Thanos vs Superman

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Don't regress.. I already pwned you on the subject years ago... Do you ACTUALLY believe the writer was trying to convey the point that Thanos can overpower Hulk and Things neck muscles... yet... know the reader will go... see the writer only watned to show him overpowring neck muslces but we all know if he tried that another way he would fail.. I mean honestly do you believe that was the writers intent... NO THE INTENT WAS QUITE CLEAR... it had nothing to do with neck muscles or this muscle.. what it had to do with was the writer showing beyond a shadow of a doubt that Thanos is stronger than both of them combined. He showed us that visually and WITH narration... "you call yourselves strong.. I'm strength personified" as he proceeds to bash there heads together. I already pwned you on this matter years ago.. and yet you trying to bring it up again??? Desperate are we?

Writer's opinions don't mean anything since other writers have different opinions. One writer had Hulk stronger than Thanos as shown in the panel as his intent. Another writer intended for Sentry to be as powerful as Galactus. We must take what is shown more than what is intended.

Also the same writer had Thor restrain Thanos and also Hulk restrain him too. Plus Hulk is variable. We shouldn't always assume Hulk is at a certain strength all the time.Namor koed the Hulk in one blow so is Namor stronger than Thanos and Superman? Hulk could be operating at low class 100 strength for all we know and then increase from there. Professor Hulk is the weakest Hulk. So being stronger than a base Professor Hulk means nothing. Superman may be millions or more times stronger than base Professor Hulk.

Originally posted by bbrem123
wait wait wait....is he really using pinching skin as a feat to compare strength?

facepalm

Originally posted by psycho gundam
facepalm

Originally posted by h1a8
Writer's opinions don't mean anything since other writers have different opinions. One writer had Hulk stronger than Thanos as shown in the panel as his intent. Another writer intended for Sentry to be as powerful as Galactus. We must take what is shown more than what is intended.

Also the same writer had Thor restrain Thanos and also Hulk restrain him too. Plus Hulk is variable. We shouldn't always assume Hulk is at a certain strength all the time.Namor koed the Hulk in one blow so is Namor stronger than Thanos and Superman? Hulk could be operating at low class 100 strength for all we know and then increase from there. Professor Hulk is the weakest Hulk. So being stronger than a base Professor Hulk means nothing. Superman may be millions or more times stronger than base Professor Hulk.

From the other thread yes. If I can pinch adamantium as easy as my own skin then I'm a bad MFker.

Wow.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Don't regress.. I already pwned you on the subject years ago... Do you ACTUALLY believe the writer was trying to convey the point that Thanos can overpower Hulk and Things neck muscles... yet... know the reader will go... see the writer only watned to show him overpowring neck muslces but we all know if he tried that another way he would fail.. I mean honestly do you believe that was the writers intent... NO THE INTENT WAS QUITE CLEAR... it had nothing to do with neck muscles or this muscle.. what it had to do with was the writer showing beyond a shadow of a doubt that Thanos is stronger than both of them combined. He showed us that visually and WITH narration... "you call yourselves strong.. I'm strength personified" as he proceeds to bash there heads together. I already pwned you on this matter years ago.. and yet you trying to bring it up again??? Desperate are we?

This is a bit much given the way you have responded to scenes such as Thanos comparing his encounter with a Champion with Power Gem who was busting up his shields and getting stronger and stronger to fighting the Hulk - what do you think the writer was trying to convey there? Or when Thor and Hulk pulled Thanos off Surfer and restrained him? From memory you came up with all sorts of reasons why Thanos wasnt really trying or that he actually meant something entirely different when he said that.

Originally posted by h1a8
I didn't see Superman being koed. In one panel he is woozy and then in the next panel he is coherent.

But this is DD we are talking about.

With that said, you are using fallacious reasoning here.

You are showing low feats and asking if another (at their best) can ever have such low feats.

I can show many examples of a character's low feat and ask do you think this other character could possibly have such a low feat.

When Namor koed Hulk in one blow. I could ask could Superman ever been koed in one blow by Namor. See the fallacy?

When has Namor KOed Hulk with one blow? I'm 99% certain this has never happened.

Originally posted by Fifthchild
When has Namor KOed Hulk with one blow? I'm 99% certain this has never happened.

It never happened. He is referring to the fight where Namor takes Hulk to the Ocean and then they fight for a bit and Namor punch Hulk out of the Ocean ending with Hulk being koed.

Originally posted by carver9
It never happened. He is referring to the fight where Namor takes Hulk to the Ocean and then they fight for a bit and Namor punch Hulk out of the Ocean ending with Hulk being koed.

OK, thought so.

Originally posted by Fifthchild
This is a bit much given the way you have responded to scenes such as Thanos comparing his encounter with a Champion with Power Gem who was busting up his shields and getting stronger and stronger to fighting the Hulk - what do you think the writer was trying to convey there? Or when Thor and Hulk pulled Thanos off Surfer and restrained him? From memory you came up with all sorts of reasons why Thanos wasnt really trying or that he actually meant something entirely different when he said that.

First, so you agree with h1a8 that the writer was trying to show that Thanos can overpower there neck muscles but nothing else? I pray that isn't also your stance....

Second, in the instance of Champion I've been quite clear... That was thanos acknowledging that Hulk is a brute and a strong brute at that. Nothing more. I would take that line only as far as...Thanos would PREFER to not engage Hulk in a physical battle when he was so many other ways to beat him. The reason you can only take it that far is because since then Thanos has encountered the hulk 3 times and NOT ONCE did he back down or run away or avoid anything. In fact, he treated him like a weak feeb once and the other time he pimp slapped him away like a weak feeb. So as you can see, actions have shown you can take those words only that far.

Third, are you kidding me with this... So when you see countless fights in real life or on tv... and friends or strangers are holding back someone from getting at another... Do we go... look.. he is clearly stronger than that guy... WTF... No we don't. Most times.. they aren't really trying to get away, they are more acting like they are trying to get at the other person but really don't want none... nor do they really wanna try and throw down a friend. In that scese that is EXACTLY what was going down. Thanos didn't look like he was really resisting at all.. there were bigger fish to fry. The point is, to use that scene as proof they are stronger than thanos is simply laughable.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
First, so you agree with h1a8 that the writer was trying to show that Thanos can overpower there neck muscles but nothing else? I pray that isn't also your stance....

If you want to go with a vrey literal interpretation of it then i guess we would conclude something like that. However if someone wants to go with more of a "writers intent" approach then i think that scene was supposed to be a demonstration of strength for Thanos. I admit that. However there are of course conflicting pieces of evidence.

Second, in the instance of Champion I've been quite clear... That was thanos acknowledging that Hulk is a brute and a strong brute at that. Nothing more. I would take that line only as far as...Thanos would PREFER to not engage Hulk in a physical battle when he was so many other ways to beat him. The reason you can only take it that far is because since then Thanos has encountered the hulk 3 times and NOT ONCE did he back down or run away or avoid anything. In fact, he treated him like a weak feeb once and the other time he pimp slapped him away like a weak feeb. So as you can see, actions have shown you can take those words only that far.

And now you have done a complete 180 - suddenly its not about writer intent or as you put it "I mean honestly do you believe that was the writers intent... NO THE INTENT WAS QUITE CLEAR..." and we have all these explanations that "Thanos only thought that but he was actually mistaken". This is a double standard.

I would actually argue with you somewhat about Thanos not running away - after he ineffectually "pimp slapped" Drax and Hulk his very next move was to tell them all to stay back or he would kill himself and them with a nuke.

Third, are you kidding me with this... So when you see countless fights in real life or on tv... and friends or strangers are holding back someone from getting at another... Do we go... look.. he is clearly stronger than that guy... WTF... No we don't. Most times.. they aren't really trying to get away, they are more acting like they are trying to get at the other person but really don't want none... nor do they really wanna try and throw down a friend. In that scese that is EXACTLY what was going down. Thanos didn't look like he was really resisting at all.. there were bigger fish to fry. The point is, to use that scene as proof they are stronger than thanos is simply laughable.

Its hardly laughable. I provided scans in that other thread that showed Thanos saying that Surfer was lucky he had Hulk and Thor to save him, Dr Strange saying they had to force Thanos to back down and in the end Strange had to put Surfer and Thanos down again. Warlock asks Strange to summon those powerful enough to separate Thanos and Surfer and when Strange pulls up Thor and Hulk to grab Thanos and Drax and Firelord for Surfer (while Doom stands around being useless) he says "They will do nicely". I think the writers intent here was pretty clear.

Wow, Fifthchild is H1 lvl at posting facepalm

Originally posted by Fifthchild
If you want to go with a vrey literal interpretation of it then i guess we would conclude something like that. However if someone wants to go with more of a "writers intent" approach then i think that scene was supposed to be a demonstration of strength for Thanos. I admit that. However there are of course conflicting pieces of evidence.

And now you have done a complete 180 - suddenly its not about writer intent or as you put it "I mean honestly do you believe that was the writers intent... NO THE INTENT WAS QUITE CLEAR..." and we have all these explanations that "Thanos only thought that but he was actually mistaken". This is a double standard.

I would actually argue with you somewhat about Thanos not running away - after he ineffectually "pimp slapped" Drax and Hulk his very next move was to tell them all to stay back or he would kill himself and them with a nuke.

Its hardly laughable. I provided scans in that other thread that showed Thanos saying that Surfer was lucky he had Hulk and Thor to save him, Dr Strange saying they had to force Thanos to back down and in the end Strange had to put Surfer and Thanos down again. Warlock asks Strange to summon those powerful enough to separate Thanos and Surfer and when Strange pulls up Thor and Hulk to grab Thanos and Drax and Firelord for Surfer (while Doom stands around being useless) he says "They will do nicely". I think the writers intent here was pretty clear.

I'm hoping you understand the concept of levels of intent...

On one hand we have narration AND action in showing Thanos overpowring The Hulk and The THing like they are weak feebs. In fact, he is shown overpowring them and then the writer also gives us narration saying... "you call yourselves strong.. I'm strength personified"
Very clear and decisive narration and illustration. Now that is in stark contrast to what we are shown in Thanos comments about Hulk... Thanos makes an analytical comment about the Hulk and says this is what it must be like to fight The hulk.. such a physical encounter I'd rather avoid. Umm Duh... he can beat the Champion by tricking him or simply bfring him with ease like he did in each instance.. Why would he choose to engage in physical confrontration with either when it's really that ease... Yet what we have there is just hiim commenting on how he'd rather avoid such a thing.. it isn't narration PLUS him running away is it... no no no.. Plus we're shown in subsequent issues that he isn't afraid of the hulk and will stand his ground, thus making my take on it (which one could already make without the later action) even more proof positive. He has never run from the hulk or shown to be afraid of facing the hulk, in fact, he's shown to treat him like a weak feeb when they did meet.

Lastly, you keep bringing up an instance where Thanos wasn't actively trying to get away... Can you post any narration or illustration that is proof positive that Thanos was.. with all his strength.. trying to get them off of him? You can't. So what we have in a common set up that we see in TV, movies or ANY GENRE... People holding back someone from fighting. Nothing more. Let me ask you.... When you've seen people about to go at it and friends getting in between them and holding them back... DO YOU SAY... WOW THAT GUY OR GUYS ARE STRONGER THAN THAT DUDE THEY ARE HOLDING BACK FOR SURE? Or do we often see it just as them not trying very hard to get away and more like acting like they are? It's very simple and a scene we've seen play out countless times across all genres.. we don't go... ooo look he's holiding him back.. he's stronger... wtf...

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I'm hoping you understand the concept of levels of intent...

On one hand we have narration AND action in showing Thanos overpowring The Hulk and The THing like they are weak feebs. In fact, he is shown overpowring them and then the writer also gives us narration saying... "you call yourselves strong.. I'm strength personified"
Very clear and decisive narration and illustration. Now that is in stark contrast to what we are shown in Thanos comments about Hulk... Thanos makes an analytical comment about the Hulk and says this is what it must be like to fight The hulk.. such a physical encounter I'd rather avoid. Umm Duh... he can beat the Champion by tricking him or simply bfring him with ease like he did in each instance.. Why would he choose to engage in physical confrontration with either when it's really that ease...

Why did he choose to play such a strategic game with Champion, avoiding any physical matchup using all his skill, nerve and brains to bluff his way through the encounter and trick Champion into pwning himself if he could just beat the hell out of him and take the gem? Weve frequently seen Thanos go looking for fights just for the hell of it, even against people he probably couldnt beat at the end of the day. And yet he didnt want to do this against the Hulk. Here you are trying to sell the idea that he just didnt want to get his hands dirty. Do you really think thats what the writer was trying to get across in that scene?

Yet what we have there is just hiim commenting on how he'd rather avoid such a thing.. it isn't narration PLUS him running away is it... no no no..Plus we're shown in subsequent issues that he isn't afraid of the hulk and will stand his ground, thus making my take on it (which one could already make without the later action) even more proof positive. He has never run from the hulk or shown to be afraid of facing the hulk, in fact, he's shown to treat him like a weak feeb when they did meet.

He did once but other encounters havent quite played out that way.

Lastly, you keep bringing up an instance where Thanos wasn't actively trying to get away... Can you post any narration or illustration that is proof positive that Thanos was.. with all his strength.. trying to get them off of him? You can't.

Again - i love how flexible you are with your standards of proof. You are practically shouting at one poster to focus on what the writer intended and what the scene seems to show rather than thinking out different excuses and explanations but things change very quickly when its Thanos whose on the receiving end of things...

So what we have in a common set up that we see in TV, movies or ANY GENRE... People holding back someone from fighting. Nothing more. Let me ask you.... When you've seen people about to go at it and friends getting in between them and holding them back... DO YOU SAY... WOW THAT GUY OR GUYS ARE STRONGER THAN THAT DUDE THEY ARE HOLDING BACK FOR SURE?

Yeah i think that would be a safe conclusion that the two guys holding the guy back are together stronger than the one guy they are dragging around.

Or do we often see it just as them not trying very hard to get away and more like acting like they are?

So the fact that in real life people might sometimes not try that hard to get away means that it always happens or that thats what is happening here? Thanos just letting his good buddies Hulk and Thor manhandle him? Generally people are restrained by superior force. If the restrained party doesnt resist that doesnt mean its because he is stronger and just likes being touched up either. Its usually because he knows he would just be overpowered anyway.

It's very simple and a scene we've seen play out countless times across all genres.. we don't go... ooo look he's holiding him back.. he's stronger... wtf...

Let me turn your own question back at you: can you post any narration or illustration that is proof positive of this theory of yours that Thanos was not using all his strength to try and get them off of him? You can't.

OTOH what do you think the writers intent may have been in this scene?

"Neither of us have the power to separate these lunatics"
"But you can summon those who do....These will do nicely."

Again - this whole thing is just about using the same standards of debate that you urged on someone else a couple of pages back.

Again... do you think the levels of intent are the same as you didn't answer my question...

1. On one hand we have a comic that SHOWED Thanos overpower hulk with help like a weak feeb.. The illustration was further backed up by the narration.. which we already know what was said. So... we have art PLUS narration backing up the notion that Thanos is stronger than the hulk or at the very least isn't afraid of a confrontation between the two. That point should be without dispute.

2. Now you're trying to compare the above as far as level of intent.. with .. Thanos saying he has sought to avoid a battle with the hulk as he is fighting somebody similiar to the hulk as proof he's scared of the hulk. There was no illustration to back up that statement... Hulk didn't show up and Thanos leave.. confirming his thoughts.. He also didn't leave his fight with The CHampion who he was comparing to the Hulk. So in your opinion those are the same levels of intent?

Fifthchild you keep using Stranges statement as some kind of proof, so how do you explain Stranges statement that the only person capable of stopping Thanos was Surfer and that was with Savage Hulk and Genis Vell present aswell.

And 😂 at trying to compare Champs strength to Hulk via Champions words. Thanos was talikng about strength increasing with anger as a comparison not actual stregth lvls itself as Thanos at that point had never faced Hulk so he didnt know Hulks strength lvl

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Again... do you think the levels of intent are the same as you didn't answer my question...

Do i think there was some deeper level of intent in the Hulk, Thing scene? No, not really. I think its pretty clear that in one the writer meant to show Thanos overpowering Hulk and Thing and in the other the writer meant to make a pretty blatant comparison between Champion and the Hulk and how Thanos felt about fighting them.

1. On one hand we have a comic that SHOWED Thanos overpower hulk with help like a weak feeb.. The illustration was further backed up by the narration..

There was no narration in that scene. At least none that wasnt just a characters voiceover.

which we already know what was said. So... we have art PLUS narration backing up the notion that Thanos is stronger than the hulk or at the very least isn't afraid of a confrontation between the two. That point should be without dispute.

I like how its now art PLUS narration as if you have managed to make two separate events out of the one scene.

2. Now you're trying to compare the above as far as level of intent.. with .. Thanos saying he has sought to avoid a battle with the hulk as he is fighting somebody similiar to the hulk as proof he's scared of the hulk. There was no illustration to back up that statement... Hulk didn't show up and Thanos leave.. confirming his thoughts.. He also didn't leave his fight with The CHampion who he was comparing to the Hulk. So in your opinion those are the same levels of intent?

I didnt say Thanos was scared of The Hulk. Thanos didnt have to run away from Champion for what he said to be true. I said that from Thanos words we can tell that the writer intended for the fight against Champion to be similar to how a fight against Hulk might be. Which is pretty much exactly what Thanos said. And in that fight Thanos was facing someone who was his physical superior.

As for "levels of intent": I will grant you that the Hulk/Thing scene carries a little extra oomph being that it depicts an actual encounter as opposed to Thanos contemplating what it would be like to fight the Hulk. And perhaps its worth more from a continuity perspective for that reason. But on the level of writer intent, which is what we are discussing, I think its pretty clear what the writer is saying in both cases and i dont go along with your "levels of intent" hypothesis. The whole point of people bringing up writers intent is to bypass all the "Oh but he wasnt in his right mind/it was just that characters opinion/that feat is overrate because..." arguing and rationalisations that we all do and ask someone what you would take from that scene if you didnt go to great effort to fit the scene into other continuity or your own particular worldview by adding subtext, real world explanations etc. Otherwise...neck muscles.

Originally posted by Nihilist
[B]Fifthchild you keep using Stranges statement as some kind of proof, so how do you explain Stranges statement that the only person capable of stopping Thanos was Surfer and that was with Savage Hulk and Genis Vell present aswell.

I'm not familiar with the example in question but it doesnt seem particularly relevant - the subject of discussion is physical strength rather than "who would win" and my entire involvement in the thread is all about Kurupts very selective use of "writers intent" as a standard of proof.

As weve already seen, like most things in comics, i think we have some scenes in continuity which show some pretty wildly differing and probably inconsistent interpretations of Thanos relative physical strength. Im not as bothered by the idea of different writers portraying different or even contradictory ideas at different times as some people here seem to be so i dont always feel compelled to come up with interpretations that force everything to fit together. At least not all the time and particularly not when discussing writers intent which i think everyone must agree is not going to be the same from issue to issue.

And 😂 at trying to compare Champs strength to Hulk via Champions words. Thanos was talikng about strength increasing with anger as a comparison not actual stregth lvls itself as Thanos at that point had never faced Hulk so he didnt know Hulks strength lvl

That's one way the two are similar. Thanos said "In many ways I assume this is what it would be like battling the Terran behemoth the Hulk". Given that this whole discussion revolves around "writers intent", arguing over semantics is a lot less meaningful than it might be in another debate. Even so it doesnt seem like the scene backs up that particular interpretation.

Wrong thread. LOL

LOL at being stronger than a weak Hulk means you are stronger than Superman.

Originally posted by h1a8
LOL at being stronger than a weak Hulk means you are stronger than Superman.