Quinlan Vos versus Kit Fisto

So you admit that Kolar > Vos.

No I said that in that fight, Vos lost, but we don't who was trying more and such. Perhaps Agen > Quinlan, I'm not sure. They would both be on the same level though, just one is higher up on the ladder.

How about you make one.

All right, sure.

Okay, ROTS Vos might be stronger than Darkness Karkko, but not Darkness Vos.

Thank you Darthsith19. This was my entire page-filling argument. To get to this point.

The rest of the stuff are mostly opinions and what you believe. And I'll make the thread.

No I said that in that fight, Vos lost, but we don't who was trying more and such. Perhaps Agen > Quinlan, I'm not sure. They would both be on the same level though, just one is higher up on the ladder.

All right, sure.

All right Darth, argue this (Agen vs. Quinlan) in the thread I made. Its going off topic over here.

Wow, you're a Karkko fanboy if you say that. In that case, Karkko must be on par with Sidious, lol!

Yes, I'd say so.

It's pretty clear to everyone besides you that Vos outclassed him in the end. Even darthsith, who has argued with me, said there's that ROTS Quinlan might be better than Karkko.

No, DS said that ROTS Quinlan > Darkness Karrko, which I agree with.

I hate when a person who's argument has totally crushed by a person who has clearly studied the argument and analyzed and all he gets is "oh you're a fanboy, shut up".

I'd already provided arguments, all that was left was to insult you. 😉

Anyways let's drop this issue and agree to disagree. I'm quite frankly getting tired of it, and it's pretty clear that neither one of us is going to convince the other of his PoV.

No, DS said that ROTS Quinlan > Darkness Karrko, which I agree with.

Wait, what did you say? WTF! Don't lie. Until I said that DS agrees with me, you changed your mind . Before, you kept on arguing how ROTS Vos < Darkness Karkko .

OK, your reply made like zero sense. WTF are you talking about?

All right, sure.

You mean that statement which implies Agen as the second most powerful duelist in the order?? And how does EU show Agen as better than Kit? (Since when did Agen do anything…? Lol…). As you can see I know very little of Agen’s feats. Please enlighten me.

He was highly admired by Obi-Wan Kenobi in Cestus Deception

and was even chosen by Mace Windu himself to accompany him on three separate occasions.

I mean... What has Agen done that puts him above anybody? (Besides trapping Quinlan in a corner).

Wait, what did you say? WTF! Don't lie. Until I said that DS agrees with me, you changed your mind . Before, you kept on arguing how ROTS Vos < Darkness Karkko .

Actually, not really. Darkness Quinlan (Jedi) = ROTS Quinlan.

I mean, Mace didn't pick Yoda and Yoda > Kit.

That might be, because he was the fricking grandmaster!

Nebaris, you know what I mean. You changed your opinions. You have lost.

When the hell did I change my opinions? I've always been of the belief that:

Uncontrolled Darkness Quinlan Vos < Darkness Volfe Karkko
Controlled Darkness Quinlan Vos < Darkness Volfe Karkko
RotS Quinlan Vos > Darkness Volfe Karkko
RotS Quinlan Vos < Volfe Karrko (in his prime)

Point out 1 time where I contradicted any of these points.

My friend, ROTS Quinlan = Controlled Darknes Quinlan....wow....

That might be, because he was the fricking grandmaster!

My friend, ROTS Quinlan = Controlled Darknes Quinlan....wow....

So you don't think Quinlan improved at all between Darkness and ROTS? Doubtful, seeing as Aayla beat him the first time they faught in Darkness, yeah, he wasn't trying to hurt her, but still.

Exactly, Quinlan was not trying at all.

Second, here's my theory on the Jedi, which you know already:

My theory is that a Jedi's powers increase in a form similar to a 'sad face' parabola. It shoots up fast but then it slowly increases. When a Jedi reaches his peak, he is the topmost point on the parabola. However, unlike a regular parabola, the Jedi stays at this point for some time (several years). After this though, he begins to deteriorate in terms of lightsaber strength and dueling. Growing older ruins your atheleticism, and even a Jedi can't be better than what he was when he thirty as opposed to seventy.

I feel there are exceptions to this. For example, a Jedi may reach his peak later in life but then keep for a time before deteriorating. Vos probably did shoot up in power from Darkness to ROTS.

I would still say that Jedi-calmed Darkness Quinlan > Darkness Karkko. And maybe ROTS Quinlan > Regular Karkko (though probably not, I don't see Volfe better than Obi-Wan for sure).

I agree with your theory. But at about what age do you think a Jedi reaches his peak? I'd say it's different for different Jedi depending on what species they are but for humans like 45 probably. Kenobi's peak was when he was 38 (ROTS) but seeing how Jinn was still strong at 60 I'd guess 45-50 for him, and it can't be before 40 cause Mace was 40 in TPM and 50 in AOTC and I think he was equally strong in AOTC and ROTS which means his peak was 51 or 52 years old. So I'd say peak's somewhere in mid-late 40's. How about you?

Wow! She was able to find out their saber forms! Big fvcking deal! That hardly counts as an advantage, not a big enough one to be considered anyway.

She was able to learn how they fight, and thus adapt her style to counter theirs. How can that not be considered an advantage?

He kicksed alot of Bounty Hunter ass in that one comic with Mace Windu when they went to that Bounty Hunter station. He also beat the shit out of Aruk the Hutt's goons without even drawing his saber. Now, it's just hunch but I'm guessing Aruk's Goons > X'ting warriors.

First off, let me make it clear I've read nothing about Agen besides his entry on Wookieepedia, which states virtually nothing of his feats.

About the kicking Bounty Hunter ass... So? Kit did to. In fact, Kit LITERALLY kicked bounty hunter ass. And I'm pretty sure he's shown more times in the comic beating the crap out of the bounty hunters than Agen.

No idea what these Aruk the Hutt's goons are, or what they are capable of, so I cannot agree or disagree with you there. HOWEVER, if kicking a bunch of Goons is one of Agen's most impressive feats, than I think it's pretty safe to say Kit outclasses him as far as feats go. Or at least, much more impressive things are said about Kit's skills than Agen's, and that's a FACT.

Yoda was selected for 2. And isn't it stated that Mace likes Kit? So that might be why he chose him, not cause he's more powerful than Agen. I mean, Mace didn't pick Yoda and Yoda > Kit.

So... Mace chose Kit because he liked him? Fair enough, although I don't recall reading that reason anywhere. In my eyes, Mace chose Kit because he valued his renowned skills moreso than he did the other Jedi -- BUT THAT IS ONLY IN MY EYES. I find it pretty logical to assume this, though. And I've just noticed, Mace chooses Kit to accompany him on FOUR different occasions, if we count the fact that Mace chose four Jedi "Generals" to lead the Jedi army on Geonosis (Kit was one of them, and I'm pretty sure Agen WASN'T).

Yoda and Mace refer to Agen as "A great Jedi".

Well... that says a lot, doesn't it? You really think they'd say anything less for ANY of the other Jedi?

It's mainly the fact that Kolar beat Vos and I think Vos is stronger than Kit.

Could someone post the page which shows this, because I'd really like to know what happened. According to what I've read here, all Kolar did was corner Quinlan and attempt to prevent him from escaping, which he failed at doing. And whether or not Vos > Kit is still yet to be determined....

She was able to learn how they fight, and thus adapt her style to counter theirs. How can that not be considered an advantage?

All she was able to find out were their forms. Sure, it's a tiny advantage, but hardly counts as a big enough one to be given credit to. The main reason Kit lost is because he was wounded and fatigued, bringing up not so relevant points just makes it more complicated.

"Ventress would sacrifice every one of them to learn what she wished to know. She knew the Jedi wouldn't just cut them down. She was watching, and studying, and saving the moment for herself."

I doubt she just wanted to know the names of their FORMS. She was STUDYING the Jedi to determine HOW THEY FIGHT, and thus USE THIS KNOWLEDGE TO HER ADVANTAGE.

Asajj was willing to sacrifice every single X'Ting just to obtain this information -- obviously this knowledge was very important to her.

Originally posted by MEDVOCK
"Ventress would sacrifice every one of them to learn what she wished to know. She knew the Jedi wouldn't just cut them down. She was watching, and studying, and saving the moment for herself."

I doubt she just wanted to know the names of their FORMS. She was STUDYING the Jedi to determine [b]HOW THEY FIGHT, and thus USE THIS KNOWLEDGE TO HER ADVANTAGE. Why the hell should this advantage NOT be counted? [/B]

Again, she can't determine that through their unarmed fighting skills. All she could work out were their forms, and that was based on the melee attacks of said forms. She can't work out exactly how they fight with a saber by watching over their martial arts skills, don't be ridiculous. If anything, not knowing their forms is more of a disadvantage than anything, knowing the form just makes it fairer, as they most likely knew her form.

It states in the Cestus Deception that the Jedi's unarmed tactics reflect their skills with a saber. From watching how they fought unarmed, Asajj was able to determine how they fought with a saber. I don't see how this is so hard to understand.
Of course she would not know EXACTLY how they fought, but she would have learned the general techniques they used while fighting unarmed to determine how they fought with a saber.