Assuming Cyclops doesn't take the easy way out and just walk through the jungle with his visor off I'll give this to Frank 6/10. His experience in Vietnam gives him the edge here. Frank we'll be going for the kill and he'll be laying mines and claymores all through the jungle as he passes. Oh and in H2H Punisher is superior.
Originally posted by Soljer
Hand to hand, I could see people arguing.Tactician? Strategist?
Hell.
No.
That's a curbstomp in Scott's favor.
i am biased i'll admit, but hells yeah...
even fury said scott was genius level when it comes to tactical thinking...
h2h scott is a decent (if underrated) fighter, and he's younger and more likely in better shape than frank imo...
Originally posted by pr1983
i am biased i'll admit, but hells yeah...even fury said scott was genius level when it comes to tactical thinking...
Yeah ok what tactical feats does he have that make him a genuis. Obvoulsy being the leader of X men and X Factor you have to be smart but whats he done that makes him better than Punisher.
Originally posted by pr1983
h2h scott is a decent (if underrated) fighter, and he's younger and more likely in better shape than frank imo...
I dont really think that matters in the comicbooks. 🙄
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Yeah ok what tactical feats does he have that make him a genuis. Obvoulsy being the leader of X men and X Factor you have to be smart but whats he done that makes him better than Punisher.
you're kidding... you think it was wolverine's rage or colossus' strength that made sure that the team succeeded against the apocalypses, the magneto's and the sinister's of the world more often than not?
even the latest arc in astonishing showed that his tactical thinking is pretty damn impressive...
I dont really think that matters in the comicbooks. 🙄
this isnt a comic though, its a forum battle...
Originally posted by pr1983
you're kidding... you think it was wolverine's rage or colossus' strength that made sure that the team succeeded against the apocalypses, the magneto's and the sinister's of the world more often than not?even the latest arc in astonishing showed that his tactical thinking is pretty damn impressive...
this isnt a comic though, its a forum battle...
The latest Astonishing = complete Cyke-wankery.
Not that he doesn't deserve it.
Originally posted by pr1983
you're kidding... you think it was wolverine's rage or colossus' strength that made sure that the team succeeded against the apocalypses, the magneto's and the sinister's of the world more often than not?.even the latest arc in astonishing showed that his tactical thinking is pretty damn impressive...
this isnt a comic though, its a forum battle...
Er is that what I said why are you jumping the gun? I never said that Cyclops was dumb and stated he has to be good at strategy to lead them.....gosh. Im just asking for examples that put him above Punisher. 😐
Originally posted by pr1983this isnt a comic though, its a forum battle...
Yeah so Cyclops has been around since the 60s (I think), so that makes him old as well? Hell shouldnt Franklin Richards be an adult by now, so if we have any vs batlles with Franklin will make him an adult shall we?
Originally posted by Soljer
The latest Astonishing = complete Cyke-wankery.Not that he doesn't deserve it.
not out of character though... 😛
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Er is that what I said why are you jumping the gun? I never said that Cyclops was dumb and stated he has to be good at strategy to lead them.....gosh. Im just asking for examples that put him above Punisher. 😐
i'm not jumping the gun, sorry if it seemed that way...
there are examples in the respect thread...
Ok but bare in mind I was reading X-Factor for years and Classic X-men and quite frankly I dont remember him doing anything that puts him above Punisher.
my above mentioned scenario holds.
~Sado
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Ok but bare in mind I was reading X-Factor for years and Classic X-men and quite frankly I dont remember him doing anything that puts him above Punisher.
ive actually only gotten to read alot of the older x-factor stuff recently, so i was going on uncanny and v2... is there examples of anything in particular that you're looking for? h2h skills? accuracy? tactical thinking?
i could probably get the pics for you...
even in x-factor though, he did lead the team even with all the madelyne stuff going on, that took a hell of alot of character, and he still led them well, even with all his doubts and problems...
Originally posted by Sado22
ditto. Scott is a great leader but he isn't as experienced as Frank Castle when it comes to warfare. also Frank has come up traps in matter of mintues on several occassions. In the following volume to "welcome back frank" he took on an army of russian mafia with an M60 and kitchen utensils.my above mentioned scenario holds.
~Sado
You remember the time he was trapped in a cell and Jigsaw tried to gas him and Frank found a way to get out and protect himself from the nerve gas? 👆
Originally posted by pr1983
ive actually only gotten to read alot of the older x-factor stuff recently, so i was going on uncanny and v2... is there examples of anything in particular that you're looking for? h2h skills? accuracy? tactical thinking?i could probably get the pics for you...
Well im just thinking I havent really seen him doing genuis level stratgey to be quite frank. As stated above Frank escaped from a cel that was being pumped with nerve gas, he didnt have a gas mask but still found a way to protect himself and get out.
Originally posted by pr1983
even in x-factor though, he did lead the team even with all the madelyne stuff going on, that took a hell of alot of character, and he still led them well, even with all his doubts and problems...
Thats the thing. Ive sen strength of character from him but nothing really impressive strategy wise. *shrug*
Originally posted by Sado22
Cyclops: *random optic blasts*
The Punisher (several kilometers away with sniper rifle): *bang*Cyclops dead.
~Sado
i thought i saw someone say they were in a jungle... if thats true, how will frank get a clear shot through that much foliage?
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
You remember the time he was trapped in a cell and Jigsaw tried to gas him and Frank found a way to get out and protect himself from the nerve gas? 👆
ah, i generally only read punisher MAX, or was that in an issue i'd missed?
Well im just thinking I havent really seen him doing genuis level stratgey to be quite frank. As stated above Frank escaped from a cel that was being pumped with nerve gas, he didnt have a gas mask but still found a way to protect himself and get out.
that is impressive, but i wouldnt call that tactical thinking... more mcgyver esque resourcefulness, which is something frank has over scott in spades imo...
Thats the thing. Ive sen strength of character from him but nothing really impressive strategy wise. *shrug*
ah, i see what you mean... i'll look in the respect thread, but if i cant find anything good enough i'll go back through my comics...
in all honesty though, scott (as much as xavier, if not moreso), managed to mould a team of mutants into becoming more than the sum of their parts, and i'll give any man credit who manages to turn jubilee into an effective battlefield component (sorry cresh 😛)
Originally posted by pr1983
i thought i saw someone say they were in a jungle... if thats true, how will frank get a clear shot through that much foliage?
Well he did fight in Vietnam. He is well versed in that type of combat. Im sure Scott has trained in different scenerios in the danger room but will not be that experienced in that specific type of envinronment.
Originally posted by pr1983
ah, i generally only read punisher MAX, or was that in an issue i'd missed?
Man....thats way back in the 80s.
Originally posted by pr1983
that is impressive, but i wouldnt call that tactical thinking... more mcgyver esque resourcefulness, which is something frank has over scott in spades imo...
Well ok another one is being able to predict where a sniper would be and dodge his bullet, and thats without radarsense. Theres also him using prep to beat Spiderman on two ocassions.
Originally posted by pr1983
ah, i see what you mean... i'll look in the respect thread, but if i cant find anything good enough i'll go back through my comics...in all honesty though, scott (as much as xavier, if not moreso), managed to mould a team of mutants into becoming more than the sum of their parts, and i'll give any man credit who manages to turn jubilee into an effective battlefield component (sorry cresh 😛)
Well yeah I mean lets put it this way he cant be crap, but ive never really seen anything really impressive. Hell let me give you another example of what im talking about. Cap managed to also escape from restraints that were designed to hold Skrull shapeshifters, and that was without his shield and no powers....ok I know were not talking about Cap but you see what im getting at
i thought i saw someone say they were in a jungle... if thats true, how will frank get a clear shot through that much foliage?
ah, i generally only read punisher MAX, or was that in an issue i'd missed?
also scott being the leader of a good team isn't a feat. nor does it give him a one up on Frank. and as far as leadership goes, Frank was the leader of the most successful platoon in nam that had the most minimal fatalities until their last year. he managed to do it despite the incompetent majors and generals in his team. heck, his team consisted of ALL rookies. they all died in the end but it wasnt frank's fault. the whole army base was attacked...not just the platoon.
leading bunch of teenage rookies into battle and surviving for many years>>leading powerful mutants who are heroes and have access to state of the art weaponry.
~Sado