Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I recall someone posting that Strange has taken on Moondragon (with the mindgem?).
and beaten her. With the Eye of Agamotto, Strange's mental capabilities are VERY, VERY high. Anyone who says he's not on manhunter's level knows nothing about him.
Mental attacks on strange would be totally ineffective.
And yet the rest of the scenario is just as viable. Stange isn't immunt to a speed blitz punch to the face before he utters or even thinks one spell.
Strange has autoshields up at all times, so he doesnt HAVE to utter or think a spell to survive a blitz. Give him enough time to think (which he DEFINITELY has here...superman isn't THAT fast) and he's got even stronger shields up, or stops time.
Give it up, a speedblitz is almost worthless against strange.
MM reads stranges mind and makes him forget all of his spells in a nano second. Green lantern puts a bubble around BB's head. He can now not scream unless he wants to explode his own head and he can't draw upon any electron energy thru his tuning fork. Superman beats the hell out of Namor and Iron man. Zatanna Turns Mr. Fantastic into a chair and gives it to batman to sin on cuz he's not needed. Red Tornado's andoid body has no mind for professor x to muck with and he's basically fliped over in his chair by one good wind gust. If it's the Human red tornado, Superman can zap the professor with a flash of heat vision during his light speed creming of Namor and Iron man and leave the professor as a pile of ash before he gets one psy bolt out.
This is so wrong it's almost laughable. The only way this could happen is if the illuminati stood there like punching bags and didn't fight back.
Strange is immune to mind control and has taken on telepaths WAY stronger than manhunter.
Black Bolt is immune to his own power (otherwise he'd blast himself apart everytime he screamed) and what's a bubble going to do? The scream isn't sonic, and his energy doesn't come from the tuning fork, it's just a focus to help him concentrate. Green Lantern has NEVER encountered black bolt anyway, so would never use this tactic in the first place.
Black Bolt Also has superspeed and matter manipulation. In the unlikely event a "bubble" could block the scream, An antimatter attack on green lantern or would be just as effective.
This fight is more likely to go: Strange Throws up a barrier around the team and/or a time stop, negating any blitz tactics, then blackbolt lets go with a full force scream, instantly killing the manhunter, zatanna, red tornado, and batman, and seriously putting a hurt on superman and the lantern. The rest is clean up.
right you are^
http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/5919/durablecf0.jpg
he regained conciousness before both Namor and SURFER after an attack. true testament to the power of his shields.
and his reaction time is pretty damn fast. puts up his shields...surfer was sneak attacking him here.
http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/594/surfer2ph4.jpg
This fight is more likely to go: Strange Throws up a barrier around the team and/or a time stop, negating any blitz tactics, then blackbolt lets go with a full force scream, instantly killing the manhunter, zatanna, red tornado, and batman, and seriously putting a hurt on superman and the lantern. The rest is clean up.
quite right. strange could pretty much win this on his own.
Even though clearly Dr strange sticks out above the rest here, Blackbolt is a serious competator here, and even iron man. I wouldent just dismiss him. But more speciffically, blackbolt's scream would eliminate a few JLA members, at the minimum, batman and it would cause serious harm to Maritan Manhunter. Phaze shift will be useless against a scream unless his phaze shift shifts him into another dimension. And if im not mistaken, it doesnt.
So instead, hes going to phaze shift and find his molecules in popular family resorts such as mars, Saturn, and even the mysterious planet, Neptune.
And if zatanna isint paying attention, she's probably dead too
Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
Even though clearly Dr strange sticks out above the rest here, Blackbolt is a serious competator here, and even iron man. I wouldent just dismiss him. But more speciffically, blackbolt's scream would eliminate a few JLA members, at the minimum, batman and it would cause serious harm to Maritan Manhunter. Phaze shift will be useless against a scream unless his phaze shift shifts him into another dimension. And if im not mistaken, it doesnt.So instead, hes going to phaze shift and find his molecules in popular family resorts such as mars, Saturn, and even the mysterious planet, Neptune.
And if zatanna isint paying attention, she's probably dead too
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Of course, the entire JLA will be dead. Becuz Zatanna, isn't even there? Superman isn't speed blitzing anyone. GL hasn't face hihg omnipotent magical opponents, and MM can't read BB's mind and know that he can scream. yeah ur right.
Hypotheticly. (my post) i was addressing someone who commented that MM could avoid a scream if he had to via Phaze shift, and that is not correct. Anyway, as far as MM reading BB's mind as well, thats also debateable as BB has proven a very very strong resistance to telepathy in the past on a few occassians. Debateable, but regardless, Stritcly speaking MM to BB, MM loses.
Everyones skipping to max output tehcinques first, and its makeing this debate a little difficult
Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
Hypotheticly. (my post) i was addressing someone who commented that MM could avoid a scream if he had to via Phaze shift, and that is not correct. Anyway, as far as MM reading BB's mind as well, thats also debateable as BB has proven a very very strong resistance to telepathy in the past on a few occassians. Debateable, but regardless, Stritcly speaking MM to BB, MM loses.Everyones skipping to max output tehcinques first, and its makeing this debate a little difficult
HOw is MM losing when he's more versatile than BB? He's def as strong. And he's got enough powers to much with him. Besides this Set up isn't even fair. Even tho I think Zatanna can take out strange as he could take her out. No one is thinkign like that. It needs to be totally redone with a better match up. Cuz strange's power is all over the place.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
HOw is MM losing when he's more versatile than BB? He's def as strong. And he's got enough powers to much with him. Besides this Set up isn't even fair. Even tho I think Zatanna can take out strange as he could take her out. No one is thinkign like that. It needs to be totally redone with a better match up. Cuz strange's power is all over the place.
Primary reason MM could lose is due to the scream, which would undoutably tear him to pieces, or atleast very close to it. He is more versatile, but BB's energy projection alone is even a good match for MM. BB is very versatile as well, more than most people might think. Anyways, that matchup aside, strange's power is indeed all over the place.
I dont doubt that he could do alot here though, and At the minimum his biggest problems IMO would be superman and zatanna, but i dont think thats entirely out of his domain. ESP superman, but ill admit my zatanna knoweldge is a bit vauge. In addition, i have absolutely NO knoweldge about red tornado.
Strange is clearly the strongest here and he has enough support to do alot of wild tihngs. But i wouldnet go as far as to say that this is strange vs JLA, becuase i dont think its fair to say he'd win that either. Still, i think illuminati takes this, and a big part of that is bcaus of strange
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I recall someone posting that Strange has taken on Moondragon (with the mindgem?).
Bad writing. It's been stated time and time again that X > Strange in telepathy even with Strange in the room and I believe he's even admitted to as much himself and Moondragon with the Mind Gem is wayyyyy above X.
Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
Primary reason MM could lose is due to the scream, which would undoutably tear him to pieces, or atleast very close to it. He is more versatile, but BB's energy projection alone is even a good match for MM. BB is very versatile as well, more than most people might think. Anyways, that matchup aside, strange's power is indeed all over the place.I dont doubt that he could do alot here though, and At the minimum his biggest problems IMO would be superman and zatanna, but i dont think thats entirely out of his domain. ESP superman, but ill admit my zatanna knoweldge is a bit vauge. In addition, i have absolutely NO knoweldge about red tornado.
Strange is clearly the strongest here and he has enough support to do alot of wild tihngs. But i wouldnet go as far as to say that this is strange vs JLA, becuase i dont think its fair to say he'd win that either. Still, i think illuminati takes this, and a big part of that is bcaus of strange
And the OP made it that way. I wonder if I were to make it the Illuminati vs the Justice Society or A better pick of the JLA, how would they fare? Not good at all.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
And the OP made it that way. I wonder if I were to make it the Illuminati vs the Justice Society or A better pick of the JLA, how would they fare? Not good at all.
speaking of red tornado, this is off subject, but have you read JSA? i thinkk thats what it is, its the one where a recent issue had Him on the cover (i think).
im trying to read more mainstream DC, but last time i tried i must have been reading all the dumb comics or something.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
HOw is MM losing when he's more versatile than BB? He's def as strong. And he's got enough powers to much with him. Besides this Set up isn't even fair. Even tho I think Zatanna can take out strange as he could take her out. No one is thinkign like that. It needs to be totally redone with a better match up. Cuz strange's power is all over the place.
The manhunter is not more versatile than black bolt is- he may be a shapeshifter but has no external matter manipulation feats to speak of. At best it's a draw, at worst BB turns him into a pile of bricks during a fight. BB's scream is also quite possibly the most ridiculously overpowered attack in the history of comics (ignoring cosmic level beings of course) and the manhunter really doesn't have any means of surviving it if BB was serious about killing him.
Strange's power levels are certainly all over the place, but that may have something to do with the fact that he's sorcerer surpreme of his entire universe. He has some low feats, but at best he's throwing down with abstract beings who would make short work of ANY incarnation of the JLA.
Can someone explain to me Strange's sixth sense that halts speed-blitzes against him? Even someone at Superman speeds? I don't understand how he could do it.
It's due to a couple of things, really. As shown above, Strange DOES have an early warning sixth sense that allows him to put up defenses against even beings as fast as the surfer. That feat is particularly significant as he had no reason to believe surfer would be trying to kill him, there.
also: even the flash doesn't instantaneously start out at light speed- a speedblitz requires at minimum time to think to select a target and plan of action in a no prep situation BEFORE ramping up to supersonic speeds. In this particular situation, having multiple targets presenting a threat gives the defender the advantage.
Lastly, strange has auto shields that are operational ALL the time. They're never really "down" giving him a chance to survive an attack should someone get the drop on him. The strength varies from writer to writer, but it's definitely substantial.
Originally posted by Space M ummy
The manhunter is not more versatile than black bolt is- he may be a shapeshifter but has no external matter manipulation feats to speak of. At best it's a draw, at worst BB turns him into a pile of bricks during a fight. BB's scream is also quite possibly the most ridiculously overpowered attack in the history of comics (ignoring cosmic level beings of course) and the manhunter really doesn't have any means of surviving it if BB was serious about killing him.Strange's power levels are certainly all over the place, but that may have something to do with the fact that he's sorcerer surpreme of his entire universe. He has some low feats, but at best he's throwing down with abstract beings who would make short work of ANY incarnation of the JLA.
It's due to a couple of things, really. As shown above, Strange DOES have an early warning sixth sense that allows him to put up defenses against even beings as fast as the surfer. That feat is particularly significant as he had no reason to believe surfer would be trying to kill him, there.
also: even the flash doesn't instantaneously start out at light speed- a speedblitz requires at minimum time to think to select a target and plan of action in a no prep situation BEFORE ramping up to supersonic speeds. In this particular situation, having multiple targets presenting a threat gives the defender the advantage.
Lastly, strange has auto shields that are operational ALL the time. They're never really "down" giving him a chance to survive an attack should someone get the drop on him. The strength varies from writer to writer, but it's definitely substantial.
Prof X and MM go Wheel to Toe on the Astral plane, where I believe Prof X has a major advantage.
Doctor Strange or Iron Man put a forcefield around Zatannas mouth or something. Or just Speedblitz her to holy hell.
Doc and Ironman usually have shields up, no Speedblitz.
Black Bolt screams the rest of the team out of the match. John is left, with them all on John, he gets raped.
Originally posted by Space M ummy
It's due to a couple of things, really. As shown above, Strange DOES have an early warning sixth sense that allows him to put up defenses against even beings as fast as the surfer. That feat is particularly significant as he had no reason to believe surfer would be trying to kill him, there.also: even the flash doesn't instantaneously start out at light speed- a speedblitz requires at minimum time to think to select a target and plan of action in a no prep situation BEFORE ramping up to supersonic speeds. In this particular situation, having multiple targets presenting a threat gives the defender the advantage.
Lastly, strange has auto shields that are operational ALL the time. They're never really "down" giving him a chance to survive an attack should someone get the drop on him. The strength varies from writer to writer, but it's definitely substantial.
Okay. That's all I wanted to know. Thanks.
About the Flash though, it's hard to pinpoint something like that with him. His mind and thought-process moves at or faster than light speeds all the time, especially in combat. If he were in this match, the JLA would win with just Flash alone.
Mention of time stopping keeps being brought up as well as telepathy attacks. None of those are helping their teams to vicotry here. NONE. MM > Prof.X in telepathy and Zatanna > MM and GL in telepathy. With use of the Eye, Strange > Prof in telepathy as well so basically it would be Zatanna's telepathy resistace against Strange's. They cancel eachother out. If Zee stops Strange, Strange most likely isnt getting out of it until the spell is removed and vise versa. Even if they are able to break it, it would take panels if in an actual comic, so les stop with all the time stopping here. JLA has 2 people who can travel back in time. Its not a likely tactic in this fight from EITHER side.
Long Pig and I have been in debate about Strange's autoshields before in the past. Hes stated and shows they are always up and ive stated and shown they arent. They are much like a GL's autoshields. Very inconsistant, but can very well happen. Zatanna also has shields that she can put up. This fight is basically "Who can get what off first?" Plain and simple. In a normal fight Strange and Zee are gonna exchange spells back and forth for a bit. Its almost a given. Prof.X is useless as well as Batman, Namor, Ironman imo and Reed.
Blackbolt CAN be a problem as well. I hear hes adept at matter manipulation as well. Is this true?
Originally posted by jrodslamBlackbolt CAN be a problem as well. I hear hes adept at matter manipulation as well. Is this true?
Yes, Blackbolts matter manipulation is extremely Adept. Closing several blackholes, transmutateing an army into stone, reverting a superpowered solar flare from strikeing earth, thinning out the oxygen in earths atmosphere & parting a sea in half are some of his feats. He definately has more, though. His energy projection is rediculous as well. Infact, Blackbolts energy projection/manipulation is just as rediculous as his scream, his scream is just the iceing on the cake.
Originally posted by Space M ummyHe cannot have any prior warning regardless of his sixth sense, that is prep.
It's due to a couple of things, really. As shown above, Strange DOES have an early warning sixth sense that allows him to put up defenses against even beings as fast as the surfer. That feat is particularly significant as he had no reason to believe surfer would be trying to kill him, there.
In the Surfer scan it only mentions supersonic speed. Strange does have some time to prep in that scan, as apparently he has time to think and talk.
With no prep, the only thing taking attacks is the autoshields, not the Seraphimic Shields.
Originally posted by Space M ummySun to Earth in a minute, superhuman thought speed. Uh.. Strange thinks too, at a human rate ordinarily afaik.
also: even the flash doesn't instantaneously start out at light speed- a speedblitz requires at minimum time to think to select a target and plan of action in a no prep situation BEFORE ramping up to supersonic speeds. In this particular situation, having multiple targets presenting a threat gives the defender the advantage.
Originally posted by Space M ummy
Lastly, strange has auto shields that are operational ALL the time. They're never really "down" giving him a chance to survive an attack should someone get the drop on him. The strength varies from writer to writer, but it's definitely substantial.
Originally posted by MadvillainThe autoshields have never been shown taking a barrage of multiple attacks again afaik. And when they have been shown to take single attacks Strange has still usually been injured or damaged in some way. How many punches can Superman throw in even a millisecond?
I was about to say that. He has indeed taken on Moondragon with the mind gem, so telepathy won't work here, and neither will a speedblitz. He's taken full punches from Juggernaut; a testament to the durability of his auto-shields.Seriously time is stopped, JLA gets obliterated. Its fairly simple.
