I'm assuming Vops was trying as hard against Kolar as he was against K'Kruhk - in otherwords, he was trying to escape but was willing to kill Kolar if that's what it took to accomplish that. Kolar was trying to capture Vos, killing him was only a last resort, so it seems to me that their both trying equally as hard.
This is mere speculation on your behalf Darth. In one scenario, Vos had to flee at any cost, which includes charging against K'Kruhk to make his way outside. On the other hand, I can argue Vos fled, but he wasn't as worried because he believed he already lost Kolar. Again, you can't say Kolar was trying as hard as Vos or even more. We know that they didn't go all out, but we don't know who tried to fight the duel more.
Vos is on turn that he is fimiliar with, Kolar doesn't know the turf he's fighting on. It's new territory to him, Vos knows it and the people who live there well.
That has nothing to do with the fight. They were both on a flat surface dueling. It's not like they were on Mustafar, they were on a flat surface where Quinlan gets away.
No, most of us said Asajj > Quin, we just thought it would be close. When I combined what Agen has done in his duel with Quinlan plus what the ROTS novel says I'm assuming he's one of the top Jedi and ahead of Kit.
Most of us said it would be really close. Thanks to Planet, the duel between Ventress and Kit seemed pretty good, but I wouldn't call it really close even if Kit was at 100%. And Agen has done other things besides his duel with Quin. He was pretty good in raiding that Bounty Hunters Guild, and Databank calls him a "legendary Jedi Master."
Cause the other Jedi were helping Vos and because Karkko was in a weakened state.
The Jedi were helping Vos clear his mind. Thats how a Jedi Quinlan typically fights. Since Vos was not fighting at his best, when he was not plagued, it clearly shows him being superior to Karkko. And yes, Vos > Darkness Volfe.
Well that too, but fatigue played a heavy part in it.
This is mere speculation on your behalf Darth. In one scenario, Vos had to flee at any cost, which includes charging against K'Kruhk to make his way outside.
On the other hand, I can argue Vos fled, but he wasn't as worried because he believed he already lost Kolar.
Again, you can't say Kolar was trying as hard as Vos or even more. We know that they didn't go all out, but we don't know who tried to fight the duel more.
That has nothing to do with the fight. They were both on a flat surface dueling. It's not like they were on Mustafar, they were on a flat surface where Quinlan gets away.
Most of us said it would be really close. Thanks to Planet, the duel between Ventress and Kit seemed pretty good, but I wouldn't call it really close even if Kit was at 100%.
And Agen has done other things besides his duel with Quin. He was pretty good in raiding that Bounty Hunters Guild, and Databank calls him a "legendary Jedi Master."
The Jedi were helping Vos clear his mind.
Thats how a Jedi Quinlan typically fights.
And yes, Vos > Darkness Volfe.'Nope, cause he would have died if the otehr Jedi hadn't helped him. ROTS Vos might be stronger than Darkness Karkko since Darkness Karkko is iun a weakened state.
And yes, Vos > Darkness Volfe.
You're basing this off what exactly? Because Vos was able to get a lucky hit on him when the jedi cleared his mind? Please, since when does that equate to overall superiority? By that logic, TPM Obi-Wan > TPM Maul, correct? Please, Volfe Karkko was dominating the entire fight before that, and guess what. Like all sith who dominate their opponents, he grew arrogant and complacent, and the sudden surge of Vos' power caught him offguard. That's it. Vos at this stage is not better than Karkko. He won out of luck (call it the will of the force), he caught Volfe offguard. Perhaps Vos at a later stage would be better than Darkness Karkko, bot not by Darkness.
Not really. Vos was trying not ti win, so even if he was at full strength it wouldn't have made a difference.
Vos was still trying to defend himself, being in better physical position would make it easier for him to do so, so no, being at full strength would have made a difference.
'Nope, cause he would have died if the otehr Jedi hadn't helped him. ROTS Vos might be stronger than Darkness Karkko since Darkness Karkko is iun a weakened state.
Agreed. In fact, I'm of the belief that Volfe Karkko in his prime would be >>>>> RotS Quinlan, but that's just me.
Vos was still trying to defend himself, being in better physical position would make it easier for him to do so, so no, being at full strength would have made a difference.
Agreed. In fact, I'm of the belief that Volfe Karkko in his prime would be >>>>> RotS Quinlan, but that's just me.
I'd see him as being slightly more powerful than Dooku. I mean look at how powerful he was in Darkness; he was able to dominate his saber fight with Quinlan, he knew some next disappearing technique which he was able to employ in their battle, he was able to remain unaffected by Quinlan Vos' lightning, he was then able to own Quinlan Vos with force lightning, able to dominate the mind of Aayla Secura... and that was when he was centuries out of practise. We know that at least 5 jedi masters from the council had difficulty defeating him when he was in his prime, he mastered all the secrets of a sith holocron he stole from the jedi temple... I'd say he was above Dooku.
Yes, five Council members had trouble defeating him, so maybe he could take Dooku, but General Grievous in the Cartoon took out 5 Jedi at the same time. True, those Jedi may not have been quite as strong as 5 Council members but Grievous didn't have to much trouble, either, and we know that Dooku's ahead of Grievous, even CW Grievous.
A mistake on Vos's part, not an excuse for why Kolar won.
Indeed, Kolar did win. Vos underestimated Kolar, and therefore he got punished by being cornered and surprised.
And we can't assume Vos tried harder, either, so we'll just say they tried equally hard and Kolar won
Hell no! We can't assume anything. All we can say is in that particular duel where no person was trying, Kolar won. This does not equate to Kolar and Vos were fighting with equal strength and Agen pulled of the victory. If you want to say Agen > Quinlan, make a thread on it.
This has alot to do, it's alot harder to fight somewhere you're not fimilair with. Yoda would fight better in the temple than on Mustafar, Maul would be better off in the place we see him at the beginning of the Darth Maul comics than at Theed, ect. It's true, ask anybody.
Would Yoda vs. Sidious been any different if it was fought on the Geonosis hangar (no ships ready to leave) and on Utapau (where Grievous and Kenobi battled)? No, they are both on flat surfaces. Mustafar, the Senate room, are not flat environments. A person there can survive longer than a person would on a flat surface. For example, Yoda if he wanted to could hide in a pod and stall the duel. But on a flat surface, he can't hide.
Pretty good? Please. Fatigued Kit did real good against Ventress, imo a full strength Kit would beat Ventress (barely, though).
Well thats your opinion. Personally I don't see Kit being better than Asajj and Quinlan.
Whcihs is the same as helping him.
Yea, they helped make the Jedi Quinlan resurface. This is how ROTS Quinlan fights. As a Jedi who doesn't let fear or anger or other troubles hinder him.
ROTS Vos might be stronger than Darkness Karkko since Darkness Karkko is iun a weakened state.
ROTS Quinlan IS stronger than Karkko. Darkness showed that to us.
Now to argue the rest....
You're basing this off what exactly? Because Vos was able to get a lucky hit on him when the jedi cleared his mind? Please, since when does that equate to overall superiority? By that logic, TPM Obi-Wan > TPM Maul, correct? Please, Volfe Karkko was dominating the entire fight before that, and guess what. Like all sith who dominate their opponents, he grew arrogant and complacent, and the sudden surge of Vos' power caught him offguard. That's it. Vos at this stage is not better than Karkko. He won out of luck (call it the will of the force), he caught Volfe offguard. Perhaps Vos at a later stage would be better than Darkness Karkko, bot not by Darkness.
Please shut up and actually read what I wrote before. I told you to read my previous posts. Check the one which says "To Darthsith19" and you'll the enlightenment. Here's what happened kid:
1.) Quinlan is in a state of chaos. His apprentice is against him. He is full of fatigue and anger and despair. And yet the Light Side beckons him. He'll not in 100% condition.
2.) Volfe dominated the fight, plaguing on Quinlan's weaknesses.
3.) The Jedi realize that if they restore Quinlan back to his Jedi self, he can finish off Volfe.
4.) Quinlan's mind calms and he dodges Karkko's attacks. Volfe realizes Vos isn't weak and so he goes for the kill.
5.) Quinlan dodges Karkko's death stroke and kill Volfe with an expert attack.
Now the rest...
Yes, five Council members had trouble defeating him, so maybe he could take Dooku, but General Grievous in the Cartoon took out 5 Jedi at the same time. True, those Jedi may not have been quite as strong as 5 Council members but Grievous didn't have to much trouble, either, and we know that Dooku's ahead of Grievous, even CW Grievous.
This is your opinion. But even on your forum Darth, people put ROTS Kenobi over Karkko. So yeah. I personally put him on par with Kenobi because I believe Kenobi with his Soresu can give the Anzati a helluva fight.
Indeed, Kolar did win. Vos underestimated Kolar, and therefore he got punished by being cornered and surprised.
Hell no! We can't assume anything. All we can say is in that particular duel where no person was trying, Kolar won. This does not equate to Kolar and Vos were fighting with equal strength and Agen pulled of the victory. If you want to say Agen > Quinlan, make a thread on it.
Would Yoda vs. Sidious been any different if it was fought on the Geonosis hangar (no ships ready to leave) and on Utapau (where Grievous and Kenobi battled)? No, they are both on flat surfaces.
Well thats your opinion. Personally I don't see Kit being better than Asajj and Quinlan.
Yea, they helped make the Jedi Quinlan resurface. This is how ROTS Quinlan fights. As a Jedi who doesn't let fear or anger or other troubles hinder him.
ROTS Quinlan IS stronger than Karkko. Darkness showed that to us.
This is your opinion. But even on your forum Darth, people put ROTS Kenobi over Karkko. So yeah. I personally put him on par with Kenobi because I believe Kenobi with his Soresu can give the Anzati a helluva fight.
The novel states that Agen > Kit EU shows this as well.
You mean that statement which implies Agen as the second most powerful duelist in the order?? And how does EU show Agen as better than Kit? (Since when did Agen do anything…? Lol…). As you can see I know very little of Agen’s feats. Please enlighten me.
Personally, and I know this is going to spark some kind of debate, but I think Kit is better than Agen, in overall terms of sheer saber skill. He was highly admired by Obi-Wan Kenobi in Cestus Deception, a very skilled Jedi Master, and was even chosen by Mace Windu himself to accompany him on three separate occasions. Mace obviously admired Kit’s skills a fair bit too, having asked him to accompany him on so many important occasions. Surely…
I mean... What has Agen done that puts him above anybody? (Besides trapping Quinlan in a corner).
And the things that have been said about Kit’s skills... Whoah! How can you people take such statements so lightly? His movements were described as a BLUR. His speed and skill almost BROKE a Jedi’s concentration. His sense of timing was described as faster than common sense itself. He was able to dodge a JK-Thirteen’s tentacles being lashed at him from every corner. Hell, he was able to OUTSMART the droid, causing it to think it had an advantage, and then change his method in order to dazzle the droid and then issue a final assault.
And the reason why Kit lost to Asajj was because
A) He was getting tired due to his fight with the X’Ting
B) Asajj had studied Kit’s movements beforehand
Thank you and good night.
Originally posted by Prodigal Knight
Please shut up and actually read what I wrote before. I told you to read my previous posts. Check the one which says "To Darthsith19" and you'll the enlightenment. Here's what happened kid:1.) Quinlan is in a state of chaos. His apprentice is against him. He is full of fatigue and anger and despair. And yet the Light Side beckons him. He'll not in 100% condition.
2.) Volfe dominated the fight, plaguing on Quinlan's weaknesses.
3.) The Jedi realize that if they restore Quinlan back to his Jedi self, he can finish off Volfe.
4.) Quinlan's mind calms and he dodges Karkko's attacks. Volfe realizes Vos isn't weak and so he goes for the kill.
5.) Quinlan dodges Karkko's death stroke and kill Volfe with an expert attack.
Now the rest...
Don't call me kid, dumbass.
1. Not that this helps my argument (just giving you a helping hand, kid), you forgot to mention that Quinlan Vos was terrified of Anzati, and his fear played a big part in his domination.
2. Add in the fact that Volfe was just generally more skilled.
3. No! The jedi realise that Quinlan desperately needs some help, and hope that their encouragement will be enough.
4/5. Again, by this logic, TPM Obi-Wan > TPM Maul, correct? A few successful manoeuvres and a lucky hit don't quite negate the fact that Karrko dominated the entire fight beforehand. Quinlan's sudden surge in power caught Karkko offguard, and his lucky hit secured his win. That's it, Prodigal.
@Medvock
B) Asajj had studied Kit’s movements beforehand
You forgot to mention that Assaj only studied his unarmed fighting movements. That hardly counts as an advantage.
You forgot to mention that Assaj only studied his unarmed fighting movements. That hardly counts as an advantage.
Yes, it does...
"The Jedi's unarmed tactics would reveal their lightsaber technique: there was nothing they could do to prevent it"
She was able to determine their lightsaber technique just by watching how they fought unarmed. Obviously, this knowledge would give her much advantage in their duel.
Don't call me kid, dumbass.
And does kid equate anything to your comment of dumbass? No, STFU noob and read arguments before randomly spewing shLT.
1. Not that this helps my argument (just giving you a helping hand, kid), you forgot to mention that Quinlan Vos was terrified of Anzati, and his fear played a big part in his domination.
Hey thanks very much for giving even me more information to massacre your arguments with! Your so kind! 😄
2. Add in the fact that Volfe was just generally more skilled.
Excuse me? Volfe was more skilled and was dominant against a fear-worried-depressed-fatigued Quinlan. Yep I agree.
3. No! The jedi realise that Quinlan desperately needs some help, and hope that their encouragement will be enough.
Encouragement? If its thats what you call restoring a Jedi within a person, go ahead. They specifically mention in his mind on how a Jedi should act. Quinlan wasn't being his Jedi self. He just lashes out with Lightning at Karkko. He was getting dominated the whole fight. Yet when they restore the Jedi within him, Quinlan is not plagued by fear or anger or anything. He is calm and in ready with the Force. With this, he kills Karkko. ROTS Quinlan > Darkness Volfe.
4/5. Again, by this logic, TPM Obi-Wan > TPM Maul, correct? A few successful manoeuvres and a lucky hit don't quite negate the fact that Karrko dominated the entire fight beforehand. Quinlan's sudden surge in power caught Karkko offguard, and his lucky hit secured his win. That's it, Prodigal.
Terrible analogy and not even close. Was Obi-Wan being dominated because he was mentally injured and when healed, was able to slaughter Maul? Hell no! Please, in that situation Obi-Wan falls down the pit and he gets one lucky shot. Quinlan never had a lucky shot. Right when the Jedi calm him, he is able to dodge Karkko several times and then face him again. The two charge one another and Quinlan avoids Volfe's killing swipe and slash him to death. You call that lucky? Then do you call the rest luck as well? No, it was skill. Luck is one shot hitting the spot. Luck isn't multiple masterful dodges and hits. Quinlan, when as a Jedi, actually defeated Karkko. And don't argue Karkko was surprised. You saw him unable to touch Vos after the restoration. Volfe knows Vos is fighting his best and he knows that he can't toy around (not that he was but still). So he goes for the kill and fails.
That's it Planet. I'm agreeing with the fact that Karkko dominated the fight TILL VOS CHANGED. Then in the end he got destroyed.
My conclusion: ROTS Quinlan (who's a pure Jedi 100%) > Darkness Volfe.
I don't see Quinlan Vos taking out Kit Fisto a lightsaber duel, considering the Nautolan's feats of strength, speed, and skill as demonstrated in CD. When he combats the JK-13 droid, which made short work of a destroyer droid and an ARC trooper, his final assault is of such speed that it, and I quote - "baffled even Obi-Wan's experienced eye." When we account for the enemies against whom Kenobi has been pitted, and the warriors who he has seen in combat, this is quite a bit of praise. Then, his display of unarmed fury is described as a martial hurricane, in which he moves his body in multiple directions at once and almost breaks Obi-Wan's concentration again. Finally, he manages to go head-to-head with Ventress, who has by this time met both Anakin and Obi-Wan in brutal combat multiple times, slaughtered roughly half a dozen Jedi, and has managed to impress Count Dooku, who looked upon Anakin's technique with disdain. I'd say Kit has this in the bag.
And does kid equate anything to your comment of dumbass?
imo, yes. Kid is much more insulting, it is a sign of disrespect, don't call me it.
No, STFU noob and read arguments before randomly spewing shLT.
I've read and replied to every one of your arguments PK, quit making shit up. The fact is, none of them have even been worth a reply, yet I still gave one to them.
Hey thanks very much for giving even me more information to massacre your arguments with! Your so kind!
Cute! It's also funny, you clearly never read the whole of darkness, it's something you would have picked up if you had.
Excuse me? Volfe was more skilled and was dominant against a fear-worried-depressed-fatigued Quinlan. Yep I agree.
He was completely dominating their fight, outclassing Quinlan both with the force and the saber.
Encouragement? If its thats what you call restoring a Jedi within a person, go ahead. They specifically mention in his mind on how a Jedi should act. Quinlan wasn't being his Jedi self. He just lashes out with Lightning at Karkko. He was getting dominated the whole fight. Yet when they restore the Jedi within him, Quinlan is not plagued by fear or anger or anything. He is calm and in ready with the Force. With this, he kills Karkko. ROTS Quinlan > Darkness Volfe.
So you're arguing semantics now? Nice...
Terrible analogy and not even close.
You saying that doesn't quite make it so PK.
Was Obi-Wan being dominated because he was mentally injured and when healed, was able to slaughter Maul? Hell no! Please, in that situation Obi-Wan falls down the pit and he gets one lucky shot.
Your narrow minded view of the events doesn't make my analogy any less correct. The point (that you missed) is that, in both cases, it was the sudden change in fighting mentality that caught the superior opponent (who had been dominating the entire fight, and grown arrogant complacent) off guard, and it was a lucky cheap shot that enabled the lesser opponent to win.
Quinlan never had a lucky shot. Right when the Jedi calm him, he is able to dodge Karkko several times and then face him again. The two charge one another and Quinlan avoids Volfe's killing swipe and slash him to death. You call that lucky? Then do you call the rest luck as well? No, it was skill. Luck is one shot hitting the spot. Luck isn't multiple masterful dodges and hits. Quinlan, when as a Jedi, actually defeated Karkko. And don't argue Karkko was surprised. You saw him unable to touch Vos after the restoration. Volfe knows Vos is fighting his best and he knows that he can't toy around (not that he was but still). So he goes for the kill and fails.
PK, it's pretty clear to everyone apart from you that he got lucky, quit being a fanboy.
My conclusion: ROTS Quinlan (who's a pure Jedi 100%) > Darkness Volfe.
My conclusion: Volfe Karkko at his best >>>>>>> Quinlan Vos at his best.
My conclusion: Volfe Karkko at his best >>>>>>> Quinlan Vos at his best.
Wow, you're a Karkko fanboy if you say that. In that case, Karkko must be on par with Sidious, lol!
PK, it's pretty clear to everyone apart from you that he got lucky, quit being a fanboy.
😆 It's pretty clear to everyone besides you that Vos outclassed him in the end. Even darthsith, who has argued with me, said there's that ROTS Quinlan might be better than Karkko. And it's true. You know what? Don't play games. I hate when a person who's argument has totally crushed by a person who has clearly studied the argument and analyzed and all he gets is "oh you're a fanboy, shut up". I can possibly agree upon that Volfe in his prime > ROTS Quinlan, but to come up with ridicuous gestures like "Darkness Volfe uber pwns Quinlan!!!1111" and "Karkko >>>>>> Quinlan" is absolute bullshLt.