Marvel Universe: THE END Discussion Thread

Originally posted by Mr Master
Well of course when you rationalize everything to fit the way you see it, I don't blame you for seeing it that way.

i don't blame you for doing the same thing. 🙂

Thanos battles Eternity's M-body WITHIN the Universe,

he confronts it and approaches it. different from showing a full battle between them. 🙂

Thanos defeats the M-body WITHIN the Universe,

never shown. we see the mbody non-functioning AFTER their confrontation. we never SEE the battle. it takes place on the page with the 'hole in the universe'. where does that hole go? 😕 beats me . . .

Thanos Transfers the Power and Status of the M-body INTO Himself,

we can infer that. i say it's because the sentience was overcome off panel. you say it's because he physically beat the mbody on that same page. but why not SHOW the physical battle? would have been cool. i say it's because we as readers are meant to think -- the battle is BEYOND us, we can't perceive such a clash. so they didn't show it. they showed the result.

Thanos becomes the actual Living UNIVERSE!

correct! 😄

Originally posted by Mr Master
Thanos was meant to Absorb the Multiverse, that's how TOAA wanted it.

still don't see how you make that deduction when no where is it said. 🙁

Besides, in the end he absorbed more than he wanted to in his frenzy.

you just said he was MEANT to absorb the multiverse? now it was an accident . . .? 😕

So you can't say Thanos absorbed a Universe cause it was a Universal Flaw.

sure i can. 😛 he beat the mbody, the concept of eternity still existed (this is different from the IG instance -- thanos did NOT usurp eternity's position so it would have been easy for the remaining sentience to reform another mbody at some time as mephsto and anomaly did) so instead of waiting around for that to happen, thanos absorbed the rest of the sentience/universe. or, because others existed still in the universe who MAY have been 'follish' enough to believe they could challenge him.

fools? yes. does that change the fact that they MAY have tried to challenge him? ❌

Perhaps if he had not been in a Rage that would have been possible but instead ...

"Nothing Remained" [/B]

but a LOT remained. the entire OMNIVERSE remained. he didn't acomplish anything by stopping at the multiverse. how do you arbitarily decide (when it is never mentioned) that the flaw would have stopped at JUST the multiverse? why?

the drawback of making things more moplex than they need to be.

you can SAY he was meant to absorb the multiverse. but how do you know? how did HE know that he had to stop -- while in full rage -- at JUST the multiverse? did he not have the POWER to absorb the omniverse? do we limit the power he had?

your own site says it happened in an alternate earth. the official guide to alternate earth's says the same. would he have been MEANT to destroy universes that LACKED the flaw? universe is REPEATEDLY mentioned in the series. you say universe=multiverse. but marvel is an OMNIVERSE. so why does it mean multiverse in THIS case?

it is so much easier and makes sense in every way (to me 🙂 ) to say he absorbed the universe, as the series says, as the bios reaffirm. marvel itself says SOME of what happened MAY have been duplicated in the 616. certainly that's a far cry from saying the multiverse was rewritten, an event that obviously would have impacted 616.

anyway bro, i think we've conducted ourselves well, and presented our opinions well, if perahaps a bit confusingly at times. 😄 i think on-lookers have more than enough and i'd love to read someone else's thoughts on this insane topic!

i'm heading on a couple days vacation tomorrow so won't be around for a few days. i don't think i have anything new to add anyways and i hate talking in circles. 🙂

as always, it's been fun and very interesting. 🙂

My God...

I'll have to return to this madness at a later time.

I'm not finished.

I'm beginning to sense it's not going to make a difference though.

ALL my On Panel proof is disputed by specualtion, that conforms to a specific view.

I'll give you one example why I'm tiring:

AGAIN:

HOW did Thanos become the Actual TOTALITY of the Universe by replacing this M-body that confronted Thanos WITHIN the Universe? hum

Is this outside the Universe?

I think not.

Thanos transfers the Life-Force of the Eternity M-body (which is INSIDE the Universe) into himself and becomes the Actual ENITRE Universe.

"Thanos has now USURPED Eternity's rightful position,

as the CENTER of ALL REALITY"

You speculated away about this event.

"The Battle took place Off Panel"

(There was no prolonged battle, Thanos one shot Eternity On Panel)

"Eternity and Thanos went into a Hole?" confused1

Where are you getting this from?

All I see is Thanos with the IG vs the M-body of Eternity INSIDE the Universe.

They confront each other and the clash creates an explosion type radiance.

(NOT a Hole)

Thanos wins, Thanos transfers the Sentience and Life-Force of the M-body of Eternity from WITHIN the Universe,

Thanos becomes the actual Universe, by repalcing the M-body which was INSIDE the Universe.

Where is it stated or depicted that they battled in another Plane?

Where is it stated or depicted that they went into a "Hole?" 😕

You may come back with the same wity speculation, but I'll stick to what is clearly depicted On Panel and stated in Eternity's and Thanos's bio.

I'll address the rest later on.

Originally posted by Mr Master

You speculated away about this event.

"The Battle took place Off Panel"

(There was no prolonged battle, Thanos one shot Eternity On Panel)

"Eternity and Thanos went into a Hole?" confused1

the 'explosion' page is a spiral. eternity and thanos disappear from view. we never see the battle.

Where are you getting this from?

😕

we never SEE thanos win. we see before, and after. the battle is NOT illustrated. at all.

All I see is Thanos with the IG vs the M-body of Eternity INSIDE the Universe.

BEFORE they actually conflict.

They confront each other and the clash creates an explosion type radiance.

a spiralling radiance that hides them. to me, it looks an awful lot like a hole, but even if you don't see it that way, you have to admit that the characters are not visible. even ss can't understand what is happening during the battle. so if ss can't see them, just where did they go . . .? aw only knows because of the gems.

Thanos wins, Thanos transfers the Sentience and Life-Force of the M-body of Eternity from WITHIN the Universe,

that's possible, and doesn't conflict with what i said at all. still, we don't SEE eternity's defeat. we see a bunch of energy coalescing, but that's it. there is no proof depicted whatsoever that the sentience was inside the mbody because we don't see the battle. we agree the sentience was defeated and usurped. i say it doesn't matter that the mbody was beaten or overcome. you say usurping the sentience was CONTINGENT on beating the mbody.

we agree on the result. we differ on WHY/HOW it happened.

Thanos becomes the actual Universe, by repalcing the M-body which was INSIDE the Universe.

thanos took a NEW mbody. the old one wasn't replaced -- it was in stasis.

Where is it stated or depicted that they battled in another Plane?

we don't see the battle. based on other cosmic battles, not hard to say they battled across planes.

Where is it stated or depicted that they went into a "Hole?" 😕

spiral that shrinks appears to be a hole. again, doesn't matter if you see it that way. ss couldn't perceive them, so . . . where DID they go?

You may come back with the same wity speculation, but I'll stick to what is clearly depicted On Panel and stated in Eternity's and Thanos's bio.

i try to be witty for the spectators. 🙂

does it say in a bio that thanos gained universal sentience because it defeated the mbody of eternity? does it say when eternity's mbody fell its sentience fell with it?

Originally posted by illadelph12
My God...

😆

deep end of the pool indeed . . . 😆

it LOOKS complicated. it really isn't. i think in THE END thanos absorbed an eternity mbody then went on to absorb the 'actual' universe.

an mbody is simply a physical representation of the ACTUAL entity, so destroying an mbody does NOT destroy the concept. destroy the eternity mbody would NOT destroy the universe, so thanos would have needed to continue to absorb the universe to destroy it. absorbing was a good idea anyway, because there were still some 'foolish beings' in existence who MAY have dared to challenge him. (that's why the huge discussion on the nature of mbodies. 🙂 )

to say he absorbed the multiverse as my esteemed opponent says is not supported anywhere on panel and has plenty of problems associated with it as i've attempted to point out -- one of the big ones being why stop at JUST the multiverse and NOT the entire OMNIVERSE? but i pointed out lots of other things that i perceive as problems. terminology throughout the series says universe, so immediately it takes speculation to take the multiversal view which contradicts all the terminology on the series AND in the marvel bios as well which ALSO say universe.

that's the coles notes version of my side. 😄

[Very deep end old friend... 😄]

Ok, after reading through this epic debate and taking everything into consideration, my opinion is you're both right.

Now, let me explain why:

On the argument of whether an M-Body is the totality of an abstract:

The answer is yes, and no.

We're mixing terms here gentlemen.

Don't forget, Abstracts are concepts. The M-body's are simply these concepts taking on a tangible form so that they can interact on the physical plane. The reason why Eternity can enter the universe and walk around in an M-body within, well, "himself", is because he's not the actual physical universe he's the embodiment of the concept of infinite universal time/existence, taking on a physical form within an M-Body. For a layman's analogy (and for Matrix fans), the M-body's are equivalent to the representations Neo, Morpheus, etc. take on when they were "jacked in" to the Matrix, just as when the Abstracts "jack in" to the physical plane. While on the physical plane the Abstracts, while very powerful, are still subject to some of the physical laws. They can break and control some of the rules on this plane, but, when confronted with a powerful enough advesary/power that can override their position, they can fall victim while in physical form. Like in the Matrix (and I'm sorry for using the film as an analogy, but it seems like the easiest, most logical comparison that all onlookers could relate to), the sentience of a person who is 'jacked in' to the physical plane can be terminated or usurped via the connection from within the program (like Barnes in Reloaded and Revolutions when Smith overwrote his body and took control of him in the real world, or like when anyone within the Matrix dies in the program and by extension dies in the real world). I believe, like in the Matrix, that the Abstracts connection to the physical plane works both ways. They can interact on the physical plane by taking on an m-body, but in so doing they make themselves subject to some of the vulnerabilities of being corporeal.

So, to this point, Mr. Master actually does have logic behind his view, and I have to say I side with him.

Now, for whether Thanos absorbed a Universe or Multiverse. I have to side with Leonidas here (to an extent). While it's very ambiguous as to what more could threaten Thanos after absorbing the universes' heroes, Eternity, Infinity, and the Living Tribunal, and also, per previous on panel occurrences when an Abstracts M-body (i.e. Anamoly, Eternity) is overtaken by a being of power (Maelstrom, Entropy, or Thanos), historically, the prevailing antagonist has usurped that abstracts position (Maelstrom becoming Anamoly, Thanos and Entropy becoming Eternity). However, in those instances, on panel, it is actually depicted that those beings took on that role. In this occurrence during The End Thanos absorbs the 3 M-bodies but it's never stated that he usurped their roles as in the other instances. Since it's not stated (though it could be very easily and logically deduced), you can not definitively state that after that act Thanos had taken on the role of Eternity, Infinity, and Living Tribunal simultaneously. It's not stated or 'depicted'. Coming to that conclusion is purely opinion and not supported on panel. What is stated on panel is that, after absorbing the assembled heroes and abstracts, Thanos, in a calculated fit of rage, continued to absorb until nothing was left that could defy him.

The question here is:

Until nothing was left of what?

Mr. Master's contention is the multiverse, which, though an unpopular opinion, is actually backed by some logical deduction (if Eternity, Infinity and the LT were absorbed and usurped by Thanos, and per multiple historical accounts, usurping the role of an Abstract grants you embodiment of that concept's role, then, logically, by absorbing the 3 he became the 3; he became the universe and the judge of the universe).

However, the weight of the evidence, even with the logical deduction above, points more to it simply being a universal act. It's stated by Thanos himself in his conversation with Warlock after the fact the event was universal, and there is no evidence anywhere to show the extent was anything greater than that of the universe which Thanos occupied. If he'd absorbed all things Marvel as Mr. Master infers then Warlock, Gamora, and Atleza would have not been safe in Atleza's realm and outside of the influence of the HOTU as it is part of Marvel. It was a universal event per the balance of the evidence. There are many ways to interpret Thanos's statement that "he continued to absorb until nothing remained". It could be a company wide "nothing remained" or a universal "nothing remained". Warlock's survival and Thanos's own accounts of ending the universe gives the extent being only universal the nod until further evidence is provided.

On that argument, I side with Leonidas.

So, to sum it up:

M-Body's are how a concept interacts on the physical plane, and while connected to the physical plane they make themselves vulnerable (like being jacked into the Matrix... 😆 ). They can interact with the physical plane, but the physical plane can also interact with them, and with enough exertion of power a physical being can overtake and redefine their conceptualization in their own image (per multiple on panel accounts, so essentially, you can pull an Agent Smith in the films The Matrix Reloaded/Revolutions and overwrite the sentience of a concept with your own while they are connected to the physical plane since it's a two way connection, or you can outright 'kill' it.)

As for The End, though it can be interpreted otherwise, the overwhelming weight of the evidence points to the event simply being universal. There are a couple of points within the narration which can be interpreted in multiple ways, but when you take the entirety of the story into account rather than single out the couple of contradicting terms, it would seem apparent that the event was universal in scale, and nothing more.

Now I'm going to sleep with my girlfriend.

Be back tomorrow to see if I didn't cover anything.

This is from a debate I had with a fellow poster, it concerns the End.

This is interesting and I think I got something.

"Thanos destroyed all that existed" "Restored Reality"

This right here can be alluding to it being a Multiverse.

(exerpt from the 2006 Handbook Bio LT)

Then we get, "the recreated Universe lacked the terminal flaw"

Since every Universe was re-created it makes sense that the most important Universe was recreated also withOUT the "Flaw" that would have spread and ended the Multiverse, or it can directly mean "the Universe" as in the Marvel Multiverse (I have my reasons in the NEXT Post)

Hence:

"For in the absence of Life there can be no Death"

He was definitely talking about the Multiverse here, because Death profits from one Universe dying, so it couldn't be that: (perhaps it's not the same Death OUTSIDE the Multiverse, things are different OUTSIDE the Multiverse, I have scans from the New Universe, Classic Ultraverse, Rune, Dr Who

"The Eons-Old Stalemate between Eternity and ME has ENDED.

By MY MACHINATIONS, the UNIVERSE shall be MINE"

Continues in the next post ....

Look at Abraxas' bio in the 2006 Handbook:

Reed Nullified "The Universe" itself, "The Universe" restored itself to it's previous normality, with Abraxas no where to be found"

Now you KNOW Reed Re-Created the Multiverse, NO mention of it, no mention of the word "Multiverse" at all. And the whole freaking story dealt with the Multiverse collapsing, no mention of the other Universes that were damaged, nothing.

"The Universe" ... can mean, The Multiverse.

The entrance to the Cosmic Vortes

The Cosmic Vortex

Although it appears that way visually in the Cosmic Vortex, it is not so when traveling from one Universe to another.

Warlock was given that special opportunity to enter the Cosmic Vortex through a special Portal made by Eternity/Infinity.

But ALL Universes are as close the hairs on our heads.

When the Living Laser went through the Watcher's "Inter-dimensional Portal" Quasar went after him looking for his counter-parts that had Diverged in different Universes,

Quasar was flying from Universe to Universe through Portals set up by Watchers from different Universes literally as if they were just a set of rooms apart.

So you see depending on your method of Travel, you can fly from one Universe to another WITHOUT needing to experience the Cosmic Vortex, WITHOUT needing to touch "Beyond Space & Time" ...

When the Chaos Wave was collapsing the Multiverse, and beyond, it was doing it by breaking down the "BRANES" (Dimensional Walls between Universes)\

"Your Dimension is a Cancer, bringing devastation to BRANES all along the Sidereal String"

Meggan entered this place where the "Branes" (the Walls between Universes) are.

you can easily see how Universes transition from one to another, it looks nearly the same as the Universe itself:

This is the track Thanos or any other individual would take to Collapse the Multiverse, not the Cosmic Vortex.

The Cosmic Vortex is only the area "Beyond Space & Time" ... The "Branes" are what truly separate Universes, and it's as easy as breaking down a wall to get from one to the other. (Or you can use a Portal like most, like Quasar)

My contention is that Thanos absorbed the Multiverse.

Thanos's consciousness expanded to the Omniverse he said.

"I was everything bonded to Omni-Reality"

"My Awareness continued to expand beyond the material and the Abstract"

"Into Realms I never suspected even existed"

If this is ONE Universe I'm wondering, HOW is that possible?

HOW can Thanos perceive "Realms he NEVER knew existed?"

When he was the Actual Entire Universe before, Twice?

"Thanos has now USURPED Eternity's rightful position as the CENTER of ALL REALITY"

Thanos with the Cosmic Containment Unit become a Universe:

Tell me, do you SEE the term "Multiverse" here?

Epiphany:

"Can't you see he's blaiming himself for failing to kill you and save the Universe?"

Captain Marvel:

"think of all the times you saved the Universe"

"Truth is. the Universe was living on borrowed time"

"the truth is, the Universe did END with a whimper,

Eternity didn't want to keep going"

no2

That's strange cause guess what?

It IS the MULTIVERSE! 🙂

Backside Front Page:

"ENTROPY is the Son of,

Eternity, the Cosmic Being whose Essence Encompasses the ENTIRETY of the MULTIVERSE ...

Entropy has enlisted Captain Marvel in a Quest to Destroy His Father,

... Eternity and End All Creation"

Again, the Marvel Universe = The Multiverse

The 616 Universe or 616 Reality = ONE Universe.

(IMO) On Panel it is clear as day Thanos absorbed the Multiverse.

The Handbook bio does NOT dispute in any way what the Marvunaap Official bio clarifies.

The only difference is Marvunapp is specific in describing the events.

Thanos RECREATED the MULTIVERSE

This Bio site is Officially APPROVED by Marvel,

http://www.marvunapp.com/

Marvel even directs Official Handbook readers to it,

for extra information and even corrections can be found to Handbook Errors

(from the Official Marvel Universe Handbook 2006)

OBSERVE!

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix3/celestialorderthanos.htm#Heart

"Thanos foiled efforts to stop his plan by Eternity, the Living Tribunal etc ... but he also Obliterated the Multiverse in the process"

"Thanos did so, using the Heart's power to Re-Create the Multiverse bereft of the flaw that would have destroyed it"

So I was right from the beginning, it was the Multiverse Thanos Absorbed.

If the Marvel Writers didn't consider this Site, WHY would they direct ALL it's Readers to visit it for CORRECTIONS on Handbook ERRORS?

WHY would Marvel advertise this Web SITE on the FIRST PAGE of every single Official Marvel Handbook of 2006?

dontgetit

The Title is called Marvel: The End.

This interview took place Two Months before Marvel: the End was published.

The Story was almost NOT Canon

http://www.newsarama.com/Marvel/THEEND

"A few months ago when veteran writer/artist Jim Starlin let it be known he was creating a new Marvel mini-series entitled The End of the Marvel Universe, most fans assumed it'd be his chapter in Marvel's series of "The End" projects, which are based on the creative conceit that they're the "last" stories told about Marvel's biggest icons set in the far-flung future.

Turns out they were only half right. Marvel: The End (its official title), a six-issue monthly mini-series beginning this March with a double-sized first issue, is a part of "The End" series of books, but it does not take place in the far future. Starlin's story occurs during a time and place that will look real familiar to Marvel fans.

Starlin - who writes and pencils (with Al Milgrom on inks and Christie Scheele and Heroic Age on colors) - explained the series will feature "everyone in the Marvel Universe I can squeeze in", but focuses on the central characters Thanos and a newcomer named Akhenaten"

"Everyone dies at least once and a major change in the Marvel Universe happens at the end of the story," said Starlin, who hinted this change "involves Death" (with a capital 'D'😉.

What makes the project different from original expectations, however, is that it takes place in the contemporary Marvel Universe … well, sort of. Perhaps it would be better to say the identical twin sister of the contemporary 'continuity' Marvel Universe.

"By definition, a The End project stands outside of continuity," explained series' editor Tom Brevoort. "That said, Jim's story takes place in the here and now, rather than decades in the future as Hulk: The End did, so he's taking great pains to make it as up to date as he can."

"So much so Starlin is writing it as if it were an in-continuity story, even though it's really not. Or in other words, if you've always wanted to read about the current-day Marvel Universe coming to an end, this is your story. But you can still expect the Marvel to be in business come September when this series winds up.

Just to be sure no one walks away confused, Brevoort explained some more…"

"It takes place out of continuity, but in a Marvel Universe that is as identical to the 'real' one to start with as we could make it, given the lead time. In other words, if this was the only project we were putting out in March, if we were really canceling the entire Marvel line, there wouldn't be any question as to when this story takes place. It happens now."

And as to that "change" to the Marvel Universe Starlin hinted at, Brevoort issued his trademark "wait & see" when asked for more detail, saying only that the series' scope is huge and any character a Marvel Universe fan would want to see will probably be in there somewhere.

So while Brevoort is on record promising this won't be the end of Marvel, with that persistent Marvel Universe vs. Ultimate Universe debate and 'Ultimatization' scuttlebutt, there may be some readers keeping a trained eye on this series"

if you've always wanted to read about the current-day Marvel Universe coming to an end, this is your story. But you can still expect the Marvel to be in business come September when this series winds up.

The Editor even points out to STILL "Expect Marvel in Business come September"

Jim Starlin was rubbing out ALL of Marvel, twas why Death was not going to survive,

"for in the Absence of Life there can be No Death"

I guess the story changed in order to keep it Canon,

and Thanos ended up Healing Marvel,

by Re-Creating the Multiverse (Marvel basically)

the rest is NOTHING without it.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I agree that the term universe can and has been used in the place of multiverse. If they were more specific with their terms and explained how events played out with greater detail this wouldn't be a debate. I even see the logic in your interpretation of the events.

However:

You can not definitively say that the events of the End are multiversal in scope. There is no concrete evidence on panel to support that claim. There are, however, numerous references to the event being universal. Whether that's universal meaning 616/4321 only, or universal meaning Marvel's entirety, it's not specifically stated, but it is stated that it was the end of the universe, so the term "multiverse" or referring to the scope as being "multiversal" does not have any tangible on panel support. It's all interpretation.

Sorry M-Double. Valiant effort, and it makes a lot of sense with the support of the other instances of the term "universal" being used when referring to multiversal scale events. However, unlike in those instances, there's no clear depiction of the multiverse as a whole being effected in The End, and Warlock's survival in Atleza's realm seriously hurts the argument of it being a Marvel-wide event as you claim.

Originally posted by Mr Master
This is from a debate I had with a fellow poster, it concerns the End.

Originally posted by Mr Master
This is interesting and I think I got something.

[B]"Thanos destroyed all that existed" "Restored Reality"

This right here can be alluding to it being a Multiverse.

(exerpt from the 2006 Handbook Bio LT)

Then we get, "the recreated Universe lacked the terminal flaw"[/B]

Since you know, they call it a universe, and yet they have the idea that they can still put the term universe on everything else.

Seriously, all you have done was show that it was a universe.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Since every Universe was re-created it makes sense that the most important Universe was recreated also withOUT the "Flaw" that would have spread and ended the Multiverse, or it can directly mean "the Universe" as in the Marvel Multiverse (I have my reasons in the NEXT Post)

Hence:

[B]"For in the absence of Life there can be no Death"

He was definitely talking about the Multiverse here, because Death profits from one Universe dying, so it couldn't be that: (perhaps it's not the same Death OUTSIDE the Multiverse, things are different OUTSIDE the Multiverse, I have scans from the New Universe, Classic Ultraverse, Rune, Dr Who

"The Eons-Old Stalemate between Eternity and ME has ENDED.

By MY MACHINATIONS, the UNIVERSE shall be MINE"[/B]

Yes, because I'm sure that a What-If affects something that happened about two years or so ago...

Also... wasn't Korvac still alive? For in the abstence of life, there can be no death, but yet, there can still be death, can't there?

Originally posted by Mr Master
Look at Abraxas' bio in the 2006 Handbook:

Reed Nullified [B]"The Universe" itself, "The Universe" restored itself to it's previous normality, with Abraxas no where to be found"

Now you KNOW Reed Re-Created the Multiverse, NO mention of it, no mention of the word "Multiverse" at all. And the whole freaking story dealt with the Multiverse collapsing, no mention of the other Universes that were damaged, nothing.

"The Universe" ... can mean, The Multiverse. [/B]

They referenced the multiverse probably more than they mentioned universe in Abraxas. They also said that they need to restart everything in the Abraxas arc.

How many times they mentioned it in the HOTU arc? 0.
Interesting...

Actually, they did mention the Cosmic Vortex, and Atleza's realm, which would mean that they did know about the multiverse, but...

Since Warlock survived, that would mean that Thanos did NOT absorb everything like you say.
Which would make all speculations null.

He absorbed all time and space, and as we know, time and space is untouched in the Cosmic Vortex.

Plus, not to mention I'm also questionable of the UN feat in the Abraxas arc, but meh... I'll go along with it.

Originally posted by Mr Master
The entrance to the Cosmic Vortes

The Cosmic Vortex

Although it appears that way visually in the Cosmic Vortex, it is not so when traveling from one Universe to another.

Warlock was given that special opportunity to enter the Cosmic Vortex through a special Portal made by Eternity/Infinity.

But ALL Universes are as close the hairs on our heads.

When the Living Laser went through the Watcher's "Inter-dimensional Portal" Quasar went after him looking for his counter-parts that had Diverged in different Universes,

Quasar was flying from Universe to Universe through Portals set up by Watchers from different Universes literally as if they were just a set of rooms apart.

So you see depending on your method of Travel, you can fly from one Universe to another WITHOUT needing to experience the Cosmic Vortex, WITHOUT needing to touch "Beyond Space & Time" ...

When the Chaos Wave was collapsing the Multiverse, and beyond, it was doing it by breaking down the "BRANES" (Dimensional Walls between Universes)\

"Your Dimension is a Cancer, bringing devastation to BRANES all along the Sidereal String"

Meggan entered this place where the "Branes" (the Walls between Universes) are.

you can easily see how Universes transition from one to another, it looks nearly the same as the Universe itself:

This is the track Thanos or any other individual would take to Collapse the Multiverse, not the Cosmic Vortex.

The Cosmic Vortex is only the area "Beyond Space & Time" ... The "Branes" are what truly separate Universes, and it's as easy as breaking down a wall to get from one to the other. (Or you can use a Portal like most, like Quasar)

That's a portal to the universes... that's the same as basically teleporting to other universes...
It in no way should effect the other universes, and how they work.

And when exactly did Thanos break down the "Brane's"?
Also, she was affecting the multiverse... Thanos was not.
Like I said before, it was virtually impossible for Thanos to do this based on his discriptions, and of the Infinity Abyss afair, and the HOTU arc... not of the HOM...

Thanos stood there, and just absorbed everything... 😐
He didn't go on a kooky adventure.

The discriptions of the stories don't match.
I'm referencing from the HOTU/I A arc... you're taking stuff from the the HoM and hoping that it blots out what happened in The End.

Hell, even based off this, Thanos STILL should have crushed Warlock...

Originally posted by Mr Master
My contention is that Thanos absorbed the Multiverse.

Thanos's consciousness expanded to the Omniverse he said.

[B]"I was everything bonded to Omni-Reality"

"My Awareness continued to expand beyond the material and the Abstract"

"Into Realms I never suspected even existed"

If this is ONE Universe I'm wondering, HOW is that possible?

HOW can Thanos perceive "Realms he NEVER knew existed?"

When he was the Actual Entire Universe before, Twice?

"Thanos has now USURPED Eternity's rightful position as the CENTER of ALL REALITY"

Thanos with the Cosmic Containment Unit become a Universe:
[/B]

Originally posted by Mr Master
That's a sound speculation but specualtion nontheless.

But in all seriousness...
I like how you use omni-reality...
Hell, let's go off of omni-reality, OK.

Still doesn't affect what he said he absorbed.
He can be one with God, and yet, at the end of the day, he still absorbed a universe...
Also, everything Thanos has mentioned, is only universal in scope.
I especially like this one:
"I was an asteroid drifting in the void shortly after the big bang."

These realms could possibly include, Agamotto, Mephisto, etc. I don't remember him knowing anything about realms when he was the universe.

Hell, when he was the universe, he got his Cosmic Cube smashed, and his IG stolen (still doesn't matter if he let it or not).
Eternity has been surprised many a time, and yet, he is a universe...

Thanos wasn't a universe in the HOTU arc, he was, basically all knowing.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Tell me, do you SEE the term "Multiverse" here?

Epiphany:

"Can't you see he's blaiming himself for failing to kill you and save [B]the Universe?"

Captain Marvel:

"think of all the times you saved the Universe"

"Truth is. the Universe was living on borrowed time"

"the truth is, the Universe did END with a whimper,

Eternity didn't want to keep going"

no2

That's strange cause guess what?

It IS the MULTIVERSE! 🙂

Backside Front Page:

"ENTROPY is the Son of,

Eternity, the Cosmic Being whose Essence Encompasses the ENTIRETY of the MULTIVERSE ...

Entropy has enlisted Captain Marvel in a Quest to Destroy His Father,

... Eternity and End All Creation"

Again, the Marvel Universe = The Multiverse

The 616 Universe or 616 Reality = ONE Universe. [/B]

Also, since you are so into using Marvunapp...
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/entropym.htm

Says universe there... says universe on-panel...
The only place it says "multiverse" is at the front of the book... which, isn't exactly the most solid proof.

Ya...

Anyway, Warlock survived. Ruling out the absorbing evrything theory.
If Thanos indeed did absorb "teh multiverze!", he would have also had this little doozy in him...

Which, to my knowledge... he didn't.

Originally posted by bigbran
OK then... allow me to continue in this thread instead then...

Wasn't meant for this thread, you should of kept it in the other.

I only reposted certain claims I made about the end instead of having to write my same opinion again.

You missed points I posted in the other thread, as it was addressed to you, unlike in this thread which was addressed to Leon.

Originally posted by bigbran
All that existed in the universe maybe?
Food for thought.
Since you know, they call it a universe, and yet they have the idea that they can still put the term universe on everything else.
Seriously, all you have done was show that it was a universe.

Seriously, I disagree.

Originally posted by bigbran
What year was that What-If made? '82?
Yes, because I'm sure that a What-If affects something that happened about two years or so ago.. .

If it hadn't been retconned, yes it does.

Originally posted by bigbran
Also... wasn't Korvac still alive? For in the abstence of life, there can be no death, but yet, there can still be death, can't there?

Nope.

Korvac Died.

Ended up in Death's Realm:

Originally posted by bigbran
You know what the difference between the Abraxas arc, and The End is?

They referenced the multiverse probably more than they mentioned universe in Abraxas. They also said that they need to restart everything in the Abraxas arc.

The Cosmic Vortex.

Originally posted by bigbran
Actually, they did mention the Cosmic Vortex, and Atleza's realm, which would mean that they did know about the multiverse, but...

Since Warlock survived, that would mean that Thanos did NOT absorb everything like you say.

My contention is that Thanos could not Absorb anything Outside the influence of Space and Time.

Space and Time make up the Multiverse.

Thanos absorbed ALL Reality = Space & Time = the Multiverse.

Originally posted by bigbran
Which would make all speculations null.

Guess not.

Originally posted by bigbran
He absorbed all time and space, and as we know, time and space is untouched in the Cosmic Vortex.

Right.

Doesn't take away from Thanos absorbing the Multiverse.

Originally posted by bigbran
Like I said before in the thread where you answered... it appears that they ret-conned things, or that they forget it in every non-Warlock story, but meh.

dontgetit

Originally posted by bigbran
That's a portal to the universes... that's the same as basically teleporting to other universes...
It in no way should effect the other universes, and how they work.

Interesting,

I wonder how the Living Laser was making Counter-Parts of himself in every Universe he entered through the Portal, disrupting every Reality he entered?

Originally posted by bigbran
And when exactly did Thanos break down the "Brane's"?
Also, she was affecting the multiverse... Thanos was not.

imo Thanos absorbed the Multiverse.

In order to do that he would have to absorb in one fluid motion, through Brains.

That's how Universes are connected.

Originally posted by bigbran
Like I said before, it was virtually impossible for Thanos to do this based on his discriptions,

I disagree.

Originally posted by bigbran
Thanos stood there, and just absorbed everything...
He didn't go on a kooky adventure.

The discriptions of the stories don't match.
I'm referencing from the HOTU/I A arc... you're taking stuff from the the HoM and hoping that it blots out what happened in The End.

Wrong.

That's how you debate Comics.

By taking the actual Source of the relevant story, and discussing it coupled with the addition of outside Souces to further strengthen an argument.

Originally posted by bigbran
Hell, even based off this, Thanos STILL should have crushed Warlock...

Negative.

Again, Warlock was beyond Space and time, you don't need to touch the area "beyond Space & Time" in order to absorb ALL the Space and Time of the Multiverse.

Originally posted by bigbran
But in all seriousness...
I like how you use omni-reality...
Hell, let's go off of omni-reality, OK.

Right, so basically nothing is proof?

What's the point of this debate then?

Originally posted by bigbran
Still doesn't affect what he said he absorbed.

A Multiverse?

I agree.

Originally posted by bigbran
These realms could possibly include, Agamotto, Mephisto, etc. I don't remember him knowing anything about realms when he was the universe.

Vishanti exist outside the 616 Universe, and they could care less about 616 Eternity:

Originally posted by bigbran
Hell, when he was the universe, he got his Cosmic Cube smashed, and his IG stolen (still doesn't matter if he let it or not).
Eternity has been surprised many a time, and yet, he is a universe...

And?

Originally posted by bigbran
Thanos wasn't a universe in the HOTU arc, he was, basically all knowing.

According to Thanos,

"I was everything bonded to Omni-Reality"

You say it's "all knowing"

As you wish.

Originally posted by bigbran
Anyway, Warlock survived. Ruling out the absorbing evrything theory.
If Thanos indeed did absorb "teh multiverze!", he would have also had this little doozy in him...
Which, to my knowledge... he didn't.

Again,

Thanos absorbed all the Space and Time in the Multiverse.

Everything Outside of Space and Time survived.

Atleza's Realm (where Warlock was at) is OUTSIDE of Space and Time.

Simple as that. swank

For the love of all that is holy.

Someone just...I dunno. Email Marvel. Get Starlin's phone number. Hold a bunch pf oeple hostage and make your demands that Marvel answer whether Thanos absorbed a universe or a multiverse....

Oi vay.

Quasar Issue#37 Page 14 discussed?
Can someone post a scan of it?

QUASAR-Were looking for Eternity,my friend here thinks he may found here.

ANTHRO - Yes He Can...,in a sense.

ANTHRO--My people and i are living fractals,able to shape ourselves in an infinite manner, we serve as the manifestation-bodies for beings who have no physical forms.

QUASAR- So i gathered but why?

ANTHRO-We have a symbiotic relationship with the abstact beings.An exchange of energies that you physicals would not comprehend.

QUASAR- what about Galactus and some of these guys---they do have bodies of their own.

ANTHRO- Certain powerfull physical entities also enlist our services so they may be able to put in an appearence somwhere without actually attending.

ANTHRO-WE GIVE OUR NEWBORNS THE FINiTE BEINGS TO PRACTICE ON BEFORE THEY ARE ALLOWED TO MANIFEST ABSRACT BEINGS.

ANTHO-THE SKILL AND EXPERIENCE OF THE PARTICULAR MANIFESTER DETERMINES HOW WELL THE ENTITY IS REPRESENTED

The page ends
i read the whole thread did i miss this ?