Does God love Rapists?

Originally posted by Kelly_LS
Well I didn't say that he didn't/doesn't love those people, I just asked "Why should he?" And I don't really think there is any wrong answer to this topic, but maybe that is just me? But are you saying that rape is not wrong? I'm not positively sure that I believe everything that is in the Bible, therefore I don't believe that God thinks homosexuality is a sin, otherwise why would the people be BORN homo? God doesn't create a baby and say "Well, I'm going to make you gay just so I can hate you." you know?

Yeah, but for that matter why should he love you? Or me? Or anyone?

Originally posted by Nellinator
God doesn't hate homosexuals. He does not hate anyone.

He does not like homosexuality though. Also, to have people tortured in Hell for eternity is not something a loving person would do.

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
Why.

Sure they've sinned and we are all sinners but God should forsake these types of scum.

To answer your post: the same reason that God loves black racists.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Yeah, but for that matter why should he love you? Or me? Or anyone?

He does not like homosexuality though. Also, to have people tortured in Hell for eternity is not something a loving person would do.

😛

Originally posted by Nellinator
God's love is not conditional.

It is ABSOLUTELY conditional

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
It is [b]ABSOLUTELY conditional [/B]

Originally posted by FeceMan
You're such a n00b.

Prove me wrong Fecesman

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Prove me wrong Fecesman

There, I win.

Originally posted by FeceMan
God loves everyone.

There, I win.

1) you haven't proven it

2) He may love everyone, but his love is still conditional

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
1) you haven't proven it

2) He may love everyone, but his love is still conditional

Originally posted by FeceMan
1. Does it really matter? You'll still say "NUH-UH!"
2. Not true.

1) Yes
2) ✅

Prove to me his Love is unconditional...

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
1) Yes
2) ✅

Prove to me his Love is unconditional...

Originally posted by FeceMan
He sent Jesus to die--painfully--for even rapists, murderers, torturers, and worse.

Why ?

Originally posted by FeceMan
He sent Jesus to die--painfully--for even rapists, murderers, torturers, and worse.

That isn't really unconditional though, since in order for those rapists, murderers, torturers and worse to benefit they still have to meet certain conditions - they, at some point, still have to do certain things in order to receive the benefits.

And it might sound nit-picky but when I want to do something tremendous and notable to show my love of, say, my girlfriend, I do it myself rather then sacrificing someone else. Sure, while the whole "what is a greater sign of caring the sacrificing what one holds most dear (a child)" might have some merit, I think it would have been much more loving if God himself threw himself before the steamroller of sin, rather then his son.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Why ?

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
That isn't really unconditional though, since in order for those rapists, murderers, torturers and worse to benefit they still have to meet certain conditions - they, at some point, still have to do certain things in order to receive the benefits.

And it might sound nit-picky but when I want to do something tremendous and notable to show my love of, say, my girlfriend, I do it myself rather then sacrificing someone else. Sure, while the whole "what is a greater sign of caring the sacrificing what one holds most dear (a child)" might have some merit, I think it would have been much more loving if God himself threw himself before the steamroller of sin, rather then his son.

Christ--being a part of God as the Trinity--desired for this to come about. Although he became afraid in the coming hours of his death--even though he knew what was to come--he did not fight against those who oppressed him. Legions of angels were at Christ's command, and yet he died--because he was chosen, because he chose--so that we might live again.

Yahweh suffered twice in the death of Christ. Not only did His son die, but He, being part of Christ (and vice-versa), died. He withdrew from Christ in the final hours and turned His back on His Son--His Son who was dying on the cross. God suffered an agonizing death, the agonizing death of a loved one, abandonment, and the abandonment of a loved one.

Originally posted by Kelly_LS
Well I haven't raped/murdered/etc anyone......you ha.....Bardock...is there something you're not telling me?

😛

He sent Jesus to die--painfully--for even rapists, murderers, torturers, and worse.

Originally posted by FeceMan
The intent behind the act shows love. There is nothing that needs to be done for God to love.

Has God ever done anything that makes it questionable about how unconditional his love is?

Were did all the people who died during the flood go, what with them not having had access to Jesus, his teachings and his loving sacrifice?

And this is what I mean when I say that non-Christians simply cannot understand the Bible.

Christ--being a part of God as the Trinity--desired for this to come about. Although he became afraid in the coming hours of his death--even though he knew what was to come--he did not fight against those who oppressed him. Legions of angels were at Christ's command, and yet he died--because he was chosen, because he chose--so that we might live again.

Yahweh suffered twice in the death of Christ. Not only did His son die, but He, being part of Christ (and vice-versa), died. He withdrew from Christ in the final hours and turned His back on His Son--His Son who was dying on the cross. God suffered an agonizing death, the agonizing death of a loved one, abandonment, and the abandonment of a loved one.

Which is relevant if you are one of the Christians who views the whole Trinity in that manner. And if I am not mistaken there is quite a lot of debate about that. And has been for a long time. I fear the righteous zeal of that explanation (which I get despite not considering myself a Christian) would be far more convincing if one couldn't cross the road and find another group of Christians with a totally different idea on the Trinity and why Jesus cried out and why God with his unconditional love had to use and abstract and sadistic plan as a means to open the path of salvation for humanity.

At the very least, as the greatest expression of God's love (if one believes it) one would think God would insure it was clear and easy to understand.

, Soooo it's ok for God to send his son to get murdered??? Isn't He breaking a commandment?

No, remember God is protected by the God clause - he can't sin because he said he is above it (I mean if personally killing the people of the world with a flood isn't murder, letting Satan harm those around Job murder or killing the Children of Egypt murder then no way is an abstract "sending Jesus to get killed" murder.)

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Has God ever done anything that makes it questionable about how unconditional his love is?

Were did all the people who died during the flood go, what with them not having had access to Jesus, his teachings and his loving sacrifice?

Which is relevant if you are one of the Christians who views the whole Trinity in that manner. And if I am not mistaken there is quite a lot of debate about that. And has been for a long time. I fear the righteous zeal of that explanation (which I get despite not considering myself a Christian) would be far more convincing if one couldn't cross the road and find another group of Christians with a totally different idea on the Trinity and why Jesus cried out and why God with his unconditional love had to use and abstract and sadistic plan as a means to open the path of salvation for humanity.

At the very least, as the greatest expression of God's love (if one believes it) one would think God would insure it was clear and easy to understand.

No, remember God is protected by the God clause - he can't sin because he said he is above it (I mean if personally killing the people of the world with a flood isn't murder, letting Satan harm those around Job murder or killing the Children of Egypt murder then no way is an abstract "sending Jesus to get killed" murder.)

Also, God was grieved over the world just prior to the Flood. He was saddened because of the judgment He was going to bring, and the pain that His children--through their sin and wickedness--had caused Him.

Originally posted by FeceMan
[size=7]The intent behind the act shows love. There is nothing that needs to be done for God to love.

It would be easier to see the loving intent behind the act of being sent to hell if it wasn't for eternity. I can't imagine a punishment based on loving intent that doesn't have some constructive purpose to it somewhere down the line. As it is, most of us are getting a one-way ticket to hell.

Some people say we cast ourselves down into hell out of self-loathing and shame and whatnot. But if that's true, wouldn't it be theoretically possible to remove ourselves from that position by becoming closer to God... that is, if it was our choice to be there in the first place.

Originally posted by FeceMan
They were wicked and evil; God, like a parent with a child, disciplines His creations. In this case, death might seem harsh, but, should the people have been tried under a legal system with the glory of God as its standard, they would too have received a death sentence.

Would they indeed? Even by ancient standards, where the death penalty was far more common... well, what kinds of crimes were they committing? I mean for the whole world to be given the death penalty they would have to have all been going around killing and committing treason and all the rest.... basically complete anarchy which for some reason leads to all people being bastards.

Or would it have been they might not necessarily have been committing legal crimes, but rather "moral ones" - which is significantly shakier ground.

And how exactly had God disciplined them? A good parent does not do nothing and then out of the blue start whacking the kids - exactly what had God done to educate this evil mass before he suddenly set the flood on them? Were was Jesus with his message and salvation? Were was Moses with some plagues? The story has always sounded more to me like:

"One day God got up and remembered earth and the people. He looked and was disgusted. Thus he decided humanity was stuffed. However he saw Noah, who wasn't stuffed, and decided he would be spared. Thus he wiped out everyone, and then feeling kind of guilty sent a rainbow to show he wouldn't be so summery ever again. Noah and co replenished humanity and God eventually sent Jesus to tell people what was what. The end."

Also, God was grieved over the world just prior to the Flood. He was saddened because of the judgment He was going to bring, and the pain that His children--through their sin and wickedness--had caused Him.

Tell me - does a parent have any responsibility, in your eyes, for the way their children turn out? We can bang on till the cows come home about free will and letting them be what they are, but let us face it, a parent is an influencing factor on child.

Can you honestly say, in the whole "parent" metaphor , that God has been a good parent? What exactly did he do? It seems to go a little like this:

1st - Creates humanity, puts them in a garden and leaves some poison down for them but tells them not to digest it. They do, he gets cross, ejects them from the garden and lets their sin distance humanity from God forever (until Jesus.)

2nd - Destroys some cities and all who dwell there.

3rd - Some stuff with Job, Abraham and all the rest which tends to show God as not the nicest.

4th - Suddenly decides to put the cleaner through humanity and kills everyone but Noah and co.

5th - Gets the Jews out of Egypt after inflicting some terrible things in the Egyptian people.

6th - Lets the Jews wander around for a while and gives them some laws and things about slavery and shellfish.

7th - Gets the Jews to kill the people in the Holy land, settle there, go off the tracks and then get conquered by almost every power that passes by.

8th - Suddenly decides maybe people should have a chance to get into Heaven. Sends Jesus to die horribly, a job well done as Christians then get persecuted for a while before they turn to persecuting and then stop persecuting and instead fight amongst themselves over who is correct.

9th - Will leads humanity through a time of horror and suffering know as revelations.

And some other stuff. What things in the Bible actually support God being a good parent? I mean really - if there was a human with a track record like God as a parent I suspect social services would be getting involved.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
And how exactly had God disciplined them? A good parent does not do nothing and then out of the blue start whacking the kids - exactly what had God done to educate this evil mass before he suddenly set the flood on them? Were was Jesus with his message and salvation? Were was Moses with some plagues? The story has always sounded more to me like:

"One day God got up and remembered earth and the people. He looked and was disgusted. Thus he decided humanity was stuffed. However he saw Noah, who wasn't stuffed, and decided he would be spared. Thus he wiped out everyone, and then feeling kind of guilty sent a rainbow to show he wouldn't be so summery ever again. Noah and co replenished humanity and God eventually sent Jesus to tell people what was what. The end."

Umm...I think you're leaving out a bit of the story. Noah prophesied(preached) to the people while he was building the ark. According to the scripture(s) - human beings lived much longer in those days. I believe the bible, references Noah as preaching to the people for several hundred years, while he was building the ark(more than enough time - for them to be warned about the coming flood).

It has also been alluded by various Christian Scholars and Theologians - that there were other reasons regarding God's judgement - such as the Nephilim(an ancient race of giant half men/half angels...God wanted to wipe all of them off the face of the earth..they were abominations to him..) - and the fact that Satan(and the other fallen angels) had contaminated everyone(all humans) on earth with their demon seed - in order to prevent the *Christ* from coming into the world - who would be the salvation of mankind.

I believe most of this is referenced in the book of Enoch(correct me if I'm wrong though), which was not incorporated into modern biblical translations - due to the fact that it was loosely based on recounted stories passed on through families during the time - and wasn't really considered inspired by God - however - many accept the book to be a fairly accurate historical account of the Nephilim and the pre-flood times(similar to the book of Adam and Eve).

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Tell me - does a parent have any responsibility, in your eyes, for the way their children turn out? We can bang on till the cows come home about free will and letting them be what they are, but let us face it, a parent is an influencing factor on child.

Can you honestly say, in the whole "parent" metaphor , that God has been a good parent? What exactly did he do? It seems to go a little like this:

1st - Creates humanity, puts them in a garden and leaves some poison down for them but tells them not to digest it. They do, he gets cross, ejects them from the garden and lets their sin distance humanity from God forever (until Jesus.)

2nd - Destroys some cities and all who dwell there.

3rd - Some stuff with Job, Abraham and all the rest which tends to show God as not the nicest.

4th - Suddenly decides to put the cleaner through humanity and kills everyone but Noah and co.

5th - Gets the Jews out of Egypt after inflicting some terrible things in the Egyptian people.

6th - Lets the Jews wander around for a while and gives them some laws and things about slavery and shellfish.

7th - Gets the Jews to kill the people in the Holy land, settle there, go off the tracks and then get conquered by almost every power that passes by.

8th - Suddenly decides maybe people should have a chance to get into Heaven. Sends Jesus to die horribly, a job well done as Christians then get persecuted for a while before they turn to persecuting and then stop persecuting and instead fight amongst themselves over who is correct.

9th - Will leads humanity through a time of horror and suffering know as revelations.

And some other stuff. What things in the Bible actually support God being a good parent? I mean really - if there was a human with a track record like God as a parent I suspect social services would be getting involved.

*cough* free will *cough* - Honestly, I don't think that you're giving God his fair due of credit regarding his loving nature. As a parent myself - I understand there is only so much I can do for my child, before I must let him make his own decisions, and go on his own course within life. If I did not do this...or allow them to excercise his *free will* - then how loving of a parent would I be?

So in my humble opinion - I think God's love is similar to that of a truly loving parent - and it goes something like this.

I. He presents the opportunity of free will(The tree of knowledge) - so that we(man) can have a choice on whether or not we would like to love him, or to choose our own lot in life(Unforturnately - instead of graciously asking God for this *free will* or for an understanding of "good and evil" - man decides to take this knowledge forcefully. Man is not entirely responsable for this decision though, as he was somewhat tricked by Satan into stealing this information.) Also - being the loving God that he is - he allows Satan to have some form of authourity while on this earth, pretty much allowing him to do whatever he wants(with some limitations like no control of free will..over the soul, or the heavenly realm) as well as be a *God* in a sense(at least of the earth).

II. He blesses a righteous man named Abraham - so that all mankind will be blessed, and can experience a portion of his inheritance. Thus making it easier for mankind to be reunited with him.

III. In order to not have to severely punish his people - he(God) sends multiple prophets to stop his children from committing evil acts(those acts that bring about harm to others and themselves - like killing sexual..
mmorality..etc)

IV. After multiple warnings - He punishes accordingly and fairly for the sinful acts - giving back to each person, exactly what they've done to other people. This punishment helps to prevent mankind from completely destroying itself...

V. He realizes that no man on earth - or no promise he can make to man - will never be adequate enough to assist man in coming back to him, so he comes down himself, as a gesture of kindness and grace(as well as love) to show man that he does indeed love him, and is willing to be subjected to Satan's evil authourity, just as they are - in order to make it easier for them to come back to him.

VI. He comes down a final time - to bring back all those who love him, -Destroys Satan and his followers - who are now have set their sites on conquering the heavens. Creates a new heaven and a new earth. People can live in peace for eternity.

I didn't really include everything about his love - because I wouldn't have enough space to write it(nor the time - I'd be writing for hundreds, maybe even thousands of years) But to me it sounds like God has a pretty good(perfect) track record of being a model parent. I think he'd have a pretty good case(actually a perfect one) for slander - particularly against anyone who called Social Services on him...and he would indeed receive a huge payout in emotional and physical damages for such false accusations..He..He..

So how does thou like those mangos?