Isn't the current version of WW the one that was made from the clay of the Earth? If so, then there IS a certain logic to her being vulnerable to things like bullets. Think about it, take a block of clay and punch it as hard as you can. But you can push tipped objects(even if they're not pinhead sharp) into that same block of clay with far less force than you used to punch it. You see what I'm getting at?
Originally posted by Dinalfos
Let's not forget that your ability to take pain is not directly related to theoretical durability. In many cases, there's also the psychological aspect, not to mention personal health.
Actually it seems what you are talking about is slightly different. Your talking about resistance to pain. You can resist pain but still manage to get messed up. You dont neccesarily need any strength for that.
I am simply talking in general stronger people tend to be more durable the stronger they are. An athelete is going to be more durable than an old women.
P.S. Spiderman should still be knife proof and bulletproof to some guns.
😒
Originally posted by Alfheim
Actually it seems what you are talking about is slightly different. Your talking about resistance to pain. You can resist pain but still manage to get messed up. You dont neccesarily need any strength for that.
I am simply talking in general stronger people tend to be more durable the stronger they are. An athelete is going to be more durable than an old women.
P.S. Spiderman should still be knife proof and bulletproof to some guns.
😒
Originally posted by darthgoober
Isn't the current version of WW the one that was made from the clay of the Earth? If so, then there IS a certain logic to her being vulnerable to things like bullets. Think about it, take a block of clay and punch it as hard as you can. But you can push tipped objects(even if they're not pinhead sharp) into that same block of clay with far less force than you used to punch it. You see what I'm getting at?
Well thats one way of looking at it. Anyway Dinalfos's explanation was adequate.
Originally posted by Alfheim
I am simply talking in general stronger people tend to be more durable the stronger they are. An athelete is going to be more durable than an old women.
yes, you are correct, the stronger someone is the denser their muscles become
however, since comic writers ignore many other of the sciencey things related with characters and their powers (speedsters are a great example) we should just assume that in the MU or DCU it doesn't
not to mention, I think you would have trouble proving that someone with Spidey's strength should be bulletproof or even knife proof. It should definatly be like hitting a slab of rock if you punched him though.
The differance between the blunt force of a hand and the pierce of a knife or bullet is the important differance here.
Do you know the ratio of muscle density to relatave strength?
Re: Re: Re: Are PIS and SvFL similar?
Originally posted by Dinalfos
That's what makes this so damn complicated. Is it not PIS that Spiderman beat the crap out of Firelord because Firelord ain't that durable, or is it PIS that Firelord is made out to be relatively vulnerable? I mean considering the fact that he IS a herald with cosmic powers flowing through him. He's done all sorts of crazy shit.
That's a wrong kind of logic. Spider-Man has fought two times (or more ?) against Surfer, and he was really doing pretty well. And Surfer felt his punches.
Surfer >>>> Firelord.
Oh I know very well that Spider-Man vs Surfer is out of character. I'm not dumb. But Spider-Man vs Firelord isn't.
Originally posted by Alfheim
Actually it seems what you are talking about is slightly different. Your talking about resistance to pain. You can resist pain but still manage to get messed up. You dont neccesarily need any strength for that.I am simply talking in general stronger people tend to be more durable the stronger they are. An athelete is going to be more durable than an old women.
P.S. Spiderman should still be knife proof and bulletproof to some guns.
😒
Yes, that's what I was talking about. I brought it up because of what Leonidas said. A lot of the exceptions to the strength-durability ratio can be attritbuted to will power, pain resistance or even an outside source like drugs/alchohol. Of course, there are plenty of cases that are just different. Some people have dense bones, for example. But in other cases, the guy with the strength (top tier fighter or not) has no real idea how to efficiently maximize his strength output. In other words, a lack of full access (yes, I've seen it happen to may highly skilled fighters) to their own strength (possibly due to some physical inefficiency). This allows a weaker opponent to take plenty of blows from a stronger guy, all the while seeming extremely durable for someone of his class.
Again, there are plenty of exceptions, but most of them can be explained.
Btw, I completey agree with you that in general stronger people are more durable the stronger they are. I've been trying to explain this to a lot of people in some other thread 😉 So eh, you're preaching to the choir, my friend.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Are PIS and SvFL similar?
Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
So basically you are saying : I have no idea how durable Firelord is, but he was a herald after all, so he must have at least crazy durability.That's a wrong kind of logic. Spider-Man has fought two times (or more ?) against Surfer, and he was really doing pretty well. And Surfer felt his punches.
Surfer >>>> Firelord.
Oh I know very well that Spider-Man vs Surfer is out of character. I'm not dumb. But Spider-Man vs Firelord isn't.
No, I'm not saying anything. I'm asking questions. There's a lot of stuff we can't really answer because of Marvel's blatant disregard for, you know, consistency.
No, I'm not saying anything. I'm asking questions. There's a lot of stuff we can't really answer because of Marvel's blatant disregard for, you know, consistency.
But do me a favour : forget for a second that Firelord was a (second rate) herald. Why would you think he's so freaking durable ?
Nobody would. Most people would say : Oh that flying torch dude. Yeah he seemed to be quite powerful, but I've seen them smarter, and in the end, he wasn't THAT tough.
But hey, he was a herald after all. Must have had at least an adamantium skeleton, a vibranium skin and an Uru staff. And two healing factors and cosmic awareness.
Yeah right. Speculation, based on nothing.
Originally posted by Kid KurdyOk fair enough.
But do me a favour : forget for a second that Firelord was a (second rate) herald. Why would you think he's so freaking durable ?
Nobody would. Most people would say : Oh that flying torch dude. Yeah he seemed to be quite powerful, but I've seen them smarter, and in the end, he wasn't THAT tough.
But hey, he was a herald after all. Must have had at least an adamantium skeleton, a vibranium skin and an Uru staff. And two healing factors and cosmic awareness.
Yeah right. Speculation, based on nothing. [/B]
Yeah, he was a second rate herald. I'm not saying he's too durable for Spidey, just that he probably should be. Especially given the range of abilities he has shown. He has used the gravitational forces of stars to travel through space, he doesn't need to eat, drink, breathe or sleep. The strange thing is that he CAN augment his physical power by using his cosmic energies, yet he can only do it to the extent of.......50 tons. According to the handbook. If you can even begin to augment yourself with cosmic energies (even if they serve a different purpose than strength), then the results should be as incalculable as the power cosmic energies themselves.
And ofcourse it's speculation. Never said otherwise. It's just something that should be taken into account.
Originally posted by Dinalfos
Yeah, he was a second rate herald. I'm not saying he's too durable for Spidey, just that he probably should be. Especially given the range of abilities he has shown. He has used the gravitational forces of stars to travel through space, he doesn't need to eat, drink, breathe or sleep. The strange thing is that he CAN augment his physical power by using his cosmic energies, yet he can only do it to the extent of.......50 tons. According to the handbook. If you can even begin to augment yourself with cosmic energies (even if they serve a different purpose than strength), then the results should be as incalculable as the power cosmic energies themselves.And ofcourse it's speculation. Never said otherwise. It's just something that should be taken into account.
Oi you. What have you to say about this? 😒
Originally posted by Alfheim
I am simply talking in general stronger people tend to be more durable the stronger they are. An athelete is going to be more durable than an old women.P.S. Spiderman should still be knife proof and bulletproof to some guns.
😒
Originally posted by Dinalfos
I don't understand what you're trying to say 😕Edit: what, I thought I already answered that?
No you have not you said that basically durability is psychological. That is resistance to pain. If you have strong mind you can resist pain but still get mashed up. If you are a complete coward it doesnt matter how big your muscles are insignificant damage will seem like a big deal.
All things being equal the stronger you are the more durable you are. An athelets will have more durability than a frail old women. I have already said that in boxing you strengthen muscles in the neck to help you take blows to the chin, you strengthen musles in the stomache to take blows to the stomache and ribs.
At the end of the day if someone can lift 15 tons and can lift the back of the train why the **** is he dodging some one more than 15 times weaker than him weilding a knife or a sword. Logic dictates that they are not going to be able to hurt him regardless of wether pain is psychological or not. 😒
Originally posted by Alfheim
At the end of the day if someone can lift 15 tons and can lift the back of the train why the **** is he dodging some one more than 15 times weaker than him weilding a knife or a sword. Logic dictates that they are not going to be able to hurt him regardless of wether pain is psychological or not. 😒
I don't know if flesh could ever become dense enough to be knife proof and also be usable by an organic being.
how would spiderman move and breath if all of his abdominal muscles were solid as rock?
Oh apologies Dina you have relpied to my post I didn't see it. 😮
Originally posted by Dinalfos
Btw, I completey agree with you that in general stronger people are more durable the stronger they are. I've been trying to explain this to a lot of people in some other thread 😉 So eh, you're preaching to the choir, my friend.
So Spiderman should be knifeproof at least?
Originally posted by Alfheim
No you have not you said that basically durability is psychological. That is resistance to pain. If you have strong mind you can resist pain but still get mashed up. If you are a complete coward it doesnt matter how big your muscles are insignificant damage will seem like a big deal.All things being equal the stronger you are the more durable you are. An athelets will have more durability than a frail old women. I have already said that in boxing you strengthen muscles in the neck to help you take blows to the chin, you strengthen musles in the stomache to take blows to the stomache and ribs.
At the end of the day if someone can lift 15 tons and can lift the back of the train why the **** is he dodging some one more than 15 times weaker than him weilding a knife or a sword. Logic dictates that they are not going to be able to hurt him regardless of wether pain is psychological or not. 😒
Ehm, no I didn't say that 😕
I pointed out some possible exceptions and the reason behind them. Also, you're taking things out of context. Read carefully.
Originally posted by Dinalfos
Ehm, no I didn't say that 😕I pointed out some possible exceptions and the reason behind them. Also, you're taking things out of context. Read carefully.
Well at any rate you agreed with me.
Originally posted by Dinalfos
Btw, I completey agree with you that in general stronger people are more durable the stronger they are. I've been trying to explain this to a lot of people in some other thread 😉 So eh, you're preaching to the choir, my friend.
So shouldn't Spiderman be at least knifeproof.