Liz is very complicated and my feelings on her differ by the second. One moment she is an awesome, strong role model of a woman and the next, I think that she needs to mature still. However, I've thought this way since CotBP when she tricked James so it didn't surprise me that she would do the same to Will and Jack in DMC.
That being said, the great thing of POTC is that all the characters are capable of doing really awful things to each other...and still standing by each other, like a real group of friends. Will said it best in the first film when answering Lizzie's question, "Whose side is Jack on?" He replied, "At the moment?"
That reply can be used for any character, especially in AWE. Yet it's trust that is each character's biggest problem even as they use it against each other, like Jack saying, "You can mistrust me less than you can mistrust him, trust me!" It becomes Will and Elizabeth's biggest hurdle in their relationship, both answering, "It was my burden to bear." when a true relationship is about honesty. Jack warned in the first film, "Honestly. It's the honest ones you want to watch out for, because you can never predict when they're going to do something incredibly... stupid." This is true because a dishonest man has accepted that the wrong action can be right but an honest man is also capable of a wrong action yet they will hold it in so there is no telling when it might happen.
This is Will and Elizabeth; they are realizing how they're capable of actions that seem wrong at the time but turn out for the best, but can they accept it in each other?
I think they can once they truly admit their real hopes and dreams. Liz didn't want Will the Blacksmith. That's who she was marrying but she fell in love with Will the Pirate which is why they distracted themselves from having sex by swordplay where she could also roleplay his being a rogue.
Sorry for the double-post, but it said my message was too long!
Anway, despite how it will hurt Jack at first, I don't want him with Lizzie. I don't think it would be best for Jack in the long run, but that doesn't mean that it was a waste for him to go after Lizzie. Lizzie has grown as a person and learned the true meaning of the phrase, "where your heart truly lies" while Jack has allowed himself to be vulnerable and learned how to not keep things "closer to the vest." He is also no longer in Jones' debt.
Originally posted by Ericadawn
Sorry for the double-post, but it said my message was too long!Anway, despite how it will hurt Jack at first, I don't want him with Lizzie. I don't think it would be best for Jack in the long run, but that doesn't mean that it was a waste for him to go after Lizzie. Lizzie has grown as a person and learned the true meaning of the phrase, "where your heart truly lies" while Jack has allowed himself to be vulnerable and learned how to not keep things "closer to the vest." He is also no longer in Jones' debt.
why wont it be best for him in the long run? im just curios as to why you think that...i mean both of their characters developed more and truly became themsleves....why is that not good, especially for Jack...cuz for some reason a lot of people dont see him the way most of us do, so dont u htink it would be best for him to be with Liz to show the audience there is another side of him...?
I think the way Ted and Terry has written him and the way Johnny plays him, it will come across...not to everyone because let's face it, some people are just morons, but the fans will get it. I'm not saying that there shouldn't be J/Eness in the films...it makes things more interesting. However, when people are too alike, it has the real potential of becoming bad eventually because how do we know that what Liz is feeling is genuine love for Jack and not just lust or infatuation. She has a history of using men to get what she wants which works well in Jack's favor because he has a real masochistic bent...notice that he enjoys being slapped. He even liked that Liz shackled him yet how far is too far in pushing Jack Sparrow? Will there come a moment when she's fulfilled all her wants and it's no longer what she desires? She claimed to know the real Jack, that he was a good man inside, but then, she didn't trust him...didn't give him the opportunity to prove it. Yes, they could overcome that. They could overcome being too very independent individuals, but Elizabeth is still young and hasn't fully formed what she wants out of life. It's very possible that she'd want her own ship, that her life would naturally take her in a direction away from Jack and I'd just like it to happen before the separation was too painful for Jack. I don't want him relapsing into a state where he trusts no one and keeps everyone at a distance. At least if he loses her to Will, and Will is relieved of his curse, then Jack will know that she's in a good place and go out for a drink with Gibbs or something.
I dont think in DMC she had feelings of love. Of course she was feeling lust, but I think she had the potential to love him and that was she was afraid about adn backed out.
But then after the kiss I think she developed feelings that were not yet feelings of love, was more of confusion and denial.
But Erica...I dont think its all that good fro Jack to end the movie with a drink with Gibbs, fans would be "uh, so he chooses Gibbs.."
It will be Jack being his old ways again, in a negative way. Its unfair and I must say boring to have Jack change a bit and finaly letting go of material things then by the end of the movie have him be surrounded by women again and yada yada. It will be boring.
Originally posted by Ericadawn
Sorry for the double-post, but it said my message was too long!Anway, despite how it will hurt Jack at first, I don't want him with Lizzie. I don't think it would be best for Jack in the long run, but that doesn't mean that it was a waste for him to go after Lizzie. Lizzie has grown as a person and learned the true meaning of the phrase, "where your heart truly lies" while Jack has allowed himself to be vulnerable and learned how to not keep things "closer to the vest." He is also no longer in Jones' debt.
secondly he's not in Jones Debt but he appears to be mirroring him because of what happened to him..you think the audience are gonna want Jack to remain like that or will they want him to win out??
Thirdly I think there is something deeper going on with Jack..all this confusion he's having in DMC..all the wanting to continue his legacy and keep his line going on forever..the fact he doesn't want to die and Elizabeth strangely enough is intruding on his thoughts at a time like that..why?
..The way he behaves in movie 3..to me it all indicates his biological clock ticking away in his subconscious... That would make more sense of everything we have seen instead of it starting to go somewhere then backtracking..didn't you read that post where Terry or Ted said that they dislike movie 1 and 3 of star wars because they end in exactly the same way as each other? Well them having Jack leave on his own and W/E end up together..isn't that directly going against what they dislike about trilogies?? for some reason I think they have a twist up their sleeve when it comes to Jack Sparrow's ending of this trilogy.
Also ...Will's curse wont be lifted i dont think..he can only step on land once every 10 years..and if it was lifted..wat would happen to his father?? He has an eternity on that ship..I doubt Will would leave it for Elizabeth..
and they expect Elizabth to remain faithful for 10 years at a time?? BS..thats not freedom on her behalf..its like she's in a prison..funny isnt it that when will walks down the stairs to the jail cell there's a heartbeat over the music and IMO that resembles WHAT their mariage will come to symbolise which is imprisonment once he becomes captain of the dutchman, she wont be able to be free to do what she wants..she will have to wait about for Will..she cant sleep with anyone or even with anyone for 10 years at a time??? what a CRAP ending for Elizabeth..I dont buy that shit
..and in the cell, she DOESNT actually wait for him..she says she will but she doesnt..
Also Ericadawn..
she's learned where her heart truly lies in DMC?? well thats odd because throughout the whole of DMC she knows she loves Will...then suddenly at the end something happens..she in Terry's own words..thinks she's killed someone she may indeed love..and it reveals a part of herself she cant live with..oh heck I dont think thats her pirate side..Thats the part of her that uses Jack's caring and compassionate side against him and why is it hurting her this time? Is it because she now has feelings for him and that caring and compassionate (his most real) side of his is the one he most often shows for her?
Also what are you talking about by saying he didnt get a chance to show her his good side? and that she didnt give him that chance?...He did prove that he had a good side..he came back to the Pearl. She was the only one to see him leave and come back and thats why she gives that look of guilt once someone mentions his good side because she knows that his honest streak did actually win through and it was for her and everyone else..and she killed him, she killed that good man.
At the end T&T also make the point that Will waits for Elizabeth to make her final decision(which is Jack BTW) then he makes his and allows her to go after him..didnt they say the choice wouldn't be Elizabeth's alone?..and the closure is supposed to be in DMC itself..according to them anyway