Biblical salvation, by faith only?

James 2:17-26
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

1 Cor. 13:3
3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

1 Cor. 13:13
13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Revelation 22:14
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Philippians 2:12
12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Biblically, works are necessary, beliefs otherwise are in error. Martin Luther was a great man, but he was in error in promoting a "faith only" belief.

Partial information is usually a bad thing.

Luther was also quoted as saying (and this is a paraphrase, but I've seen the reference). "We enter the kingdom by faith alone. But if faith is truly alone, it is not faith."

Essentially what he was saying is that if you have true faith, the "good works" espoused by other practices would naturally follow along.

...

I don't agree with Luther, mainly because I don't agree with Christianity. But making claims based upon only part of the truth bothers me in any setting.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Partial information is usually a bad thing.

Luther was also quoted as saying (and this is a paraphrase, but I've seen the reference). "We enter the kingdom by faith alone. But if faith is truly alone, it is not faith."

Essentially what he was saying is that if you have true faith, the "good works" espoused by other practices would naturally follow along.

...

I don't agree with Luther, mainly because I don't agree with Christianity. But making claims based upon only part of the truth bothers me in any setting.

Martin Luther, The Smalcald Articles in Concordia: The Lutheran Confessions (Saint Louis: Concordia Publishing House, 2005), 289, Part two, Article 1.
Jesus Christ, our God and Lord, died for our sins and was raised again for our justification… herefore, it is clear and certain that this faith alone justifies us… Nothing of this article can be yielded or surrendered, even though heaven and earth and everything else falls.

What the Bible really teaches though, is that we must have faith first and the the fruits of the our faith will follow. If works do not follow then we do not truly have faith.

I could give to the poor, show up to church every Sunday, obey the golden rule, and follow the 10 Commandments, but if I die without having faith in Christ, I would go to hell.

Christianity is much more than just following rules or just going to church, it is a lifestyle, a relationship. And this needs to start with genuine repentance and faith in Christ Jesus, then others can tell by the fruits and actions of that person that they are a follower of Christ.

Unfortunatly, most just smash the Bible into others faces and tells them that they are going to hell, and never tell them that they are loved and they are not alone.

"On hearing this, Jesus said, 'It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. But go and learn what this means: I desire mercy, not sacrifice. For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.'" -Matthew 9:12-13

"If you do not stand firm in your faith, you will not stand at all." -Isaiah 7:9

So what if person does a great deeds such as Dalai lama, but has not faith in a traditional way which would corralate with Christianity?

Does that make him Hell destined?

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
So what if person does a great deeds such as Dalai lama, but has not faith in a traditional way which would corralate with Christianity?

Does that make him Hell destined?

Something like that is really not for us to determine, or decide. Wiki describes hell as 'a complete and final separation of God's love and mercy from sinners who have rejected his moral standards of goodness and have chosen to live a rebellious life of sin.'

But if I was god, I wouldn't condemn someone to a life of hell that didn't strongly deserve it. Dalai Lama wasn't exactly a rebel who chose a life of sin. He never considered god's word, so how could he reject it?

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
So what if person does a great deeds such as Dalai lama, but has not faith in a traditional way which would corralate with Christianity?

Does that make him Hell destined?

The entire premise behind Christianity is faulty and mostly wrong, so, the Dalai lama would be responsible for his own karma and not anyone else's.

Originally posted by ska57
I could give to the poor, show up to church every Sunday, obey the golden rule, and follow the 10 Commandments, but if I die without having faith in Christ, I would go to hell.

Christianity is much more than just following rules or just going to church, it is a lifestyle, a relationship. And this needs to start with genuine repentance and faith in Christ Jesus, then others can tell by the fruits and actions of that person that they are a follower of Christ.

Unfortunatly, most just smash the Bible into others faces and tells them that they are going to hell, and never tell them that they are loved and they are not alone.

This is essentially what I've been saying in many other threads - except much less wordy and long winded...He..He..well done!

Originally posted by Dusty
But if I was god, I wouldn't condemn someone to a life of hell that didn't strongly deserve it. Dalai Lama wasn't exactly a rebel who chose a life of sin. He never considered god's word, so how could he reject it?

But remember neither was the Rich Man in the Lazarus parable - and he ended up in hell. I guess it really all does come down to *faith* and the intentions of one's heart. If you think about it - this makes a lot of sense. What could any of us really do for God - that he couldn't do infinitely better?

It would be sooooo easy if it was just a matter of faith.

Salvation is a matter of understanding and acting. Faith can be purposeless sometimes since things can be modified and misinterpreted, for example, chirstianity is mostly a set of beliefs created by the romans in the councils, who know what part of christianism is really Jesus teachings. So being a follower of Christ does not necessarily mean to be a follower of christianism. Thats why we need to know whats going on, not just have faith.

strange thing about this jealous god(s) who condemn someone to a eternal afterlife in a bad place (like hell) just because they didnt worship this god(s), are this god(s) so insecure about its/theirs own powers it/they have to punish the ones who doubt their alleged existence to eternal damnation................omnipotent omnipresence my ass...................... talk about feeble god(s)

😂

Originally posted by Regret
You need to read more of Martin Luther's words. Martin Luther felt that adding works to faith was an insult to God. While Luther was a great man, but he was indeed a proponent of salvation by faith alone. He is credited as being the author of this line of Christian thought.

I never said otherwise. I simply used more of his words (which you've obviously read 😉 ) to validate his position.

Why bring the man down without trying to understand the entirety of his beliefs?

Originally posted by Nellinator
...we must have faith first and the the fruits of the our faith will follow. If works do not follow then we do not truly have faith.

...my point exactly.

Originally posted by Nellinator
What the Bible really teaches though, is that we must have faith first and the the fruits of the our faith will follow. If works do not follow then we do not truly have faith

I never got my reindeer.........And I believed a whole bunch.

Yes. Sometime ago Christianity figured out that physical incentives were a much more attractive force to those whose lives were not so horrible they would cling to any hope of potential freedom.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8786335296503381053&q=sex&hl=en

Satan doth evil to some people though.....mostly Christians............lol

Originally posted by debbiejo
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8786335296503381053&q=sex&hl=en

Satan doth evil to some people though.....mostly Christians............lol

Satan is just a myth.