Darth Vader versus Darth Bane
This is Darth Vader in his prime, Darth Bane by the end of PoD, and it's a lightsaber battle. Takes place in the Execution Arena at Geonosis as seen in AotC. Now I know that even PoD Bane would completely destroy him in a lightsaber battle, but I also know that there are others who'd believe that Vader would win, so this should be interesting.
You do realise that Darth Bane was at least on par with Kas'im in dueling, if not better.
And dueling is Vader's weak point, it's been proven that even characters like TPM Obi-Wan are better duelists than Vader, he's simply just too slow.
And I really don't see how Vader would contend with this kind of speed:
'He waited until the last possible second before unleashing the energy bolted up inside of him in a tremendous rush of power. He channelled it through his muscles and limbs, moving so fast it seemed as if time had stopped for the rest of the world. In the blink of an eye he knocked the saber from Sirak's hand, sliced down to shatter his forearm, then spun through and and brought his saber crashing into his opponent's lower leg. It splintered under the impact and Sirak screamed as a shard of gleaming white bone sliced through muscle, sinew and finally skin.'
For an instant none of the spectators [force users] was even aware of what had happened; it took their minds a moment to catch up and register the blur of action that had occurred so much quicker than their eyes could see. - PoD, PG 170.
Originally posted by Sexyback
In those words? No. However he makes it clear, by saying that 'we've never really seen real jedi at work' in regards to the OT in respect to dueling, he states that he wanted the TPM fight scenes to be faster and more ferocious, and he labels Vader as a 'crippled half man half droid'.
That spells out that TPM Obi-Wan > Vader? Sorry, I'm not seeing it. Is Obi-Wan the "faster" duelist? Of course. That's pretty much the message that I'm getting from it. Lucas could also have been referring to "real Jedi" as in Jedi who dueled on a regular basis, like Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon. Obi-Wan in ANH hadn't dueled in forever, last time I checked. Luke was untrained. Sidious didn't duel. Yoda didn't duel. Vader was a Sith.
Even if this is the case, Vader is more powerful than Obi-Wan. In the Force, it's not even a remote contest. Vader is 80% of RotJ Sidious. Obi-Wan doesn't come close to being a fourth of that figure.
Vader and Bane are both pretty strong in terms of the Force. I do not know how powerful Bane is in terms of lightsaber combat, but Vader is sweet with his one-handed Djem So/Force Attack style. Bane is lesser than Sidious, and so is Darth Vader. Hmmm, I would go for Bane, though Vader's strong. Here's how I rank the Sith:
0. Darth Nihilus
1.) Darth Sidious
2.) Exar Kun
3.) Marka Ragnos
4.) Darth Revan
5.) Darth Bane
6.) Naga Sadow
7.) Ulic Qel-Droma
8.) Jacen Solo (well as a Jedi he's higher, but as a Sith, I give him this rank)
9.) Darth Vader
10.) Darth Tyrannus
Originally posted by Sexyback
Bane is slightly above Kas'im in lightsaber combat, that automatically makes him arguably the strongest lightsaber duelist ever after just three years of training. Can I say, uber?
What the f*ck are you talking about? You are so damn annoying I'm starting to feel its my obligation to own you in every topic you attempt to suck Bane's dick, and use this one duel where he got shitted one and try to pass it off as some big victory.
Bane is NOT above Kas'im in lightsaber combat, the ONLY reason he wasn't ass raped right on the spot was because he MEMORIZED, Kasim's movements, it was mechanically, he simply saw a set of forms and knew how to counter them. When Kas'im busts out his Jar Kari, that Bane had never seen, he panics. and in turn his only thought his running away trying not to get his head cut off. That is NOT a definition of skill. Hell Kas'im even told him NOT to rely on set's of forms and memorizing.
And even still Kas'im is not the be all end all of dueling, the quote said PERHAPS ever and almost all of the comments about him in the novel are in hyperbole, and we have the fact that you the NSO sucked floppy donkey dick as a collective era.
This ALONE will beat Bane.
"His style borrowed elements from all techniques of combat, even from the highest, most dangerous levels, and his moves were crisp and unpredictable ." - RODV.
If Bane can't memorize and recognize it as a set form then he gets owned. Which he will.
Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Bane is NOT above Kas'im in lightsaber combat, the ONLY reason he wasn't ass raped right on the spot was because he MEMORIZED, Kasim's movements, it was mechanically, he simply saw a set of forms and knew how to counter them. When Kas'im busts out his Jar Kari, that Bane had never seen, he panics. and in turn his only thought his running away trying not to get his head cut off. That is NOT a definition of skill. Hell Kas'im even told him NOT to rely on set's of forms and memorizing.
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Just to be fair, while Bane was familiar with Kas'im's dueling technique, so was Kas'im with Bane.
Kas'im taught Bane, so it's logical he would be just as familiar (if not more so) with Bane's technique. The familiarity was on both sides, and as a result it is not something to downplay Bane by. The reason why Kas'im said that Bane had a chance to "finish him" is because of pure skills.
It would be like saying in the Anakin versus Obi Wan fight, Obi Wan only won by knowing Anakin's moves. Is this true? Of course not. Anakin knew Obi-Wan's moves just as well. Kenobi won that battle by his Soresu skills and level headedness, whereas Anakin suffered from a key character flaw, recklesness.
Kas'im was winning by his knowledge of all of Bane's attacks, whereas Bane knew nothing about this new style that Kas'im was using.
Originally posted by zephiel7
Just to be fair, while Bane was familiar with Kas'im's dueling technique, so was Kas'im with Bane.Kas'im taught Bane, so it's logical he would be just as familiar (if not more so) with Bane's technique. The familiarity was on both sides, and as a result it is not something to downplay Bane by. The reason why Kas'im said that Bane had a chance to "finish him" is because of pure skills.
It would be like saying in the Anakin versus Obi Wan fight, Obi Wan only won by knowing Anakin's moves. Is this true? Of course not. Anakin knew Obi-Wan's moves just as well. Kenobi won that battle by his Soresu skills and level headedness, whereas Anakin suffered from a key character flaw, recklesness.
Oh it down plays them both, is it Bane's skill with a blade he had just gotten a few weeks ago or is Kas'im's suckage that he couldn't beat a student who had just gotten his saber a few weeks ago.
The difference with Anakin and Obi Wan and Bane and Kas'im, is Anakin was stronger then Obi Wan in every physical way and in the force too where ass Kas'im is better then Bane in everyway and Bane only won because Kas'im decided to give a speech UNDER the temple, had he take 6 steps forward and given his speech Bane would have been dead.
Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Oh it down plays them both, is it Bane's skill with a blade he had just gotten a few weeks ago or is Kas'im's suckage that he couldn't beat a student who had just gotten his saber a few weeks ago.
Really? I see the fact that Bane was able to keep up against someone who has "mastered all seven forms of the lighstaber," and who "honed his skill for decades, perfecting every move and sequence until he had become the perfect weapon and the greatest living swordsman in the galaxy. Maybe the greatest swordsman ever." as only a sign of Bane's prodigy.
I would believe this was Karapshyn's intent (most likely) with Bane: Put the legendary Sith'ari in a fight against arguably the most powerful duelist ever, just to highlight how prodigous he really is. In a few months his skill in the saber evolved that he was able to keep up with one of the greatest lightsaber duelists in all the galaxy.
This quote is not unsupported. It clearly indicates that Kas'im mastered all the forms, and spent decades afterwards perfecting it even further. This would indicate that he very well could be the strongest pure duelist ever.
Bane in everyway and Bane only won because Kas'im decided to give a speech UNDER the temple
I agree with you. When Kas'im introduced his Jar Kai style, he was defeating Bane. I consider that round two.
However before that:
'The Blademaster became desperate. Leaping, spinning, ducking, rolling: he was wild and reckless in his retreat, seeking now only to escape with his life. But he didn't know the temple like Bane did. bane kept the routes to the outside cut off, slowly herding his opponent into a dead-end hallway.
Recognising what was happening, Kas'im blew open the heavy door of a side room with the force and dived inside. Bane knew there was no other exit, and he paused at the threshold of the room to savor his victory.
The Twi'lek stood in the center of the empty chamber, panting heavily, stooped ever so slightly, his head bowed. He looked up when Bane stepped through the doorway. But when his gaze met Bane's, there was no hint of defeat in his eyes.
"You should have finished me when you had the chance," he said.
In "round one" as you can see, Bane was clearly overpowering Kas'im. He wasted time, "savouring his victory" and missed the oppurtunity to kill Kas'im. The battle clearly puts Bane almost equal to if not greater than Kas'im.
Now assuming this is Bane by the end of PoD, he has faced someone who has trained in "every facet of lightsaber dueling", and who has "honed that skill for decades." He has had a first hand experience as to almost all the lightsaber forms and techniques (with the exception of Vaapad of course.) He will more likely than not be prepared for anything Skywalker has to throw at him.
As I said, almost all his "teh uber" quotes are hyperbole.
And how about the fact that in "round 1" Kas'im uses the same sets, he used against Bane in his practice duels
"They had fought too many times in the past for him to surprise Bane now. Over the course of his training Bane had seen every possible sequence, series, move and trick with the double-bladed saber, and he knew how to counter and nullify them all. pg 243
As I said Bane had seen it all and when Kas'im showed him something new he panicked and was owned. And Vader doesn't fight in predictable sets.
I rest my case.