Originally posted by Soma Bringer
Well that's more a matter of stylistic preference rather than an objective measure of its merit. The fact of the matter is that MGS is, by any standard, a remarkably deep and complex tale that is among the most differentiated stories you can find, anywhere. The differentiating factor alone makes it far more worthy of being in considerating for the greatest video game storyline of all time simply because it sets it so far apart from the other storylines out there. There really aren't many writers at all, whether they're working on videogames, movies, tv shows, books etc. that can even come close to Hideo Kojima in telling such an imaginative, ambitious storyline.
WUT?! Can you even susbstuntiate that with a single example of any subplot in MGS? You're having a laugh. And cookie cutter baddies giving cookie cutter monologues don't count.
Maybe that's the creators real intent but he doesn't place that awareness into the characters themselves. Snake and co don't break the 4th wall or cut off the villains monologue mid sentence with a bullet (which would be somewhat comedic).
Although (now thinking about it) MGS 3 was quite different from the other MGS games. The Snake v Boss dynamic was treated with more care than any of the other feuds in the series.
Allankles, have you even played these games out of curiosity? Even among its detracters its acknowledged as an extremely differentiated product with an almost incomprehensible plot that sees the word "convoluted" being thrown around almost constantly.
The sheer number of themes and the detail with which it explores these themes is largely unprecedented in any medium of storytelling, let alone when isolating the discussion to video games (Xenogears, Xenosaga, and the Chrono series being the only real exceptions). Movies are generally possessive of nowhere near the scope or detail of a grand story like Metal Gear Solid's, books in general place too high a value on the artistry behind writing, and exploring a general message rather than telling such a masterfully deep, complex tale. TV shows have a lot of potential due to their scope, but even the likes of Lost and Twin Peaks are of nowhere near the detail of something as grand as Metal Gear Solid.
You have the heavily explored theme of the manipulation of soldiers by politicians, and the concept behind "Outer Heaven", a military nation without politics where soldiers were respected and would always have a place in the world.
It explores a large number of themes relating to pacifism, includng the futility of war, the absurdity of nuclear deterrence, the dangers of nuclear weapons in general, the psychological effects of warfare on children and adults, the concept that enemies are only enemies in relative terms, and motivations behind the different lifestyles individuals choose.
It deals with genetics and the moral implications of genetic engineering, how identity can be affected by the philosophies of one's society and the effects of censorship on society, how the time and place one lives in affects their identity and how politics change along with the times, as well as the 'sense' that people die, things move on and times change and that life shouldn't be lived fighting.
That's not to mention the many philosophical and cyberpunk themes that it also happens to explore in great detail, including that of meme theory, social engineering, sociology, artificial intelligence, information control, conspiracy theories, political and military maneuvering, evolution, existentialism, censorship, the manipulation of free will, and the nature of reality.
And the "cookie cutter baddies" and their "cookie cutter monologues" that you cite are often the very mouthpieces with which Hideo Kojima explores these deep themes.
As far as how complex it is, it's not really something that can be so easily explained in a matter of words given the scope and detail of Metal Gear Solid's storyline, and it's largely based around the timing that crucial pieces of information are revealed to the player and the exact manner in which it is told.
Originally posted by AllanklesThe characters taking themselves so seriously is by itself comedic.
Maybe that's the creators real intent but he doesn't place that awareness into the characters themselves. Snake and co don't break the 4th wall or cut off the villains monologue mid sentence with a bullet (which would be somewhat comedic).Although (now thinking about it) MGS 3 was quite different from the other MGS games. The Snake v Boss dynamic was treated with more care than any of the other feuds in the series.
The Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker, Majora's Mask, Ocarina of Time. <--All freaking genius plots.
The entire Metroid saga.
Smash bros, for tying together so many different and convoluted plots at all. It doesn't even need to make sense anymore at that point.
Golden Sun
StarCraft
PSYCHONAUTS
In no particular order.