Keith Ellison, D-Minn. to swear on Koran...

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
When did I say it's a law, I said it's a tradtion and it shouldn't be changed just to adhere to someone's beliefs. The book that members of the legistrative body make an oath on bearly has any bearings in there policy. It becomes a religuos issue when we start bringing other "sacred" text in. We don't live in a theocracy, so, it shouldn't matter or be a big deal the book he swears on.

Exactly - this isn't a theocracy, so it shouldn't matter or be a big deal what book it is he swears on.

So why is it a big deal that he decided to not use the bible?

thats what i dont get. what, its shouldnt be a big deal but damn him for swearing on the book of his faith?

Originally posted by Lana

So why is it a big deal that he decided to not use the bible?

It isn't about him using the bible, my point in generally is why should american traditions in general be changed to accomodate to other cultures immigrating here. Even if it wasn't a religous text, and something else the point is traditions shouldn't be changed just to accomodate to foreigners and there beliefs.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
foreigners and there beliefs.

he's an american. oh you mean everyone should adhere to 'white america'?

Originally posted by PVS
he's an american. oh you mean everyone should adhere to 'white america'?

I don't segregate america into groups like you or people do today. Americans, are americans. I don't care if he's an american, Whatever traditions he chooses to follow are his business and shouldn't be imposed on tradition in the united states. Just to accomodate to him.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
I don't segregate america into groups like you or people do today. Americans, are americans. I don't care if he's an american, Whatever traditions he chooses to follow are his business and shouldn't be imposed on tradition in the united states. Just to accomodate to him.

the united states is a culmination of many cultures. if you only adhere to the christian culture than im sorry to say that is indeed your stance, and you completely miss the whole point of 'land of the free'

Originally posted by PVS
the united states is a culmination of many cultures. if you only adhere to the christian culture than im sorry to say that is indeed your stance, and you completely miss the whole point of 'land of the free'

No, one's adhereing to any religion. The only reason why the bible is here is because it was a tradtion of the founding fathers who weren't even christian but, Free-Masons (The History Channel had a special on freemasonry and the founding fathers).

I missed the point of land of the free, right. Freedom is a privledge, and to be honest not something that should be takin for granted. Everyone has the right to practice whatever culture and religion they want But, why is it so taboo for a majority of americans to do the same within there own country and government they established? Again, this isn't a religous debate, He can practice whatever relgion he wants, But a tradition should not be changed for one groups beliefs?

Traditions die out and are changed all the time. Why should this one be any different?

Freedom is the ability to do what you like within the confines of the law. He's perfectly justified in his actions.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
No, one's adhereing to any religion. The only reason why the bible is here is because it was a tradtion of the founding fathers who weren't even christian but, Free-Masons (The History Channel had a special on freemasonry and the founding fathers).

they also traditionally owned slaves. whats your point?

Originally posted by PVS
they also traditionally owned slaves. whats your point?

Originally posted by Mr. Sandman
Traditions die out and are changed all the time. Why should this one be any different?

Originally posted by Mr. Sandman

Freedom is the ability to do what you like within the confines of the law. He's perfectly justified in his actions.

I never said he wasn't justified, I simply feel foreign traditions should not be forced over american ones in america.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
What's your point, what does owning slaves have to do with this? Alot, of people owned slaves and still do.

Not in America, where the American tradition of owning slaves has changed.

You're a ****in' genius.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
What's your point, what does owning slaves have to do with this? Alot, of people owned slaves and still do.

see my thread concerning...unorthodox...debating tactics. first post concerns that one. the point i make is that

1-tradition of the majority does not equate to the tradition of the land

and

2-tradition does not equal right, as slavery was a tradition. many other bad traditions broken in the u.s.

whatever, you're arguement is factually baseless. i dont even know why im dancing with you 😬

Originally posted by Mr. Sandman
Not in America, where the American tradition of owning slaves has changed.

You're a ****in' genius.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
I was talking about cultures/ traditions being forced on american culture/tradtions just to be either politiclly corrrect or please a group of people.

thats our exact point. only difference is you cant see it through your blinders.

he should be forced to swear on the text of another religion because you believe in a different invisible man? who the **** are you?

Originally posted by PVS
see my thread concerning...unorthodox...debating tactics. first post concerns that one. the point i make is that

1-tradition of the majority does not equate to the tradition of the land

But,it does equate to the people who esatablished the government, and nation.

Originally posted by PVS

2-tradition does not equal right, as slavery was a tradition. many other bad traditions broken in the u.s.

Did I see it equals a right?

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
And what the **** does that have to do with my point, I wasn't talking about traditions being abolished. I was talking about cultures/ traditions being forced on american culture/tradtions just to be either politiclly corrrect or please a group of people.

First of all, no other culture is forcing anything onto American traditions, he's still taking the oath, just on a book he considers more meaningful than the Bible.

Second:

Originally posted by PVS
1-tradition of the majority does not equate to the tradition of the land

and

2-tradition does not equal right, as slavery was a tradition. many other bad traditions broken in the u.s.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
But,it does equate to the people who esatablished the government, and nation.

no it doesnt. read the ****ing constitution. first ammendment.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Did I [say] it equals a right?

i meant "right" as in good, pious, just, fitting, etc.

Originally posted by PVS
thats our exact point. only difference is you cant see it through your blinders.

he should be forced to swear on the text of another religion because you believe in a different invisible man? who the **** are you?

That's not what I'm talking about, I don't give a rats ass who he believe's in. I'm saying a tradition should not be changed because the guy wants to pious and people want to be politically correct. You on the other hand keep talking about land of the free, religion, and slavery now. I dunnoo where your head is, Try to to hold it steady for one second.

Originally posted by PVS
no it doesnt. read the ****ing constitution. first ammendment.

Do you know what seperation of church and state is and that I'm not talking about the mans ****ing religous beliefs.

omg, can someone second that my words are too complex and confusing?

please, i swear (on the american bible) that i will take it back if thats the case.