouki because he loses to kyo.
-Orochi is stronger thank gouki, he's a very well established character, solid feats, and back story.
-Actually it, was chizuru, kyo, and iori via plot device. And somehow orochi Iori who was able to choke orochi loses to ash crimson, LOL.
Originally posted by Sado22
well, Orochi>>entire cast of 97
Iori and Kyo and Chizuru>>Orochi (with their respective specially designed powers) does not mean they own the entire cast. the only reason Orochi kicked the shit out of everyone else was because their powers werent designed for working on him with the effect that Iori and kYo and kagura have. plain and simple logic.
Originally posted by Sado22
what is to say he got up and beat Ryu. you gonna convince me he didn't without any canon facst.
Canonwise, all capcom said was that hugo was not felled by a direct shinshoryuken.
Um, ryu was disqualified by oro. He beat hugo, I can link you to a plot guide which tellds you who fought who in sf3.
Originally posted by Sado22
funny 😂
but of course we know that gouki>>everyone in the fightingworld universe cuz he has developed over the years.
oh and grant's mask is pretty badass. better than the "anal beads" akuma wears around his neck 😘
Yeah, we all know snk and there well established god bosses who lose to kyo and iori can beat gouki, LOL.
Originally posted by Sado22
to conclude.......we both have typed too much since yesterday😆
damn my fingers hurt like hell. i bet yours do too.do ryu fans always think he is the strongest just cuz he couldn't KO someone who isn't even godtier? you answer that😄
Ryu beat hugo, and the shin-shoryuken thing is unconfirmed.
Originally posted by Sado22
look forward to that 😄
so whos the top. Iori? Kyo? oh yeah, of course, TERRY!😮💨
😂if i knew the answer to the question i asked you i wouldn't be asking it now would i? i'm confused. people always seem to retort to my comment that ryu is THAT strong since he couldn't KO hugo. for some reason that always presses buttons and the reaction i get is the same from what i got from you, darkstrom, and emperor:
Hugo is very powerful.
For the last time, Ryu beat hugo. He just didn't do it with one Shin-Shoryu-Ken.
Originally posted by Sado22
however, if Ryu would've beaten akuma then that would mean that ryu is VERY powerful. But if Kyo and Iori beat Orochi...then Orochi is weak. that is the logic of SF fans that always pisses me off.
Whoever told you orochi is weak is crazy, he's very overrated in this very board by the very people you call fannboys. Unlike the other bosses, orochi isn't a jobber that exsist to make Iori and kyo look COOL
Originally posted by Sado22
even though i've been playing street fighter since i was 6-7 years old and also say it was the one that started it i don't take its characters and call them godtiers while others from different videogames are barely able to compete with them.
That's hypocritical, your qucik to call grant,rugal, and igniz godtier despite them having zero feats. When snk starts maintaining there hieracrhy, you will have a point.
Originally posted by Sado22
another thing that pisses me off:SF fanboy: man every videogame rips off street fighter. kazuya rips of Ryu with his EGWF and his rising sun (the spinning four jump kicks). Kyo rips off Ryu with the shoryuken. Ryo is a ryu wanna be. Akira wear clothes like Ryu.
Sado: hey wait! so if that is the case then Capcom rips off their own design more than anyone else! Sakura, ken, akuma, sagat, allen, kairi, sean, dan all do Ryu's moves or just vairiations of it. heck even Dante from DMC does the tatsumakisenpuukyaku.
Sf fanboy: err...um....err....um.....no but that's different. Sakura's moves have different priority. ken is not as strong. gouki sends him in the air.
Sado: yeah, but the move is still the same isn't it.
SF fanboy: no but the priority.
Sado: so how can you say Kazuya rips off Ryu then? his EGWF is totally different!
SF fanboy:...........*starts crying*
get my meaning? its irritating as hell.
SF fanboys are the most annoying thing on the face of this planet.chao dude....and show me that list of your's once you actually get it up.
~Sado
LOL, Kairi and allen are not capcom characters. Street fighter EX was made by a company called "Akira". Those characters are not licensed by capcom.
And you can't rip off your own design, that makes no sense. The design is yours using it on different characters isn't ripping off it's more like recycling. Bottom line is Rising uppercuts, tornado kicks, and two handed fireballs being used by karate-ka's were made famous by capcom.
You have a gripe with street Fighter fans, But, like it or not they are pioneers.
Originally posted by Sado22
🙄
OF COURSE i don't think he shakes the whole damn planet.....come to think of it maybe the tsunami was because of grant. 😂
then why are you using this as a point when Akuma does the exact same thing?
Originally posted by Sado22
making the "GROUND" tremble by simply powering up doesn't count, i'm sure right?
See above, your point is mute since Akuma does the same thing with a stomp, Power or not (Notice how soimetimes Akuma's horse stance has no energy around it? well the earth still shakes...)
Originally posted by Sado22
it could be due to Capcom wanting to get across the whole "evil look thing" too, right?
just cuz Iori's face becomes darkened and his breath shaky and his skin purplish and his teeth sharper doesn't mean his body can take the inhuman strain since he's coughing up blood ever other minute. it just shows that the orochi has totally consumed him just the way the dark arts have consumed him which is exactly what the case is.
Yes, but Akuma's not coughing up blood, weakening due to his own power, or decaying at an advanced rate, despite displaying much higher levels of power more regularly.
Originally posted by Sado22
stop right there. SFA3 has these two wanting to fight each other. Gen is seeking him out and they do fight (both their endings). also Gen fought him but spared him since Akuma spared his life the last time (Gen never lost. akuma noticed that the old man was dying and so left him. Gen simply considersh him the victor since akuma "spared" him. SFA3, Gen spared Akuma to return the favor. Gen also forgot about the whole "death match" thing by SFA3 which is why gouki isn't dead. get your facts straight). the victor is not disclosed by capcom of their fight in SFA3 but they gave a hint that it was Gen who won and tiamat even mentions that gen DID win based on this. so...yes, akuma lost.
So, the Alpha 3 fight is pure conjecture on Tiamats part? Why, yes it is... Even though these two probably would have fought, has it crossed your mind that Akuma may have won that fight, and spared Gen a second time? You have to PROVE CONCLUSIVELY that it happened the way you claim it happens for it to be accepted as fact.
Originally posted by Sado22
i don't get your point here, darkstorm.
Rugal was schooling teh whole KoF95 cast all by himself till he self destructed and Kagura also confirmed that next year.
in Capcom vs SNK, gouki and Rugal are shown butting heads. now consider this:
-we see Rugal carrying a lifeless Akuma by the throat. Rugal is practically scratchless while akuma was literally dangling from Rugal's arm. once GOd Rugal starts his fight, he tosses Akuma away like rag doll as is pre fight intro.
-in "orochi akuma" you see Rugal thrusting his hand inside akuma's heart. Rugal is by no means life less as AKuma was in rugal's ending. also "orochi akuma" or whatever you call him, doesn't have such a prefight intro like Rugal's.
Your debating solely Omega there, I said, Regular Rugal is about as strong as Pre SF1 Gouki, which is still pretty strong. while Omega is about as strong as Alpha 2 Akuma, Lets examine that, Rugal, while having absolutely no control over his power, self detonated, releasing all of his body's power at once in an omnidirectional attack, it was enough to blow up a base... Akuma, destroyed an island with a single focused punch, not quite everything, and he ws already beaten by Ryu, but it's still a little stronger than Omega's highest showing. God Rugal is about on par with current Akuma / Shin Akuma.
Ah, the interpretation of a non-canon games opening animations, read the damn story, Rugal was the only one planning to combine the two powers, Akuma only wanted to fight. God Rugals into sequence is only to show off his new powers (Freshly aquired from Akuma), and it shows his more vicious streak, that all, no greater power levels, AND, Akuma was shaking the place up in his transformatiuon sequence 😛 is that an excuse? no...
Originally posted by Sado22
IMO capcom seems to give some pretty obvious hints there. but of course this won't convince you. so for now just offer a rebuttle to my "Rugal cleaning home with the KoF95 cast" thing.
Already did, Rugals biggest feat was blowing himself up..... How powerful...
Originally posted by Sado22
the only reason you say akuma is stronger than Rugal is......nothing. you have nothing to say aside from "i like akuma". it translates through well too. akuma has lost many times himself hasn't he? according to darkstorm ryu beat him too (which of course isn't canon). however, for some reason, Rugal>>the whole KoF cast doesn't seem to compare. so what now....ryu>>the KoF cast.
get real peeps.
..... You just insulted me..... Ok, you've now struck a bad cord with me... This? This coming from the SNK Biased Sado... All you've offered in terms of a debate, is less than circumatancial evidence that isn't supported by anything official let alone fact. you've used Taimat's oppinion and conjecture, "Grant shakes the Earth by powering up, therefore he wins" and "Rugal had a better intro sequence, therefore he wins" are not debate winning arguments, in fact, they have no actual bareing on the case, since one is exactly the same as Akuma's demonstration, and the other is not based on anything concrete.
All you've said, basically amounts to you licking your keyboard and hoping words fall out... Your arguments are tactless, and reek of a Bias oppinion, and you have the gall to accuse me of being a Fanboy. Alpha 2 Ryu did beat him, that was one of the Alpha series major events, thats where he learns about the Dark Hadou, where,s your evidence to the contrary? and lets not forget that Akuma was holding back.
Oh and while we're on the subject, where has Akuma lost, besides your Gen theory?
And I never said Ryu>KOF95 on his own, no fighter owns any KOF on their own, not even the bosses, consdieringthey still get jobbed in the end, even Rugal.
One last thing, just because one character beats another in story, does not mean they can do it regularly or without PIS, and if all the chips are down, if both fighters arn't holding back, the results may have been very different that what trnaspires in a fighting game story most of the time. Alot of matches are rigged by the story to make the stronger characters lose, does this affect their strength? no... Ryu's lost a number of times, I admit this, Bison's lost his life twice, does that make him weak? No.... Hell man, Sagat lost to DAN for christ sake, does that mean Dan's stronger than Sagat? not a damn chance... Sado, W/L records do not accurately show a characters strength, Feats and demonstrated abilities do.
I hate arguing to the point of flaming, I really do, I do my best to defuse flames when I see them, but when someone insults me, I will let the instigator know it.
No need for apologies. It's obvious Sado was asking for it. Every Boss in the history of KOF has been absurdly powerful and beaten through both plot device and apparent PIS. I personally exclude the entire NESTS saga from that opinion, as I consider them losers and dirtying the name of KOF, but take what you will.
First off, who's to say Rugal self-destructing isn't PIS? Also, there's speculation that Rugal isn't dead.
2nd, NEVER compare any other boss in KOF with Orochi. Orochi is a full god and unkillable. He's completely invulnerable except for the fore-mentioned plot device. I agree that it doesn't show off how powerful Kyo&Iori are, because it's a plot device win.
3rd, I'll give you Sado, that Igniz got jobbed by the justice flame. But everyone hates Igniz anyway, so it's not as big a deal. 😛 IMO, almost nothing in the NESTS saga should count as canon.
4th, you are a complete idiot to compare Ryu and Sagat's style and call them similar. You had a case with Sean, Sakura and the shotokans, but putting Dan in that category? He was kicked out of Shotokan. And if alot of people use a style, I dunno, maybe it's because, IT WORKS?! Sagat and Ryu both have upper cuts, and fireballs. Ouuu, what a concept. Which is more rare in Street fighter, fighters with a projectile attack, or fighters without them? The latter.
5th, Gen is dead, canon-wise. So no more half-assed theories about Gouki losing. Gen still had his vendetta and death wish in SFA3, and if you're trying to cite Gen's ending as canon, then you lack comprehension of the term 'canon'.
6th, your arguements on Grant being among the top guys in the SNK fighting universe are insane. The only boss guy Grant could beat is Krizalid and maybe Clone Zero. You should have also stipulated that the bullet in his heart was out, then he might have a prayer in hell. And even then it would only be against SFA Gouki. Gouki has destroyed islands, killed Gill, killed Bison, smashed comets and drawn even with Oro.
Last thing. Rugal self-destructing was plot device/PIS IMO. Thus, I consider Rugal the strongest boss besides Goenitz and Orochi.
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
First off, who's to say Rugal self-destructing isn't PIS? Also, there's speculation that Rugal isn't dead.Last thing. Rugal self-destructing was plot device/PIS IMO. Thus, I consider Rugal the strongest boss besides Goenitz and Orochi.
Heh, I never said it wasn't PIS, if fact, other than the Kryptonite flames, thats probably the biggest case of PIS in all of KOF.
But, Sado used it as an example of Rugals power, so... he technically opened the door, PLUS, he used the CVS2 Boss intro screens as an argument, the worst Copout I have ever seen on these forums... That steamed me quite a bit, and not because Rugal looked better (I personally like Rugal a whole lot), but because it is an incredibly vague and inane argument that can never be taken literally, plus it's circumstantial.
Originally posted by Darkstorm ZeroYeah but you said, "no fighter owns any KOF on their own, not even the bosses". I thought you meant fighting game characters in general not being able to beat KOF on their own, not just SF. My bad.
They arn't Street Fighters Remo, their Dark Stalkers, big difference (Actually VERY big)
Heh, What I meant was either any single Street Fighter or KOF, unless it's a singles tournament.
If Darkstalkers where thrown into that equasion, then we've gotta deal with heaps of different characters like Red Arremer and Goddess Athena and all sorts of nasty stuff, we lose focus of the original meaning of the thread that way, heck we could even lose sight of the fighting game characters and focus on simply what we consider to be the most powerful, which could for all intents and purposes may be a version of a character thats not in a fighting game (Red Arremeer for example could simply single hit kill everything by flying into them like he did in the G&G sreies...
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Ryu never beat goukibtw.
Gouki was holding back, but that doesn't make it any less of a victory for Ryu, unless your claiming that the Alpha 2 fight never happened, in which case I ask you to explain to me how such an important event is non canon, considering that at least 2 other Alpha 2 events are a direct result of that event, and the fact that Akuma's Island sinking is still canon.
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Gouki was holding back, but that doesn't make it any less of a victory for Ryu, unless your claiming that the Alpha 2 fight never happened, in which case I ask you to explain to me how such an important event is non canon, considering that at least 2 other Alpha 2 events are a direct result of that event, and the fact that Akuma's Island sinking is still canon.
I'm not claiming alpha 2 endings are not canon, all the endings in alpha 2 are canon with the exception of charlie's. What happened was gouki, whilst holding back fought ryu. But, on his own will ended the fight because he sensed ryu had satsu no hadou. He told him to developed it and all his previous fights will seeem like childsplay, then sunk goukentou. there was no winner, gouki spared ryu actually.
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
I suppose thats a more logical interpretation, my thesis was due to the fact that Akuma had smoke coming out of his mouth, indicating some damage...Of course this may just be a mis-interpretation.
Gouki always has smoke coming out his mouth, the alpha 2 poster showed the same thing.