Tony is eventually suffering from long term effects of his wealthy upbringing and malnourishment in terms of parental care, his outlook on life has been completely altered by the war torn circumstances that spawned Iron-man, perhaps as some form of psychological conditioning, Tony is changing his personality as a subconscious atonement for past mistakes?
Or he had a sex change.
Originally posted by inamilistThe best example I can give is JJJ from Marvel Knights Spiderman. I don't remember the issue, but he generally just goes off on heroes. His point is that they are masked and unaccountable individuals that are so powerful that people like you or I are insignificant before them.
Tough. Hawkeye and the Punisher dont have superpowers, if your insignificant thats your problem.
Originally posted by inamilist"Having heroes around made people less able to defend for themselves, incapable of standing up for themselves". I agree 200%.
Tough **** do some training and become a superhero then.
Originally posted by inamilist
Its really the line "they do obviously need to be protected" that really sticks in my proverbial craw. Who is this obvious to? The person with the power? doesn't it seem a little fascist for a person with power to decide, to themselves, how society would benefit the most from it?
So explain to me whos going to protect civilians from Dr Doom, Kang, Red Skull and other psychos when there are no super heroes around?
Originally posted by inamilist
And here is why I made the connection to communism. In both cases, with heroes or communists, you have people with strong ideological beliefs and a general sense of altruism toward those who are suffering. However, in both cases, the cost of helping those in need is incurred by those who are not. In communism, the recourses generated by the hard labor of one person are distributed equally, even to those who are unwilling to do their own share. With heroes, the cost is different. It isn't money or recourses, it's freedom. Every time a vigilante beats up someone who THEY think is a bad person, we loose that much freedom. Why? Because we are saying that, it is ok for that super powered individual to assault us when he doesn't agree with our actions, so generally we act with his/her permission. Sure, I obviously need the help, but in this instance, I need help and protection from those who think they are helping me.
Well super heroes are not perfect, but you know and I know they have saved the lives of civilians hundreds of times. If you want some say in who gets to protect you become a superhero.
So let me get this straight right...the police arent strong enough to save you, the government isnt strong enough to save you...hell often super heroes have to save SHIELDS ass on a regular basis. Super heroes do the jobs that other people cant do, you dont contribute to it....and the you wanna complain? I didnt see you around last time Thanos tried to destroy the universe.
Originally posted by marvelprince
You just don't get it. Whether or not Paris Hilton is important or just a fart in a mitten is unimportant. Fact is, love her or hate her, everyone knows about her. Same with Myspace, same with Youtube. Same goes for the obsession with Starbucks, same thing for celebrity worship. Are any of these things necessarily good things? No, of course not but point is you would be very hard pressed to an American (or anyone else in the world) who doesn't get these things. The fact that Cap doesn't get this doesn't make him any less of a hero, it just shows that he's out of step.
Thats not entirely the point, you dont get it completely either. The examples that Sally gave are important, she gave examples of Paris Hilton, and scheming your way to the top. In other words America isnt about core moral values anymore its about scheming your way to the top, America is about back stabbing and trivial things.
You can bet your bottom dollar that Cap knows about Politics, how to use a televison and a computer. He doesnt know about Paris Hilton because its irelevant. Sure it would help to know about mypsace but my point is Cap knows about the most important things. The things that Cap has knowledge of are the core values and issues that are important no matter what age your in.
I do agree it would help to be more in touch though.
Originally posted by marvelprince
Part of what I liked about Captain America is because of his being out of touch, it made him seem pure in a way. He was untainted by the cynism of our time. However thats aldo made him naive. I would follow Cap into battle because he's a born leader, but outside of the battefield I am not going be behind someone who doesn't get me. Who doesn't understand that unbriddled enthusiam won't effect change and that sometimes you have to break a few eggs to make an omelette. Cap is a hero, he fights for ideals. Really its all he knows. He is not a policitian. If it came down to say an election not only would I not pick somone who nows next to nothing about how things work in this decade but I would pick someone who understands that not everything is black and white. Give me someone who understands that some things the lines have to be blurred for the common good, not someone who'll smile and hope a hearty handshake will make everything better. Give me a Nick Fury/Batman/Tony Stark in charge any day.
I think your right there.
Originally posted by Rewmac
Wolverine posing as Tony Stark?
Nah , if so then Civil War would have been one in under a minute.
Originally posted by Rewmac
Too much whisky?
Nope
Originally posted by willRules
Skrull impostor?
Double Nope
Originally posted by willRules
Tony had a sex change?
Triple nope
Originally posted by Evil_Ash
An evil Tony Stark from Earth-66884339956033452443344554244553424523424434252?
Gettin warm....
Stark has in-fact been replaced by....
DUN DUN DUN....
TEH IRON MANIAC
Originally posted by willRules
That's fair enough if that's your opinion, I was just highlighting the flaws in Stark's "policies" just like you have done with Cap's ✅ I am just agreeing to disagree ✅
Ah, gotcha. Agree to disagree
Originally posted by Alfheim
Thats not entirely the point, you dont get it completely either. The examples that Sally gave are important, she gave examples of Paris Hilton, and scheming your way to the top. In other words America isnt about core moral values anymore its about scheming your way to the top, America is about back stabbing and trivial things.
My thing is that Sally isn't saying that those things are important to America. That knowing about Paris Hilton or how to worship celebrities is what new America is based on. She just named things that nearly every American knows. She's not saying that they are important values or that they are even relevant, just that they are common to everyone.
Originally posted by Alfheim
You can bet your bottom dollar that Cap knows about Politics, how to use a televison and a computer. He doesnt know about Paris Hilton because its irelevant. Sure it would help to know about mypsace but my point is Cap knows about the most important things. The things that Cap has knowledge of are the core values and issues that are important no matter what age your in.
Whether or not its relevant or not isn't the point. I sure don't give a damn about Paris Hilton, but i know who she is. Up until yesterday I didn't have a Myspace page (still can't get my music to play on it) but I sure knew what it was before I had set one up. Important or no these are things people know about, the fact that someone doesn't doesn't testify to how much or how little of an American someone is. All it does is illustrate that they are out of touch and in a situation where you are going to dictate whats best for the people thats not a good thing to be.
Originally posted by Alfheim
I do agree it would help to be more in touch though.Glad we agree on this
[QUOTE=8492327]Originally posted by Alfheim
[B]I think your right there.
And on this too.
Ive changed some of your sentences around Trickster, just to try and address stuff more concisely, hopefully its not a problem..
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Inamilist, to quote Danny Rand posing as DD when he fought Deadpool in C&D: "How does that make them feel safe? Galactus could still step on their house tomorrow!"http://groups.msn.com/ultimatespidermanonlinecomic/issue085.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=42472
Guys like Classic Juggs, Annihilus, Apocalypse, Magneto, who's gonna stop them if not a superhero? Because the govt. sure as hell can't stop these guys.
Well, the question I would ask is, "whose responsibility is it to protect the people from harm"
Generally speaking, I'd say it is ONLY the government that is allowed to use force against any threat to public safety, because it is only the government that is bound by constitutional limitations. This will probably be expanded as I answer a lot of your points, but if we just allowed people who are more "powerful" than others to do what they want, we essentially are giving up our autonomy as individuals. Freedom has a cost.
Notice though, that nowhere in my argument am I saying that superpowered people should not fight against superpowered threats.
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
These guys recoqnize no authority higher than themselves.
I would say that about all villains AND heroes. Heroes are good NOT because they are protectors of the people and accountable to the rule of law, but simply because the viewpoint of the world that they try to enforce coincides with society's in general. For instance, Spider-Man and daredevil are only heroes because they beat up people who we would want beat up, and magneto is bad because he would beat up those who we don't want to see get beat up. Essentially, the ends justify the means, which is an argument I don't support. Evil is evil.
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
When you get into the grey area, that's when your arguement makes sense. Case in point: The Punisher. He's pretty much the poster boy for your side of the arguement. But is he a bad guy? Hard to say. But he does fight crime, even if he ignores the law.
See, I think you are missing what I am saying. Its not the ends that I care about. Yes, I want people on the street to be safe. However, I don't like the idea of self righteous, anonymous people running around enforcing their own moral code through the use of unsanctioned and unaccountable force against private citizens without due process or respect for constitutional rights. Yes, when comparing the end result of Spiderman and Punisher, pun is certainly less moral, however the means, the unaccountable use of force, is exactly the same.
Again, notice how I say nothing about wanting apocalypse to take over the world. that is a straw man argument
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
And some of the people he kills would not be brought to justice ever.
A significant cost of living in a free society is the idea of due process.
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Example of what I'm saying. Xmen: The Animated Series. First season Episode: 'Comes the Apocalypse' (I realize I'm using Apoc for this again, but he fits the bill and this episode illustrates my point.) Apocalypse and his Four Horsemen attack a world peace conference. The Military gets decimated and Apoc blows up half of paris. Now, if there were superheroes, someone would have tried to stop him. It's obvious someone like that is evil by a general consensus.
Why couldn't publicly accountable super-heroes stop apoc?
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
But what about a mob attacking mutant who has to drain life energy to stay alive? Or the military attacking the Hulk for his rampages? In the first case, it's not under the individual's control. In the 2nd, if they left him alone, there would probably be alot less devastation. You can't trust the govt. to always do the right thing, that's why Superheroes are necessary in comics. To represent an unofficial check on tyrannical power. if that means they have to be above the law, then so be for some of them.
No, the government cannot be trusted to do the right thing. I would never advocate trusting the state. However, as citizens of a free country, we have moderate ability to hold the state accountable in its application of force, whereas private citizens and heroes have no such constraints.
And the statement of being above the law, if spiderman or wolverine are above the law, so is magneto and onslaught. The only qualification for them being above the law is their willingness to use force, apparently, and since they are above the law, we have no legal recourse to say that force against some people is good and force against others is bad.
Originally posted by Alfheim
Tough. Hawkeye and the Punisher dont have superpowers, if your insignificant thats your problem.
I dont understand your point.... Tough? whats tough? tough people are violating the rights of individuals... well, ok.. tough?
I also don't get the reference to Punisher and Hawkeye... My point was that superheroes are unaccountable to the public and hold power over them. I don't think you mentioning two names of people who would still kick the shit out of any normal person really refutes my point.
And to the last point. Yes, being insignificant is my problem. It would be a problem for every non powered person in the MU, which is well more than 99% of the population of earth. However, that problem is one that the individual must overcome by themselves. Reliance on non accountable heroes to deal with what you consider impossible odds is a cop out. Take responsibility for your own actions and don't depend on someone else to make things right for you.
Notice, nowhere have I said that super powered individuals should not fight other superpowered individuals
Originally posted by Alfheim
TTough **** do some training and become a superhero then.
People in the MU don't all have access to that type of power. If it was easy for people to have powers they would. Even if you for some reason think you would have powers in that situation, putting you in something like the 99.9999999th percentile of the human population, that fails to give any reason to why superheroes should be allowed to act above the law. If anything, that could be seen as malicious power grabbing on the part of the superheroes themselves.
Also, the point that was quoted dealt with the fact that the dependence of humanity on super powered individuals has made society as a whole less able to deal with major catastrophes without their aide. Would you mind answering that point rather than making a smart ass remark to me, thanks 🙂
Originally posted by Alfheim
TSo explain to me whos going to protect civilians from Dr Doom, Kang, Red Skull and other psychos when there are no super heroes around?
I don't remember arguing for people like Doom or Kang to go unopposed by people with superpowers. Why not read what I am saying rather than assuming my position and making creative but misleading straw men?
Originally posted by Alfheim
TWell super heroes are not perfect, but you know and I know they have saved the lives of civilians hundreds of times. If you want some say in who gets to protect you become a superhero.
the constitution would disagree with that. The whole purpose of a free society is that we don't have anonymous and unaccountable people running around enforcing their own moralistic views. Having some say in who gets to protect you is in fact one of the most fundamental principals of democracy.
Originally posted by Alfheim
TSo let me get this straight right...the police arent strong enough to save you, the government isnt strong enough to save you...hell often super heroes have to save SHIELDS ass on a regular basis. Super heroes do the jobs that other people cant do, you dont contribute to it....and the you wanna complain?
what do you mean complain? If you think political and human rights are complaints, then I can see your point.
Again, thats a straw man to think that I wouldn't want heroes to do the heroy thing. However, I want to be able to get a full investigation into their actions when they mess up. I want to know who they are, what they can do, and what they are doing in my name, and I want to be able to take up any grievances I may have with them, just like the police.
I guess if your argument really is might makes right I can't argue with it, but I am taking a constitutional look at the issue.
Originally posted by Alfheim
I didnt see you around last time Thanos tried to destroy the universe.
wow, what a wonderful point. You do know that thanos is a fictional character?
Maaaaan.... you can't pull the "he's a fictional character" card. That's just not cool. We're in a COMIC BOOK DISCUSSION FORUM for crying out loud. Of course he's fictional... *sigh* That's just low man.
Just not cool.
And I wish I thought of it before you did.
Okay, maybe I don't. It's still pretty low.
Yeah... I wish I thought of it. Maybe wish I used it. But either way, not fair. Not cool.
Okay, maybe you had a really good point or something and all I caught was the last line because I didn't feel like sorting out a squabble between you and Tricksterpriest.
So...
Girls, girls, you're both pretty!
Now stop fighting.
And seriously... wow. Fictional character card was played. Ouch man. Ouch.
Originally posted by inamilistI dont understand your point.... Tough? whats tough? tough people are violating the rights of individuals... well, ok.. tough?
I also don't get the reference to Punisher and Hawkeye... My point was that superheroes are unaccountable to the public and hold power over them. I don't think you mentioning two names of people who would still kick the shit out of any normal person really refutes my point.
My point was, if you have a problem with superheroes not being accountable then become one yourself. Punisher and Hawkeye dont have powers so you should be able to become a superhero.
Originally posted by inamilist
Take responsibility for your own actions and don't depend on someone else to make things right for you.
Thats why I mentioned Punisher and Hawkeye they are human beings who dont rely on other superheroes to save them.
Originally posted by inamilist
Notice, nowhere have I said that super powered individuals should not fight other superpowered individuals
You're moaning about them being non-accountable.
Originally posted by inamilist
People in the MU don't all have access to that type of power.
Yeah they do Hawkeye just has a bow and arrow and training. Punisher uses training and guns. Shang Chi uses Kung Fu, are you telling me ordinary people dont have access to kung fu? There was a kid in an Xfactor annual who learnt how to practice magic in months, even in the real world you can get books on the occult online and in specialist bookshops. This is what was said about the Young Avenger Hawkeye.
http://www.marvel.com/universe/Hawkeye_(Kate_Bishop)
Kate was assaulted in Central Park. Vowing to never be a victim again, she enrolled trained herself in martial arts and weaponry.
Originally posted by inamilist
If it was easy for people to have powers they would.
Thats life. Nothing that is worthwile doing is easy if they cant be bothered to train then they get what they deserve then.
Originally posted by inamilist
Even if you for some reason think you would have powers in that situation, putting you in something like the 99.9999999th percentile of the human population, that fails to give any reason to why superheroes should be allowed to act above the law. If anything, that could be seen as malicious power grabbing on the part of the superheroes themselves.
If the law was strong enough to deal with crime and supervillans, then superheroes would not exist. The reason why superheroes exist is because ordinary people sit around doing nothing.
Originally posted by inamilist
Also, the point that was quoted dealt with the fact that the dependence of humanity on super powered individuals has made society as a whole less able to deal with major catastrophes without their aide. Would you mind answering that point rather than making a smart ass remark to me, thanks 🙂
Yeah like I said, tough ****. Do some training start up your own super hero team. Hell there were even mutants bars at one point in marvel 616. If you wanted to with enough hard work you could recruit superheroes or get yourself recruited. If ordinary people dont like what superheroes are doing then they should get involved.
Originally posted by inamilist
I don't remember arguing for people like Doom or Kang to go unopposed by people with superpowers. Why not read what I am saying rather than assuming my position and making creative but misleading straw men?
Fine.
Originally posted by inamilist
the constitution would disagree with that. The whole purpose of a free society is that we don't have anonymous and unaccountable people running around enforcing their own moralistic views. Having some say in who gets to protect you is in fact one of the most fundamental principals of democracy.
Yeah and even in a democracy politicians break or bend the laws because they can get away with it because they are more powerful than anybody else. Not so long ago the labour party in England was accused of rigging elections. Its good to have laws but those in power will always break them if they can get away with it.
Originally posted by inamilist
what do you mean complain? If you think political and human rights are complaints, then I can see your point.
Again, thats a straw man to think that I wouldn't want heroes to do the heroy thing. However, I want to be able to get a full investigation into their actions when they mess up. I want to know who they are, what they can do, and what they are doing in my name, and I want to be able to take up any grievances I may have with them, just like the police.
Well its like this....if I was in the MU 616 you would be bitching about how superheroes are not accountable, I on the other hand would train and try and become a superhero. If you cant beat em join em.
Originally posted by inamilist
I guess if your argument really is might makes right I can't argue with it, but I am taking a constitutional look at the issue.
Well look im just being realistic. If you lived in MU 616, becoming a superhero is not that impossible. Its hard but not impossible, whats the point in complaining about superheroes being above the law when you can become one yourself?
Originally posted by inamilist
wow, what a wonderful point. You do know that thanos is a fictional character?
Originally posted by Blind😐
Maaaaan.... you can't pull the "he's a fictional character" card. That's just not cool. We're in a COMIC BOOK DISCUSSION FORUM for crying out loud. Of course he's fictional... *sigh* That's just low man.
Originally posted by Alfheim
My point was, if you have a problem with superheroes not being accountable then become one yourself. Punisher and Hawkeye dont have powers so you should be able to become a superhero.
I don't have a problem with most of what you said, but this I take issue with. I'm sorry, but saying that you have a problem with vigilanties means you should just become on yourself is ridiculous. What sense does it make to become something that you don't like, or take issue with? Since I don't like supervillians should I just turn into a villian myself?
That is a pretty poor argument. To put it in perspective its like saying since you don't like the idea of being mugged, buy a gun despite it being legal
Originally posted by marvelprince
I don't have a problem with most of what you said, but this I take issue with. I'm sorry, but saying that you have a problem with vigilanties means you should just become on yourself is ridiculous.
Well whos calling the shots? Whos running the show? Superheroes....you cant beat em join em.
Originally posted by marvelprince
What sense does it make to become something that you don't like, or take issue with? Since I don't like supervillians should I just turn into a villian myself?
Er that logic doesnt work to me. The argument isnt really not liking superheroes, its superheroes not being accountable. Its not that you dont like them saving peoples lives, its just that you want some say in what they do. So I think thats a bad analogy, you wouldnt become a supervillain period.
Originally posted by marvelprince
That is a pretty poor argument. To put it in perspective its like saying since you don't like the idea of being mugged, buy a gun despite it being legal
Do what you gotta do. Your liviing in area high with crime and nobody is doign anything about it, do what you gotta do.
Originally posted by Alfheim
Well whos calling the shots? Whos running the show? Superheroes....you cant beat em join em.
So if a facist dictator takes over your country then your only choice is to sign up with him?
I also think that thats funny cause given your logic Captain America would have signed up with the registration act.
Originally posted by Alfheim
Er that logic doesnt work to me. The argument isnt really not liking superheroes, its superheroes not being accountable. Its not that you dont like them saving peoples lives, its just that you want some say in what they do. So I think thats a bad analogy, you wouldnt become a supervillain period.
People don't like that they aren't accoutable. We want to be able to have someone to hold responsible if they happen to fire a repulser blast into a school bus. By your logic if Timmy and Billy don't like that superheroes aren't accountable then Timmy should fight crime and make it Billy's problem?
Originally posted by Alfheim
Do what you gotta do. Your liviing in area high with crime and nobody is doign anything about it, do what you gotta do.
I've never liked the whole might is right argument. Sure can find a way to protect yourself, but don't try to delude yourself into thinking that what you are doing is the right thing.
Originally posted by marvelprince
So if a facist dictator takes over your country then your only choice is to sign up with him?
Ok I should not have said if you cant beat em join em, what im trying to say is you have to get involved. So you dont become a facist dictator but you fight against them.
Originally posted by marvelprince
I also think that thats funny cause given your logic Captain America would have signed up with the registration act.
Well this is my point. Did Cap sit on his a** complaining, no he did something.
Originally posted by marvelprince
People don't like that they aren't accoutable. We want to be able to have someone to hold responsible if they happen to fire a repulser blast into a school bus. By your logic if Timmy and Billy don't like that superheroes aren't accountable then Timmy should fight crime and make it Billy's problem?
Well ok maybe you dont have to become a "superhero", but you will have to get involved. If you want to know about what such and such a hero is doing, that would involve you get involved in his life. You might have to contribute money, organise stuff and sometimes maybe even fight sometimes.
Originally posted by marvelprince
I've never liked the whole might is right argument. Sure can find a way to protect yourself, but don't try to delude yourself into thinking that what you are doing is the right thing.
Well if nobodys gonna do it you got to do it yourself. If im a superhero and im risking my life on a daily basis and you want me to be accountable, what are you going to contribute? Are you gonna give me any money? Well you start up a neighbourhood watch team? Well you train so that if I get injured you can back me up. If you are contributing to my cause then you effectively become a "superhero."
At the end of the day the reason why there not accountable is because nobody else is doing what they are doing. If the public want to hold them to be accountable and know what they are doing they have to take part in what superheroes do directly or indirectly.
Originally posted by Alfheim
Ok I should not have said if you cant beat em join em, what im trying to say is you have to get involved. So you dont become a facist dictator but you fight against them.
Ok.
Originally posted by Alfheim
Well this is my point. Did Cap sit on his a** complaining, no he did something.
But he lost. Does that mean he joins up with the other side now?
Originally posted by Alfheim
Well ok maybe you dont have to become a "superhero", but you will have to get involved. If you want to know about what such and such a hero is doing, that would involve you get involved in his life. You might have to contribute money, organise stuff and sometimes maybe even fight sometimes.
Kinda the way registration gives you money and training?
Originally posted by Alfheim
Well if nobodys gonna do it you got to do it yourself. If im a superhero and im risking my life on a daily basis and you want me to be accountable, what are you going to contribute? Are you gonna give me any money? Well you start up a neighbourhood watch team? Well you train so that if I get injured you can back me up. If you are contributing to my cause then you effectively become a "superhero."
So what about the people who can't become heroes? The elderly, the handicapped, the sick? Is it just bully for them cause they can't defend them themselves? Or is it cause they're weak they have no say?
Originally posted by Alfheim
At the end of the day the reason why there not accountable is because nobody else is doing what they are doing. If the public want to hold them to be accountable and know what they are doing they have to take part in what superheroes do directly or indirectly.
Which is why the people called for a draft and demanded the heroes register. They did do something
Originally posted by marvelprince
Ok.But he lost. Does that mean he joins up with the other side now?
Kinda the way registration gives you money and training?
So what about the people who can't become heroes? The elderly, the handicapped, the sick? Is it just bully for them cause they can't defend them themselves? Or is it cause they're weak they have no say?
Which is why the people called for a draft and demanded the heroes register. They did do something
Well basically your right, cant really argue about any thing you said there.
Turns out according to the latest Wizard, that Cap surrenedered because he saw that he wasn't going to make the registration go away by throwing punches in the battlefield
Now he's going to be throwing punches in the court room! 😱
Get ready for...
CAPTAIN AMERICA: ATTORNEY AT LAW!
"You think this letter on my head stands for appeal!" 😆
Originally posted by marvelprince
I've never liked the whole might is right argument. Sure can find a way to protect yourself, but don't try to delude yourself into thinking that what you are doing is the right thing.
Most of what I would have wanted to say is summed up in this
I don't think people who are more powerful should be above the law, and I don't think I should be above the law if I had powers. I think the idea of people being above the law is immoral, whether it is Superman or me.
Originally posted by Grimm22
Turns out according to the latest Wizard, that Cap surrenedered because he saw that he wasn't going to make the registration go away by throwing punches in the battlefieldNow he's going to be throwing punches in the court room! 😱
Get ready for...
CAPTAIN AMERICA: ATTORNEY AT LAW!
"You think this letter on my head stands for appeal!" 😆
😆
Originally posted by Grimm22
Turns out according to the latest Wizard, that Cap surrenedered because he saw that he wasn't going to make the registration go away by throwing punches in the battlefieldNow he's going to be throwing punches in the court room! 😱
Get ready for...
CAPTAIN AMERICA: ATTORNEY AT LAW!
"You think this letter on my head stands for appeal!" 😆
😆
Originally posted by inamilist
Most of what I would have wanted to say is summed up in thisI don't think people who are more powerful should be above the law, and I don't think I should be above the law if I had powers. I think the idea of people being above the law is immoral, whether it is Superman or me.
Well if you misunderstood me I can understand why, but really and truly my point was get-up-off-your-ass-is-right. This post is in response to both marvelprince and inamalist because maybe I did not make my stance clear (mainly to inamalist).
Originally posted by inamilist
I think a bigger issue is that nobody asked to be protected by heroes in the first place....
Originally posted by inamilistIts really the line "they do obviously need to be protected" that really sticks in my proverbial craw. Who is this obvious to? The person with the power? doesn't it seem a little fascist for a person with power to decide, to themselves, how society would benefit the most from it?
This is the thing you say that you dont have a problem with superheroes protecting people, but when you say that "nobody asked to be protected" and imply its not obvious that they need to be protected it sounds very ungrateful.
My main point is this..... the reason why superheroes are unaccountable is not their fault, its the fault of the public because they are not doing the jobs that the superheroes are. The weak and the elderly have an excuse but most of the public do not especially since there are many superheroes without superpowers.
If the public had got behined Spiderman when he was fighting crime instead of criticsing him all the time maybe this would not have happened. If the public hadnt sat on their fat arses while The Avengers save the earth yet again, earth would have not been in this situation.
The superheroes are blameless for not being accountable because nobody is helping them.
I could add some further points but im too tired, but to summarise...I really do not like the way that Sally spoke to Cap. You can see she did not appreciate all the help that Cap has done for the public "bully for you". The thing that gets me about the press is that often it seems that they are not looking for the truth but they are looking to make a name for themselves or boost ratings. A perfect example is what happened to the model Kate Moss , the press decided to pick on her for taking drugs when many of the reporters having a go at her were taking drugs themselves.
To say that Sally was implying that Cap was out of touch was just part of what was going on. If you analysis further what Sally siad you can get into a glimpse of why earth got into a situation where people relied on superheroes. Sally mentioned that America was about Paris Hilton, sceheming your way to the top and that Americans dont respect teachers.
Now....superheroes are not perfect but the fact that they have decided to risk life and limb while nobody else is doing it show that they have in general better moral values than your average civilian. If America was not about scheming your way to the top and they respected teachers maybe they would have been more sympathetic to heroes and given them support instead of them moaning about them not being accountable.