Originally posted by Mr Master
Not at all,the sphere of area affected can be controlled, but it's power is always the same.
Where does it say this? Isn't the UN kinda like the Gl rings? Doesn't it take a specific kind of knowlege to make it operate on higher lvls. Wouldn't reed know how to work the UN much better than quasar?
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Um doesn't he eat? isn't he far more powerful now than when he first came out? In the old days, his death didn't signal the coming of abraxas.
How many times is it you think Galactus has died anyway?
And in the old days Abraxas didn't exist.
And Galactus's Death would still bring about an Unbalanced Universe were he to die in the old days.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
If the UN was so powerful in the old days, Then how come they didn't use it against the Beyonder?
Beyonder was beyond anything.
Beyonder made Marvel his, Beyonder was everything inside the Multi-verse and everything outside the Multi-verse.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
In 2005, DC began Infinite Crisis, a DC-Universe-wide crossover and sequel to Crisis on Infinite Earths. Stories leading up to the main limited series contained scattered references and hints to the Multiverse (including the possibility that it could live again). These references included the character Donna Troy returning from the dead and remembering her varied origins on the various Earths and the revelation that the evil Dark Angel had been her counterpart from Earth-Seven as well as a mini-series involving Captain Atom being sent to the WildStorm Universe.In the Infinite Crisis series itself, the Superman and Lois Lane of Earth-Two, Superboy of Earth-Prime, and Alexander Luthor Jr. of Earth-Three - all survivors of the Multiverse—reappeared, and the former existence of the Multiverse was explicitly acknowledged. Earth-Two was recreated in issue #4, un-populated except for Earth-Two heroes transported there.
In addition to this, worlds previously described only as Imaginary Stories or Elseworlds were revealed to in fact be universes within the Multiverse, as shown by the presence of Superman Red and Superman Blue from the Silver Age imaginary story, Superman Jr. and Batman Jr. from World's Finest stories of the 1970s, the Superman from the Elseworlds story Superman: Red Son, and the brief showing of an unnamed world inspired by Alan Moore's unfinished proposal "Twilight" with the "Superman Family", and Batman, Robin, and Wonder Woman in Aztec garb (this world was actually a combination of two other worlds, the sum of their numbers being 616, which might be a reference to the Marvel Comics universe, which is Earth-616).
Eventually, Alexander's plan was circumvented when his equipment was destroyed by Superboy (Kon-El, a.k.a. Conner Kent), resulting in all Earths re-merging into "New Earth". The effects of this transformation will be shown during the series 52 along with the "One Year Later" storyline.
This explains why Mxy is so powerful and why the joker with 99 percent of it would win. The Spectre isn't shown stopping the UN's power, but I have no doubt that he can. Mxy from world's funnest is shown to be equal or even superior to the Spectre is some aspects.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Where does it say this?
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Isn't the UN kinda like the Gl rings? Doesn't it take a specific kind of knowlege to make it operate on higher lvls. Wouldn't reed know how to work the UN much better than quasar?
Quasar is the one Eon endowed with Cosmic Awareness, a Universal Consciousness.
So if anything, Quasar should be the one with the greater influence.
Originally posted by darthgoober
Wait now I'm confused. If all the universes were merged together again, wouldn't that mean that DC is no longer a multiverse?
According to the Original DC history, there was one Super Universe, more powerful than any, and krona went back and messed it up, splitting all the multiversal power packed into one universe, into the multiverse. After IC, This power was all merged back into the one. So The DCU is actually supposed to be as powerful as the multiverse. Just all in one. But there are still alternate universes. We see this when the JLA met the wild cats and the lord of time created the omniverse. we see it when captain atom went to wildstorm. We see it when the spectre passes from vertigo to dc and back. Even sandman does. So it's a little grey area. THe answer is not conclusive.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
According to the Original DC history, there was one Super Universe, more powerful than any, and krona went back and messed it up, splitting all the multiversal power packed into one universe, into the multiverse. After IC, This power was all merged back into the one. So The DCU is actually supposed to be as powerful as the multiverse. Just all in one. But there are still alternate universes. We see this when the JLA met the wild cats and the lord of time created the omniverse. we see it when captain atom went to wildstorm. We see it when the spectre passes from vertigo to dc and back. Even sandman does. So it's a little grey area. THe answer is not conclusive.
Originally posted by darthgoober
Where does it say that the universe that's "supposed" to be, is anymore powerful than a standard universe? Cause I actually covered that in my review of the Anti Monitor, and the way I see it, each of those separate universe's should have been LESS powerful than a "standard" universe.
You have to look up the history of Krona. The AM was born out of Krona's tampering. It explicity says that Each universe was a shadow of this super universe. As we all know, Pre crisis DCU was very powerful. If this was the case, then How could they be less powerful than the standard?
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
You have to look up the history of Krona. The AM was born out of Krona's tampering. It explicity says that Each universe was a shadow of this super universe. As we all know, Pre crisis DCU was very powerful. If this was the case, then How could they be less powerful than the standard?
Originally posted by darthgoober
I've read Crisis. It said that originally there was a single universe that got split into other universe's. And that the resulting universe's we're weaker than the whole. It never says that it was originally anything other than a standard universe, which would mean that the resulting universe's were weaker than a standard.
IT expicitly says that each universe was weaker than the orginal. It says no where that the original universe was standard. We can extrapolate that the Orginal Universe was far superior than your "standard" universe since it was able to spawn an infinite number of very powerful universe. Or Wouldn't you agree that the marvel 616 was even to the Earth 1 universe?
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
IT expicitly says that each universe was weaker than the orginal. It says no where that the original universe was standard. We can extrapolate that the Orginal Universe was far superior than your "standard" universe since it was able to spawn an infinite number of very powerful universe. Or Wouldn't you agree that the marvel 616 was even to the Earth 1 universe?
Originally posted by darthgoober
No I wouldn't, because it's never covered. Unless Marvel acknowledges that the "original" DC universe was more powerful than any one of it's single universes, than it's not unless DC specifically states that the "original" universe WAS ultra powerful. But nothing like that is ever stated, only that the resulting universes were weaker than the original.
The Spectre, Guardian of the DC Multiverse, is equal to the power of the LT. This is explicit by DC and Marvel. (Both Guardians of thier Universes/Multiverse) It is also shown that Kismet is at least equal to Eternity. Thus making each DC universe equal to each marvel universe. Which would mean that the merging of the universes would result back to the original lvl of power which has to be greater than the power of any split ones, which are shown to be equal to any one marvel reality.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
The Spectre, Guardian of the DC Multiverse, is equal to the power of the LT. This is explicit by DC and Marvel. (Both Guardians of thier Universes/Multiverse) It is also shown that Kismet is at least equal to Eternity. Thus making each DC universe equal to each marvel universe. Which would mean that the merging of the universes would result back to the original lvl of power which has to be greater than the power of any split ones, which are shown to be equal to any one marvel reality.
Originally posted by darthgoober
When was the LT/Spectre thing ever acknowledge other than the non cannon crossover? (Where I might add, it was also acknowledged that Thanos could match the Omega Effect with his eye beams, and Storm beats Wonder Woman.)
That same cross over has DS calling Thanos A "Pale imitation" of himself. But that really isn't relevant.
There have been other implied meetings of the LT and Spectre. The LT has talked about his hooded ally. And the fact that Kismet is shown as being at least equal to eternity, would imply that the spectre and the LT are equal. Since They are both above Eternity and Kismet. Of course I"m doing a bunch of hypothesising but this is what this forum is sense none of these characters battle or meet under our forum guidelines.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
That same cross over has DS calling Thanos A "Pale imitation" of himself. But that really isn't relevant.There have been other implied meetings of the LT and Spectre. The LT has talked about his hooded ally. And the fact that Kismet is shown as being at least equal to eternity, would imply that the spectre and the LT are equal. Since They are both above Eternity and Kismet. Of course I"m doing a bunch of hypothesising but this is what this forum is sense none of these characters battle or meet under our forum guidelines.
You can be allied with someone that has less power than you. America could form an alliance with Ethiopia if it wants, that doesn't make them equal in power. Don't get me wrong, they do serve the same purpose, and both are pretty much supreme within the companies(well technically Spectre isn't since some of those imps trump him, but I'll let that slide), but LT seems to have more power overall. Purpose and power are two very different things.
Same thing with Eternity and Kismet.
Originally posted by darthgoober
And what's the big deal about DS talking shit? He may have SAID that, but Thanos matched him.You can be allied with someone that has less power than you. America could form an alliance with Ethiopia if it wants, that doesn't make them equal in power. Don't get me wrong, they do serve the same purpose, and both are pretty much supreme within the companies(well technically Spectre isn't since some of those imps trump him, but I'll let that slide), but LT seems to have more power overall. Purpose and power are two very different things.
Same thing with Eternity and Kismet.
Mxy could beat The LT. As could the Ultimator. The LT has been beaten right? Doesnt' make him any less important and powerful. THE Spectre actually can be more powerful than The LT since he is the wrath of GOD. On average, he's equal to the LT.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Mxy could beat The LT. As could the Ultimator. The LT has been beaten right? Doesnt' make him any less important and powerful. THE Spectre actually can be more powerful than The LT since he is the wrath of GOD. On average, he's equal to the LT.
Anyway, I have to study up for Tourney picks, but we can continue this tomorrow if you'd like(or later on tonight if I go back online).
Originally posted by darthgoober
LT got beaten by THOTU, which is basically the power of TOAA. Spectre has way more low showing than LT does. The fact that The source didn't make Spectre the second most powerful being in DC(remember all those imps), supports that LT has more power. They're purposes may be pretty much the same, but their power has been demonstrated to be different. Also about the title's, yes Spectre may be the "Wrath" of God, but in my mind that place's his status as something akin to an executioner, LT's status is that of a Judge. You know, the guy that SENDS people to the executioner.Anyway, I have to study up for Tourney picks, but we can continue this tomorrow if you'd like(or later on tonight if I go back online).
The Imps are beyond the LT as well. They can survive the collapse of the Multiverse. Beings like abraxas won't affect them. Didn't abraxas beat the LT? I'm not sure of this tho. The Spectre is also the judge. If you haven't noticed the panels where the spectre controlled the realities multiplied upon themselves. He shaped them and molded them. He is every bit as powerful as the the LT. Also, the Spectre is pretty much the 2nd most powerful being in the DCU. In Vertigo, Michael is the power of God (equal to the heart of the universe and lucifer is michael's equal) In this case, Lucifer and Micheal would be superior to the LT as well. In the DCU, The Source is the power of God, yet again equal to the heart of the universe. which is also superior to the LT. You have yet to show me anyone superior to the Spectre, Who isn't superior to the LT.
