Marvel Universe: THE END Discussion Thread

Great thread BTW
i have learned alot

Leo did post a scan of page 14,but no one brought up that Anthro states that their skill and experience determine how well the entity is represented
even finite beings like galactus use M-bodies, to make an appearence somwhere,
it might not even be the absract or finite being in question
The absrtact determines how much input they give
and Fractals skill and experience determine how well it represents the entity

if the argument is they only manifest physical appearence,why would galactus's M-body do anything? there must have been a give and take of energies by galactus and the M-body and the M-body can do everything the big G can(or whatever skill and experience of the Fractals have,and what input galactus gave it)
i do not beleive that if a Galactus M-body is destroyed,The original Galactus is also destroyed
i have to go with that on panel information and with all the great points brought up,unless someone official says Quasar is not canon or to be dismissed well

Originally posted by starlock
Great thread BTW
i have learned alot

Leo did post a scan of page 14,but no one brought up that Anthro states that their skill and experience determine how well the entity is represented
even finite beings like galactus use M-bodies, to make an appearence somwhere,
it might not even be the absract or finite being in question
The absrtact determines how much input they give
and Fractals skill and experience determine how well it represents the entity

if the argument is they only manifest physical appearence,why would galactus's M-body do anything? there must have been a give and take of energies by galactus and the M-body and the M-body can do everything the big G can(or whatever skill and experience of the Fractals have,and what input galactus gave it)
i do not beleive that if a Galactus M-body is destroyed,The original Galactus is also destroyed
i have to go with that on panel information and with all the great points brought up,unless someone official says Quasar is not canon or to be dismissed well

i know what you're talking about now. 🙂

the argument was never whether the m-body was ONLY the physical appearance, but rather how much of the essence was contained in the mbody.

mm says that the mbody=the essence (i think . . .) anyway, he says kill the mbody, kill the essence but that somehow concept remains as a ghost or something . . . 😕

anyway, i say kill the mbody, and it's no big deal. the essence is seperate from (though it CAN be part of) the mbody. if someone wipes out the whole universe, they kill eternity's essence. if someone wipes out the mbody of eternity while it is manifested WITHIN the universe, the essence will remain and can simply reform a new mbody.

you SOUND like you agree with me, but i'm not really sure . . . 😬

Originally posted by starlock
Quasar Issue#37 Page 14 discussed?
Can someone post a scan of it?

QUASAR-Were looking for Eternity,my friend here thinks he may found here.

ANTHRO - Yes He Can...,in a sense.

ANTHRO--My people and i are living fractals,able to shape ourselves in an infinite manner, we serve as the manifestation-bodies for beings who have no physical forms.

QUASAR- So i gathered but why?

ANTHRO-We have a symbiotic relationship with the abstact beings.An exchange of energies that you physicals would not comprehend.

QUASAR- what about Galactus and some of these guys---they do have bodies of their own.

ANTHRO- Certain powerfull physical entities also enlist our services so they may be able to put in an appearence somwhere without actually attending.

ANTHRO-WE GIVE OUR NEWBORNS THE FINiTE BEINGS TO PRACTICE ON BEFORE THEY ARE ALLOWED TO MANIFEST ABSRACT BEINGS.

ANTHO-THE SKILL AND EXPERIENCE OF THE PARTICULAR MANIFESTER DETERMINES HOW WELL THE ENTITY IS REPRESENTED

The page ends
i read the whole thread did i miss this ?

Good morning

Yes leo i definetly agree with you,it is clear to me from page 14 and 15,from Quasar #37

And sorry GUY222 according to the contemplator the entity represents the living tribunal means he has an M=body
i can take the word of a elder of the universe who's name is a huge hint that he knows alot of things

I came into this thread with a diiferent point of view,but with this evidence i have to say my view has changed

And yes i read thru the whole thread,and looked objectively at all views on the matter

oh and BTW the writer of issue #37 of Quasar was Mark Gruenwald,who was well respected on alot of comics,

Originally posted by starlock
Yes leo i definetly agree with you,it is clear to me from page 14 and 15,from Quasar #37

And sorry GUY222 according to the contemplator the entity represents the living tribunal means he has an M=body
i can take the word of a elder of the universe who's name is a huge hint that he knows alot of things

I came into this thread with a diiferent point of view,but with this evidence i have to say my view has changed

And yes i read thru the whole thread,and looked objectively at all views on the matter

👆

Going thru some quasar comics and well,at the time Quasar was a respected comic,with alot of fun science facts ,so unless a majority can convince me that the run on quasar with the M-body information is put in the disregaurd that writers run catergory, the comic still stands

We cant take comments of the comic we like and disregaurd other aspects,when the character thats in charge of the dimension of manifestations is telling quasar the information

Originally posted by leonidas
i know what you're talking about now. 🙂

the argument was never whether the m-body was ONLY the physical appearance, but rather how much of the essence was contained in the mbody.

mm says that the mbody=the essence (i think . . .) anyway, he says kill the mbody, kill the essence but that somehow concept remains as a ghost or something . . . 😕

anyway, i say kill the mbody, and it's no big deal. the essence is seperate from (though it CAN be part of) the mbody. if someone wipes out the whole universe, they kill eternity's essence. if someone wipes out the mbody of eternity while it is manifested WITHIN the universe, the essence will remain and can simply reform a new mbody.

you SOUND like you agree with me, but i'm not really sure . . . 😬

Originally posted by Juntai
Sounds reasonable.

to some. 🙂

Originally posted by illadelph12
On the argument of whether an M-Body is the totality of an abstract:

Don't forget, Abstracts are [b]concepts. The M-body's are simply these concepts taking on a tangible form so that they can interact on the physical plane. The reason why Eternity can enter the universe and walk around in an M-body within, well, "himself", is because he's not the actual physical universe he's the embodiment of the concept of infinite universal time/existence, taking on a physical form within an M-Body. For a layman's analogy (and for Matrix fans), the M-body's are equivalent to the representations Neo, Morpheus, etc. take on when they were "jacked in" to the Matrix, just as when the Abstracts "jack in" to the physical plane. While on the physical plane the Abstracts, while very powerful, are still subject to some of the physical laws. They can break and control some of the rules on this plane, but, when confronted with a powerful enough advesary/power that can override their position, they can fall victim while in physical form. Like in the Matrix (and I'm sorry for using the film as an analogy, but it seems like the easiest, most logical comparison that all onlookers could relate to), the sentience of a person who is 'jacked in' to the physical plane can be terminated or usurped via the connection from within the program (like Barnes in Reloaded and Revolutions when Smith overwrote his body and took control of him in the real world, or like when anyone within the Matrix dies in the program and by extension dies in the real world). I believe, like in the Matrix, that the Abstracts connection to the physical plane works both ways. They can interact on the physical plane by taking on an m-body, but in so doing they make themselves subject to some of the vulnerabilities of being corporeal.

So, to this point,

Mr. Master actually does have logic behind his view,

and I have to say I side with him. [/B]

👆

Originally posted by illadelph12
Now, for whether Thanos absorbed a Universe or Multiverse. I have to side with Leonidas here (to an extent). While it's very ambiguous as to what more could threaten Thanos after absorbing the universes' heroes, Eternity, Infinity, and the Living Tribunal, and also, per previous on panel occurrences when an Abstracts M-body (i.e. Anamoly, Eternity) is overtaken by a being of power (Maelstrom, Entropy, or Thanos), historically, the prevailing antagonist has usurped that abstracts position (Maelstrom becoming Anamoly, Thanos and Entropy becoming Eternity). However, in those instances, on panel, it is actually depicted that those beings took on that role. In this occurrence during The End Thanos absorbs the 3 M-bodies but it's never stated that he usurped their roles as in the other instances. Since it's not stated (though it could be very easily and logically deduced), you can not definitively state that after that act Thanos had taken on the role of Eternity, Infinity, and Living Tribunal simultaneously. It's not stated or 'depicted'. Coming to that conclusion is purely opinion and not supported on panel. What is stated on panel is that, after absorbing the assembled heroes and abstracts, Thanos, in a calculated fit of rage, continued to absorb until nothing was left that could defy him.

The question here is:

Until nothing was left of what?

Mr. Master's contention is the multiverse, which, though an unpopular opinion, is actually backed by some logical deduction (if Eternity, Infinity [b]and the LT were absorbed and usurped by Thanos, and per multiple historical accounts, usurping the role of an Abstract grants you embodiment of that concept's role, then, logically, by absorbing the 3 he became the 3; he became the universe and the judge of the universe).

However, the weight of the evidence, even with the logical deduction above, points more to it simply being a universal act. It's stated by Thanos himself in his conversation with Warlock after the fact the event was universal, and there is no evidence anywhere to show the extent was anything greater than that of the universe which Thanos occupied. If he'd absorbed all things Marvel as Mr. Master infers then Warlock, Gamora, and Atleza would have not been safe in Atleza's realm and outside of the influence of the HOTU as it is part of Marvel. It was a universal event per the balance of the evidence. There are many ways to interpret Thanos's statement that "he continued to absorb until nothing remained". It could be a company wide "nothing remained" or a universal "nothing remained". Warlock's survival and Thanos's own accounts of ending the universe gives the extent being only universal the nod until further evidence is provided.

On that argument, I side with Leonidas.[/b]

😗

Are there any other comics that in any detail explain M-bodies,except Quasar?
That would be a great help,if not i cant disreguard what is said in Quasar #37, it is even told that their skill and experience will determine how well the entity is represented

Oh and LT has M-bodies unless Quasar # 37 is disregaurded,what other meaning could there be?

I would plead to people to read the comic Quasar #37,not just the scans of certain pages

Originally posted by starlock
Are there any other comics that in any detail explain M-bodies,except Quasar?
That would be a great help,if not i cant disreguard what is said in Quasar #37, it is even told that their skill and experience will determine how well the entity is represented

"Some Entities have very SPECIFIC Requirements, others give us FREER REIGN"

"Frequently we FORM the MANIFESTATION-BODY to the MENTAL IMAGE of the Beholder"

He gives Quasar an example of what he's talking about:

Changes in the Physical appearance of the Abstract, Nothing more.

Originally posted by starlock
I would plead to people to read the comic Quasar #37,not just the scans of certain pages

You should start with yourself then.

Originally posted by Mr Master
"Some Entities have very SPECIFIC Requirements, others give us FREER REIGN"

"Frequently we FORM the MANIFESTATION-BODY to the MENTAL IMAGE of the Beholder"

He gives Quasar an example of what he's talking about:

Changes in the Physical appearance of the Abstract, Nothing more.

You should start with yourself then.

Mr Master you should know better,you know i read that comic,and dont be a wise ass, please play nice ,i was bieng sincere and asking if M-bodies are discussed elsewhere,and for people to read the comic not just scans

All you have done is proven LT has an M-body and that i am right about what an m-body represents.

Originally posted by starlock
Yes leo i definetly agree with you,it is clear to me from page 14 and 15,from Quasar #37

And sorry GUY222 according to the contemplator the entity represents the living tribunal means he has an M=body
i can take the word of a elder of the universe who's name is a huge hint that he knows alot of things

I came into this thread with a diiferent point of view,but with this evidence i have to say my view has changed

And yes i read thru the whole thread,and looked objectively at all views on the matter

Good afternoon. After a day of fussing, I can relax. I know about M-bodies. My views just different than my peers. Its good to come to a understanding. Best part of debating 🙂

Originally posted by guy222
Good afternoon. After a day of fussing, I can relax. I know about M-bodies. My views just different than my peers. Its good to come to a understanding. Best part of debating 🙂

Hey Nice sig, did you make it yourself? anyway Awesome!

If you read Quasar #37 and you read the contemplator say"that being sitting in judgement REPRESENTS the Living Tribunal" what other meaning is there? He is an M-body

Its ok ,if anybody beats LT you can always say it was his M-body hehe
it is hard to be fair when your favorite character is in question but at least you are polite and have some manners in debating
as always its a pleasure GUY222 🙂

Originally posted by starlock
Mr Master you should know better,you know i read that comic,and dont be a wise ass, please play nice ,i was bieng sincere and asking if M-bodies are discussed elsewhere,and for people to read the comic not just scans

I don't think you're being sincere.

I think you're trolling me again.

You keep posting this rubbish, telling people to read the comic and not just the scans, while at the same time disagreeing with my points, it's obvious.

What have you added?

Nothing.

You came in gave your props to who ever is debating against me, as usual, and then posted a bit of gibberish concerning your reasons, I ignored it.

Then I post a thank you to a true debater that AGREED with my stance on the M-Bodys.

You post again, your disagreement with my point and then proceed to tell others to not pay attention to my statements and scans and go read the comic for themselves, (in a deceptive manner of course)

all this while you yourself have NO idea what the heck your talking about concerning Quasar #37.

😆

Originally posted by starlock
All you have done is proven LT has an M-body and that i am right about what an m-body represents.

As you wish.

Originally posted by starlock
Hey Nice sig, did you make it yourself? anyway Awesome!

If you read Quasar #37 and you read the contemplator say"that being sitting in judgement REPRESENTS the Living Tribunal" what other meaning is there? He is an M-body

Its ok ,if anybody beats LT you can always say it was his M-body hehe
it is hard to be fair when your favorite character is in question but at least you are polite and have some manners in debating
as always its a pleasure GUY222 🙂

Lord Sidious will second that. He is quite knowledgeable. Guy is fair

Originally posted by starlock
If you read Quasar #37 and you read the contemplator say"that being sitting in judgement REPRESENTS the Living Tribunal" what other meaning is there? He is an M-body

Its ok ,if anybody beats LT you can always say it was his M-body hehe

My point exactly, (doing it again) 🙂

Sorry L,

but the thread has been infected.

no more posting for me. 😎

Originally posted by starlock
Hey Nice sig, did you make it yourself? anyway Awesome!

If you read Quasar #37 and you read the contemplator say"that being sitting in judgement REPRESENTS the Living Tribunal" what other meaning is there? He is an M-body

Its ok ,if anybody beats LT you can always say it was his M-body hehe
it is hard to be fair when your favorite character is in question but at least you are polite and have some manners in debating
as always its a pleasure GUY222 🙂

I had a lil help 🙂 Thank u. I read it. LT is an amazing character to champion. Anyone can see the avatar, they know I admire LT. Its a pleasure to know u as well.