Yujiro Hanma Vs Akuma

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Your using the 2nd energy scource argument to verify this argument, despite not having any evidence that Ryu has Vaccuume energy?

We'll get back to this later...

I got the vacuum energy from a win quote in double impact, Ignoring that. Your comparing shinkuu hadouken and satsu no ryu to regular ryu's hadouken, that decietful. Notice how you don't touch on the fact that Ryu punching saddler and causing the floor to cave in is beyond anything his regular hadouken is capable of in alpha the movie. If you wish to compare super arts let me point out that his shoryuken is possibly his strongest super art and it's not a projectile. So, again, can you show me ryu's hadouken surpassing his striking power without bringing in satsu no ryu and super arts?

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

I'm getting sick of quoting parts that are in this very thread, on this very same page Asthar... Here:

And I'm getting sick of you taking my quotes out of context, prior to that I explained what my point is.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

Your pretty sure now? you've JUST said that you think the Hadouken shouldn't be used in a debate (staple on reason here) to throw it out because of SOME people's bad habbits...

Are you serious, I told you even before you quoted this what my point was:

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar

Where did I say to toss it out completely, I know projectiles give you an advantage. But, to say a character wins because he has a projectile is fanboyish. If you look at the post I made responses to you will see my point.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

After Bison was dead, and after she was made aware of it... But it was not even starting to manifest at the time, in fact, she was dying...

Bison died AFTER THE PSYCHO DRIVE BLEW UP So, how could she have control of it after he died?

She was dying, I don't remeber this. Infact the other dolls were dying not her. Of course she's not going to be aware of it, why would bison tell her right off the bat? Even if she did not know, Bison said that the psycho drive would explode if cammy went out of control.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

You did the exact same thing.... Don't be hypocritical.... I asked for proof because, unlike me, you claimed that Capcom stated it, and based on that claim, you tried to pass it off as fact, I called it, and you faultered... All I did, was offer an alternate theory, if you have a problem with that, then thats your problem.

EDIT: One more thing Asthar, i don't go CLAIMING fact without direct evidence to support it, because without evidence, all it is is a theory... and theories can be disproven.

Wow, that's not even true, first of all I claimed it was channeling which you shot down when you said this:

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

Are you aware that they are not actually CHANNELING the element, rather manipulating their Ki to form various effects, this demonstrates not only the poer, but the control that the characters have over their Ki?

Now, it's a theory, where did you indicate it was a theory in that post?

Here's my vacuum energy evidence:

Shinkuu Hadoken: Shinkuu Hadoken! It's unstoppable power still amazes me!
Shinkuu Hadoken: The ultimate form of wave motion attack...Shinkuu...the power
of vacuum energy!

http://db.gamefaqs.com/coinop/arcade/file/street_fighter_3_second_impact_quotes.txt

Nevermind that shinkuu tranlates to empty air or vacuum.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
I got the vacuum energy from a win quote in double impact, Ignoring that. Your comparing shinkuu hadouken and satsu no ryu to regular ryu's hadouken, that decietful. Notice how you don't touch on the fact that Ryu punching saddler and causing the floor to cave in is beyond anything his regular hadouken is capable of in alpha the movie. If you wish to compare super arts let me point out that his shoryuken is possibly his strongest super art and it's not a projectile. So, again, can you show me ryu's hadouken surpassing his striking power without bringing in satsu no ryu and super arts?

WTF are you on about now? His hadoukens caused blastmarks wherever it was used, same with any other projectile in the whole movie... his punches didn't blast the area by themselves Asthar...

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
And I'm getting sick of you taking my quotes out of context, prior to that I explained what my point is.

And yet you went farther than what you claimed your point was... you said the evidnece shouldn't be used, thats a broad statement Asthar, and I'm not a fanboy, if you can't explain it to me, then you'll have absolutely no hope of convincing them...

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Are you serious, I told you even before you quoted this what my point was:

Already addressed...

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Bison died [B]AFTER THE PSYCHO DRIVE BLEW UP So, how could she have control of it after he died?

She was dying, I don't remeber this. Infact the other dolls were dying not her. Of course she's not going to be aware of it, why would bison tell her right off the bat? Even if she did not know, Bison said that the psycho drive would explode if cammy went out of control.[/B]

Her ending suggests she did this after his death... what are you going on?

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Wow, that's not even true, first of all I claimed it was channeling which you shot down when you said this:

Now, it's a theory, where did you indicate it was a theory in that post?

And where in my post does it say I claimed my theory as fact? Can't find it? maybe because, unlike you, I never said them to be...

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
WTF are you on about now? His hadoukens caused blastmarks wherever it was used, same with any other projectile in the whole movie... his punches didn't blast the area by themselves Asthar...

Obviously you need to watch the movie again, his hadoukens never did such a thing. The most powerful impact that his hadou caused was the destruction of a small room at interpol headquaters that's it. His striking power surpassed that when he caused the ground to collapse from the force of a punch. Nevermind that before casuing the floor to collapse, he shot a hadouken straight at the ground which did nothing to it.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

And yet you went farther than what you claimed your point was... you said the evidnece shouldn't be used, thats a broad statement Asthar, and I'm not a fanboy, if you can't explain it to me, then you'll have absolutely no hope of convincing them...

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

Her ending suggests she did this after his death... what are you going on?

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

And where in my post does it say I claimed my theory as fact? Can't find it? maybe because, unlike you, I never said them to be...

So, when you told me I'm wrong and it's not channeling, you mean't theoretically, bs darkstorm.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Obviously you need to watch the movie again, his hadoukens never did such a thing. The most powerful impact that his hadou caused was the destruction of a small room at interpol headquaters that's it. His striking power surpassed that when he caused the ground to collapse from the force of a punch. Nevermind that before casuing the floor to collapse, he shot a hadouken straight at the ground which did nothing to it.

Heh, righto... You think of it however you like then, I'm not waiisting another day in a ciorcular debate...

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
I wasn't even talking to you, or about this argument. I said projectiles shouldn't be used as the [B]ONLY reason for a character to surpass another one. Why are you having such a fit over an argument that I elaborated to you already and wasn't addressed to you?[/B]

So, because it wasn't addressed to me, I cannot answer it, even though this is a public forum? And i agree, the Projectile argument should never be the sole reason for determining a characters victory, but you never said that till now, thats why I was starting to interject, because I disagreed with that

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Her ending is not even canon, unless you believe cammy can beat bison? The psycho drive blew up resulting in the all the psycho energy stored inside it to go to bison, blowing him up. What are you on?!

Her taking over the Psycho Drive was still after Bison's Death, unless you beleive her limited mental will at that time could overpower Bison's will. I don't... And wasn't Charlie the one responsable for blowing up the Drive, not Cammy?

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
So, when you told me I'm wrong and it's not channeling, you mean't theoretically, bs darkstorm.

If you think so, but your assuming I meant fact, whereas I merely challenged one theory with another, you see... I never beleived that SF was ever based on Magical summoning properties, it ceased being one theory against another when you claimed FACT, I asked for proof of this FACT, and you faultered...

Don't go calling what I did BS Asthar, not when you actually made the claim and failed to back it up... 😠

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Heh, righto... You think of it however you like then, I'm not waiisting another day in a ciorcular debate...

It's not a circular debate, your just being a hard head. I offered you Proof That his striking power surpasses his hadouken, yet, your so fixated on your idea you refuse to listen. He never created blast craters with his hadouken. I gave you an example an you ignored it.That's not on me pal.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

So, because it wasn't addressed to me, I cannot answer it, even though this is a public forum? And i agree, the Projectile argument should never be the sole reason for determining a characters victory, but you never said that till now, thats why I was starting to interject, because I disagreed with that

I elaborated it you several times, yet, your having such a ***** fit you wouldn't accept it. Stop taking a line out of context, nevermind that I told you what I meant.your obviously playing devils advocate and your debating this point for the sake of argument.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

Her taking over the Psycho Drive was still after Bison's Death, unless you beleive her limited mental will at that time could overpower Bison's will. I don't... And wasn't Charlie the one responsable for blowing up the Drive, not Cammy?

Sigh, darkstorm, charlie blew up the psycho drive with bison.Charlie bison, and the psycho drive were destroyed at the same time. So, how can she operate it after bisons death if it was destroyed withy bison and charlie?

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

If you think so, but your assuming I meant fact, whereas I merely challenged one theory with another, you see... I never beleived that SF was ever based on Magical summoning properties, it ceased being one theory against another when you claimed FACT, I asked for proof of this FACT, and you faultered...

Don't go calling what I did BS Asthar, not when you actually made the claim and failed to back it up... 😠

Like I said, Bullshit, you never claimed your alternative explaination was a theory. You corrected my mistake and offered your. I said this:

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar

You are aware that in martial arts ki has priinciples based on elements, right?

Nevermind the various people able to channel elements in street fighter.

I was wrong about the channeling aspect, even though there are street fighters that can channel elements I.E. blanka. But, ken and ryu aren't the case.

This is how you responded:

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

Are you aware that they are not actually CHANNELING the element, rather manipulating their Ki to form various effects, this demonstrates not only the poer, but the control that the characters have over their Ki?

You corrected me with your own explanation, where does it say it's your theory? Maybe, if you said "I Think" or "Possibly" I would assume you were formulating a hypoythesis. You did neither, so, stop being a hypocrite. I was wrong about implying that channeling was a fact, I admitt that. But, your response is no different, and implys the same thing.

emperor, could you please say one single element that yujirous has the upper hand against akuma?
You said that stopping the earthquake was more impressive than destroying the ayers rock? Well , since ayers rock is the biggest rock in all world , and japans soil is between tectonics and is not very resistant like brasil soil ...
I never said yujirou wasnt fast , but his sprint time must be what? 100 m in 8 seconds? Akumas probaly is like 100m in less than one second , since he travelled from his island to japan in some seconds.
Fire power you are yet to give me anthing that yujirou has ever done that is as impressive as destroying a battleship with one attack.

Originally posted by Hoshi
emperor, could you please say one single element that yujirous has the upper hand against akuma?
You said that stopping the earthquake was more impressive than destroying the ayers rock? Well , since ayers rock is the biggest rock in all world , and japans soil is between tectonics and is not very resistant like brasil soil ...

True, but ayers rock is in australia. Yujiro could copy gouki's techniques,easily.

Originally posted by Hoshi

I never said yujirou wasnt fast , but his sprint time must be what? 100 m in 8 seconds? Akumas probaly is like 100m in less than one second , since he travelled from his island to japan in some seconds.
Fire power you are yet to give me anthing that yujirou has ever done that is as impressive as destroying a battleship with one attack.

Yujiro defeated a dinosaur sized elephant, and I'm sure he could destroy a battle ship if he wanted too. Speck was strong enough to destroy the steel frame of the statue of liberty. Yujiro is much more powerful then him, so, imagine what he could do. Wai till the manga progresses.

what do you mean that yujirou could copy goukis abilities?You cant assume that only because you consider him able to do it , goukis ki is much more developed than yujirous. A batleship sure is tougher than a part of the liberty statue.You cant say yujirou COULD destroy if he never did , you are assuming since he is yet the strongest character in grappler baki.
Even balrog killed an elephant with a punch

Originally posted by Hoshi
what do you mean that yujirou could copy goukis abilities?You cant assume that only because you consider him able to do it , goukis ki is much more developed than yujirous. A batleship sure is tougher than a part of the liberty statue.You cant say yujirou COULD destroy if he never did , you are assuming since he is yet the strongest character in grappler baki.
Even balrog killed an elephant with a punch

Balrog, killed a regular sized elephant, yujiro killed a Dinosaur sized elephant, Big diiference.

You, don't think yujiro can destroy a battle ship, remember when yujiro sliced a section of the hallway in the underground arena which resulted in half of the arena sanking into the ground. You don't think he can destroy a sunken battleship after doing that. Yujiro's ki is very high, nevernind he's not human.

of course yujirou is a human being , he has some demon/ogre thing in him , but he is a human, he may have surpassed human limits(of couree he did ).Just like gouki has the bloodline of the dark hadou /satsui no hadou .
Yujirou killed a dinossaur sized elephant?true, but it was balrog , a very weak street fighter character in comparisson to akuma who is probaly the strongest.
Which proof you have that yujirous ki is high? i never saw him powering himself like akuma does , the ogre thing maybe similar to akuma powering when in shin mode, but sure is weaker.
Grappler baki is completely different from sf universe , it is totally different levels.Lets catch a boxer from grappler baki for example , Ian Mcgregor(i dont remember his name completely) , he was the world heavyweight champion , but he couldnt finish someone weaker and less resistant than him with many of his strongest punchs , even I was better prepared phisically than the taishou of the motorcycle gang .M Bison/Balrog won his match against the former heavyweight champion with a single punch in 7 seconds.Garand , the pro wrestler couldnt kill an anaconda with his suplex , zangief killed kodiacs with his bare hands just to train a little, . All the womans in grappler bakis universe were a bunch of trash who couldnt even throw a decent punch , in sf universe chun li could knock out easily a heavyweight champion.The sf characters are suported by ki a lot, grappler baki is suported in its majority by tech and phisical power.

I still dont get how do you think yujirou would win this fight.

Originally posted by Hoshi
of course yujirou is a human being , he has some demon/ogre thing in him , but he is a human, he may have surpassed human limits(of couree he did ).Just like gouki has the bloodline of the dark hadou /satsui no hadou .

Gouki, doesn't have satsu no hadou in his bloodline. Yuor getting it confused, yujiro was never born a human, humans aren't born with fangs. Gouki surpassed human limits.

Originally posted by Hoshi

Yujirou killed a dinossaur sized elephant?true, but it was balrog , a very weak street fighter character in comparisson to akuma who is probaly the strongest.

Balrog is one of the strongest street fighter, and has the worlds strongest punch.

Originally posted by Hoshi

Which proof you have that yujirous ki is high? i never saw him powering himself like akuma does , the ogre thing maybe similar to akuma powering when in shin mode, but sure is weaker.

Ki is energy dude, and just becaus eit isn't visible doesn't mean it's not there. Also, you've never seen yujiro power up? Dude, he cause things to twist when he powers up.

Originally posted by Hoshi

Grappler baki is completely different from sf universe , it is totally different levels.Lets catch a boxer from grappler baki for example , Ian Mcgregor(i dont remember his name completely) , he was the world heavyweight champion , but he couldnt finish someone weaker and less resistant than him with many of his strongest punchs , even I was better prepared phisically than the taishou of the motorcycle gang .M Bison/Balrog won his match against the former heavyweight champion with a single punch in 7 seconds.Garand , the pro wrestler couldnt kill an anaconda with his suplex , zangief killed kodiacs with his bare hands just to train a little, . All the womans in grappler bakis universe were a bunch of trash who couldnt even throw a decent punch , in sf universe chun li could knock out easily a heavyweight champion.The sf characters are suported by ki a lot, grappler baki is suported in its majority by tech and phisical power.

I still dont get how do you think yujirou would win this fight.

-Hanayama's vice grip can exceed a dynamator
-Speck survived 200 meters underwater
-Speck destroyed the steel frame of the statue of liberty almost destroying it.
-Oliver twisted a steel door just by turning the knob too hard
-Oliver survived multiple shots from a "Shot Gun" at close range, the bullets barely peirced his skin
-A Kaihou punched a tunnel throught the abse of a moutain.
-Andrew garlon carved that huge deep crater in one year only (You know which one I'm talking about)
-Yujiro stopped an earthquake by punching it
-Retsu ran on water
-Doyle survived the electric chair with ease

Stop nitpicking, they are comparable.

in first place , oliver was wearing a bulletproof armor , second ,of course hanayamas grip could be measured by the dynamator , you can see that the one they used to measure had as its maximum capacity 100kg . Speck almost destroyed the steel frame of the statue with countless punchs, he couldnt do it with just one or two , he had to make his favorite combo which he himself called the apnea rush.The kaioh who punched a tunnel though a mountain didnt do that with a single punch, but with lots of time punching and kicking it .Doyle survived the chair easily , then why were his eyes bleeding??His mind and senses as you already know are in total control , possibiliting him surviving that thing , he didnt do it by toughness alone.Baki was knocked out cold by yanagi the poisoner , and the only power he really has is creating some vavuum in his hands , and shinkuu hadouken if I remember well has vacuum in it , meaning it is damn stronger than the power that knocked baki , one of the toughest characters in grappler baki.

Originally posted by Hoshi
in first place , oliver was wearing a bulletproof armor , second ,of course hanayamas grip could be measured by the dynamator , you can see that the one they used to measure had as its maximum capacity 100kg . Speck almost destroyed the steel frame of the statue with countless punchs, he couldnt do it with just one or two , he had to make his favorite combo which he himself called the apnea rush.The kaioh who punched a tunnel though a mountain didnt do that with a single punch, but with lots of time punching and kicking it .Doyle survived the chair easily , then why were his eyes bleeding??His mind and senses as you already know are in total control , possibiliting him surviving that thing , he didnt do it by toughness alone.Baki was knocked out cold by yanagi the poisoner , and the only power he really has is creating some vavuum in his hands , and shinkuu hadouken if I remember well has vacuum in it , meaning it is damn stronger than the power that knocked baki , one of the toughest characters in grappler baki.

1. Oliver did not have any armor, the fact you said that makes me question you read baki. He was stark naked when he was shoot. Oliver can never be puntured, the most you can do is cut his skin and draw blood. You can't cut into his muscle or impale him.

2. No, the cop said hanayama's"Vice Grip" Can't be measured with a dynameter.

3. Speck Destroyed the steel frame, and the statue almost fall apart before it was fixed just in time.

4.Yanagi ripped a specially made glass all that was capable of rebounding a shot from a rocket laucher. And when baki used his ogre power he beat the holy hell out of yanagi

5.Kaioh punching a tunnel through a mountain is still a huge feat.

sorry , i misunderstand oliver with other character , anyway , if you want to read grappler baki until the 6 book with english subtitles go to point blank tracker ,http://www.point-blank.cc:7001/index.html?page=6
than search for baki. the dynamometer of the cops goes at maximum of 100 kg

Thanks, But, I already have it. also, I found a translation site which I use for the other books. That's where I found out what's happening in son of the ogre. The person who had a bullet proof vest was slosky, the russian convict.

Emperor , i kno what you want to mean when you say GB and SF characters are comparable .But lets get 4 of the strongest(i know there are stronger characters) from grappler baki :Hanayama Kaouro , Shibukawa Gouki(My favorite character) , Oli the dark arrow , , orochi doppo. Now , lets get 4 of the strongest SF characters : Urien , Gill , Oro , , Vega/M Bison . Although shibukawa is a badass , the only real thing he does is attack the weak points of the human body, his great experience(60 YEARS) and borrow the enemy force due to his weak body(even i can beat him in a power struggle) , oro on the other side has a phisically weak body , but he is still able to lift huge rocks that even hanayama would have difficulties, he also has 140 years of experience more than 2 times shibukawas(in my opnion) greatest weapon . Oli , the guy who can take knifes and bullets in his body , a damn strong guy , but urien is like steel , he can even resist lava(i doubt oli can take that !) . Hanayama kaouro , with his grip is a hard opponent , but he has difficulties in destroying a single car , he takes lots of time to do it , bison would literally levitate the car and explode it.Orochi doppo , with his killing fists , a worth opponent , but he is too "human" , I never saw doppo doing anything too abnormal , nothing too impressive , but he still gave yujirou a run for his money , gill on the other hand is everything but human, the guy controls fire and ice , his seraph wing attack is and invisible force that can attack anywhere you are and with an incredible force, powerfull enough to surpass goukis shun goku satsu in powers terms , and can still ressurect once in a fight !!
GB and SF may look comparable , but when it comes down for the big feats they lose , and badly

Originally posted by Hoshi
Emperor , i kno what you want to mean when you say GB and SF characters are comparable .But lets get 4 of the strongest(i know there are stronger characters) from grappler baki :Hanayama Kaouro , Shibukawa Gouki(My favorite character) , Oli the dark arrow , , orochi doppo.

Why is hanayama there, he lost to Katsumi Orochi FFS.

Originally posted by Hoshi

Now , lets get 4 of the strongest SF characters : Urien , Gill , Oro , , Vega/M Bison .

Your comparing God tier Street Fighters to Mid & Lower Mid Tier "Grappler Baki" characters. The only one that's comparable is Oliva, and we haven't seen his full power.

Originally posted by Hoshi

Although shibukawa is a badass , the only real thing he does is attack the weak points of the human body, his great experience(60 YEARS) and borrow the enemy force due to his weak body(even i can beat him in a power struggle) , oro on the other side has a phisically weak body , but he is still able to lift huge rocks that even hanayama would have difficulties, he also has 140 years of experience more than 2 times shibukawas(in my opnion) greatest weapon

C'mon Hoshi, your comparing Shichubukawa Gouki to Oro, Compare Kaku KaiO or Someone else to Oro.Anyway, Oro is a Senin (Saint) He Trained as a hermit for 80 years straight and Hasn't trained hard for 50 years. He invented his own fighting principle, that he and he only can master let alone learn. Shichubukawa on the other hand has not become a senin/saint yet. He was indicated to be close according to Matsubi (I don't remeber if that's his name exactly). Shichubukawa is very strong, he overpowered oliver and twisted his arm as wlell. But, oliver wasn't serious. I think he can give gen a fight, but not gouki.

Originally posted by Hoshi

. Oli , the guy who can take knifes and bullets in his body , a damn strong guy , but urien is like steel , he can even resist lava(i doubt oli can take that !) .

What does taking lava have to do with winning a fight? Ryu, can't take lava, But he's ranked higher than urien.

Originally posted by Hoshi

Hanayama kaouro , with his grip is a hard opponent , but he has difficulties in destroying a single car , he takes lots of time to do it , bison would literally levitate the car and explode it.

I can't believe your comparing hanayama to bison, Hanayama is not that strong.

Originally posted by Hoshi

Orochi doppo , with his killing fists , a worth opponent , but he is too "human" , I never saw doppo doing anything too abnormal , nothing too impressive , but he still gave yujirou a run for his money , gill on the other hand is everything but human, the guy controls fire and ice , his seraph wing attack is and invisible force that can attack anywhere you are and with an incredible force, powerfull enough to surpass goukis shun goku satsu in powers terms , and can still ressurect once in a fight !!
GB and SF may look comparable , but when it comes down for the big feats they lose , and badly

Since when can regular humans kill a tiger, cut a titanium wire, defend against streams of fire and have punches that can't even be dodged?

Doppo hurt yujiro, as soon as yujiro got serious it was over.Doppo is a beats, your underestimating him. Must I list his techniqes?

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
capcom has stated that vampire svaiors weakest characters can destroy street fighter s strongest. Time and tiome again capcom has established that they are not in the same league.

I dunno if dante versus jedah would work, seems like another mismatch.

Originally posted by Remulous
Although Talbain is in my top 10 favs I don't think he can beat Ryu although there is no proof Ryu can beat him. The Dante Vs Jedah, who's suposed to win that?