Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Satan is just a myth.
😬
I agree completely, but I've alwys disliked how we now use the word "myth" to mean false. A "myth" can have an infinite amount of intrinsic worth and not be factually true, but because we've turned it into a negative connotation the original meaning(s) of the word is(are) lost and its harder to see the metaphoric truth is something that is factually false.
..sorry, random tangent. And it obviously doesn't apply to the Satan "myth" since there's not a whole lot of good to be had there.
Originally posted by DigiMark007
😬I agree completely, but I've alwys disliked how we now use the word "myth" to mean false. A "myth" can have an infinite amount of intrinsic worth and not be factually true, but because we've turned it into a negative connotation the original meaning(s) of the word is(are) lost and its harder to see the metaphoric truth is something that is factually false.
..sorry, random tangent. And it obviously doesn't apply to the Satan "myth" since there's not a whole lot of good to be had there.
I don't think he meant is as a negative. I think he is just tryin to say that people taking a myth as literal fact can become quite dangerous and unprogressive.
The Myth itself is not harmful, but the intended realization of it is
Re: Biblical salvation, by faith only?
Originally posted by Regret
Biblically, works are necessary, beliefs otherwise are in error. Martin Luther was a great man, but he was in error in promoting a "faith only" belief.
But without faith it is all moot - yes? I understand in the Mormon faith the afterlife isn't simply "You're in Hell or heaven" - but for many Christians that is the case (it seems.)
For them - what damns a person? Sin apparently, since sin (all the way from the fall) stops one getting into heaven - separates one from God. But God set up a faith based system (with Jesus) for salvation.
Basically regardless of what you have done asking for Jesus forgiveness gets one in, and not asking keeps one out. So theoretically while "sin" is blamed it isn't really what gets one sent to hell - rather it is failing to have, or be of, the correct faith.
Yes, to me it sounds like Biblical salvation is by faith only. After all - a person can be full of good works. Yet in conventional Christianity you can good work yourself ragged but that isn't any good without Jesus faith. Likewise it isn't realising one might do bad things, or asking for forgiveness or even Baptism - since numerous faiths and philosophies have comparable practices. I can ask for forgiveness a lot from Allah - yet that isn't going to get me into Christian heaven (or vice versa), and even if I went and splashed out and had an earth mother bath (or whatever) it would qualify as a correct faith based baptism for any Christian Church - it is faith apparently. Sin, self awareness, asking for forgiveness, in religious terms, seem to mean little unless one is a subscriber to the right faith.
Re: Re: Biblical salvation, by faith only?
Originally posted by Imperial_SamuraYes, for many Christian sects your statements do fit absolutely. To a point, they even fit the LDS (Mormon) beliefs. If one is LDS then we believe the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel to be: first faith, second repentance, third baptism by those holding proper authority, fourth receiving the Holy Spirit by the laying on of hands by those of the proper authority. Regardless of this, all mankind will go to heaven, minus a handful (I have heard the largest estimate being around one hundred, smallest less than ten) that had absolute knowledge of the truth and denied it, who will go to Hell (What Mormons refer to as Outer Darkness.) Prior to final judgement, some will be in spirit prison (a form of hell), but even in this state they have the opportunity of entering Paradise before the final judgement. Also, I do not believe any Mormon could make an absolute statement on the position where anyone will exist in Heaven. We believe everyone will have the opportunity to accept the Gospel, we believe that this is what was referred to when the Bible states that the bonds of death were broken, the absolute nature of death was altered through Christ's sacrifice to make it merely temporary or partial, this is why Christ was able to state to the thief that he would be with him in Paradise. So those like the Dalai Lama, the Buddha, various individuals believed to be great good people will have the opportunity of being in any possible state in Heaven.
But without faith it is all moot - yes? I understand in the Mormon faith the afterlife isn't simply "You're in Hell or heaven" - but for many Christians that is the case (it seems.)For them - what damns a person? Sin apparently, since sin (all the way from the fall) stops one getting into heaven - separates one from God. But God set up a faith based system (with Jesus) for salvation.
Basically regardless of what you have done asking for Jesus forgiveness gets one in, and not asking keeps one out. So theoretically while "sin" is blamed it isn't really what gets one sent to hell - rather it is failing to have, or be of, the correct faith.
Yes, to me it sounds like Biblical salvation is by faith only. After all - a person can be full of good works. Yet in conventional Christianity you can good work yourself ragged but that isn't any good without Jesus faith. Likewise it isn't realising one might do bad things, or asking for forgiveness or even Baptism - since numerous faiths and philosophies have comparable practices. I can ask for forgiveness a lot from Allah - yet that isn't going to get me into Christian heaven (or vice versa), and even if I went and splashed out and had an earth mother bath (or whatever) it would qualify as a correct faith based baptism for any Christian Church - it is faith apparently. Sin, self awareness, asking for forgiveness, in religious terms, seem to mean little unless one is a subscriber to the right faith.
Re: Re: Re: Biblical salvation, by faith only?
Originally posted by Regret
Prior to final judgement, some will be in spirit prison (a form of hell), but even in this state they have the opportunity of entering Paradise before the final judgement.
Do they have the Bible in spirit prison? Because, I mean, otherwise, what chance have any of us got.
Also....who's that guy in your signature you have so many pictures of?
Don't tell me he's a mormon...
It's funny how one with all the power condemns the others with no power...Sounds fair huh? This is the bible god.
And why the eternal damnation? Why not just "Wink" them out of existence..In fact since to some god knows all, then why let them be born just to burn forever? Or why create these souls/spirits to be implanted in these bodies since they will reject their creator? Why not just create believers???
Re: Re: Re: Re: Biblical salvation, by faith only?
Originally posted by m. sade
Do they have the Bible in spirit prison? Because, I mean, otherwise, what chance have any of us got.
Originally posted by m. sadeB. F. Skinner, Behavior Analyst, one of the most influential psychologists of our time.
Also....who's that guy in your signature you have so many pictures of?
Don't tell me he's a mormon...
Re: Re: Re: Re: Biblical salvation, by faith only?
Originally posted by m. sade
Also....who's that guy in your signature you have so many pictures of?
Don't tell me he's a mormon...
I don't know if he is a Mormon (I don't think so, but I could be wrong) but I know he is a famous psychologist by the name of Burrhus Skinner (B.F Skinner, don't ask me what the F. stands for, but I remember Burrhus.)
Beaten to the post! Oh well.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Biblical salvation, by faith only?
Originally posted by Imperial_SamuraSorry 😉
I don't know if he is a Mormon (I don't think so, but I could be wrong) but I know he is a famous psychologist by the name of Burrhus Skinner (B.F Skinner, don't ask me what the F. stands for, but I remember Burrhus.)Beaten to the post! Oh well.
No, he wasn't a Mormon. I am unsure of his religious affiliation, but I have always assumed he was an atheist.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Biblical salvation, by faith only?
Originally posted by Regret
Sorry 😉No, he wasn't a Mormon. I am unsure of his religious affiliation, but I have always assumed he was an atheist.
That's ok. I kind of assumed the same (not sure why) but I'm usually not concerned with the religious affiliation of people unless it is relative to what they do (and in most cases it isn't), rather focusing on their achievements, and Skinner has more then enough of those.
Originally posted by DigiMark007
😬I agree completely, but I've alwys disliked how we now use the word "myth" to mean false. A "myth" can have an infinite amount of intrinsic worth and not be factually true, but because we've turned it into a negative connotation the original meaning(s) of the word is(are) lost and its harder to see the metaphoric truth is something that is factually false.
..sorry, random tangent. And it obviously doesn't apply to the Satan "myth" since there's not a whole lot of good to be had there.
I agree with you, and I was not using that word "myth" to mean false.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Biblical salvation, by faith only?
Originally posted by Imperial_SamuraSame here. There are some times when religious views are important factors though, particularly if the subject is philosophical or unobservable in nature, neither of which apply to Skinner's professional views, imo.
That's ok. I kind of assumed the same (not sure why) but I'm usually not concerned with the religious affiliation of people unless it is relative to what they do (and in most cases it isn't), rather focusing on their achievements, and Skinner has more then enough of those.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Biblical salvation, by faith only?
Originally posted by Regret
Same here. There are some times when religious views are important factors though, particularly if the subject is philosophical or unobservable in nature, neither of which apply to Skinner's professional views, imo.
Exactly.
Skinner was one of the very first books I had read on psychology, oh and NO, he wasn't my boyfriend.....He was my boyfriends father.........Sad sad..I know...But at least in prison they get a good education...lol
Unfortunately I don't remember any of it right now....Soooo I can not comment on it in reference to this thread. Though since him there have been new theories on belief in ones own mind. I know Freud was a weirdo and very obsessed with the mother/father/sex thing........Oh and some of his experiments were just too sick! Though this is on the fringe a bit, I do like Jung. His works make more since to me.
People beliefs/experience influence their lives, even their dreams which one can learn from if one knows how to interpret them. It's all consciousness whether you are aware of it or not. Consciousness produces action which effects your environment which then creates you r reality.
Some of us grow up very unconsciousness unfortunately.
Originally posted by debbiejoSkinner's breakthroughs were post Freud, Freud was closer in time to Watson. Freud was never accepted into psychology during his lifetime, and Freud was a quack who had incestuous tendencies for his mother and sister. Most of Freud's beliefs were modified before they were accepted, and his research was poorly documented, so bad that it is probable he doctored much of it. I also have little respect for Jung regardless of his differences from his predecessor. Behavior Analysis is still a strong school of psychology, there is no "since behavior analysis ..." There are currently only two strong schools of thought in psychology, cognitive and behavior analysis, and psychology is split between them. The other schools have minimal impact on psychology today, and seem to be dying off or subsumed by cognitive psychology.
Skinner was one of the very first books I had read on psychology, oh and NO, he wasn't my boyfriend.....He was my boyfriends father.........Sad sad..I know...But at least in prison they get a good education...lolUnfortunately I don't remember any of it right now....Soooo I can not comment on it in reference to this thread. Though since him there have been new theories on belief in ones own mind. I know Freud was a weirdo and very obsessed with the mother/father/sex thing........Oh and some of his experiments were just too sick! Though this is on the fringe a bit, I do like Jung. His works make more since to me.
People beliefs/experience influence their lives, even their dreams which one can learn from if one knows how to interpret them. It's all consciousness whether you are aware of it or not. Consciousness produces action which effects your environment which then creates you r reality.
Some of us grow up very unconsciousness unfortunately.
Physiological psychologists typically fall into one of these two schools in philosophy, but focus in neural study, and are closer to biology oftentimes than psychology.
Psychiatrists tend towards pharmacology, and are typically mainly interested in the impact of chemicals on behaviors than on psychology.