Ebonics

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
I've noticed the use of ebonics among Whites is spoken when wanting to sound "cool" and or humorous or not to be taken to seriously. Their total misuse of it is funny as hell. And the other thing i notice is that Whites use Ebonic terms that were in vogue like years ago. Like i can't count how many times i've heard the word "bling-bling" and "wassaaap!" and "you da man!" come from Whites in 2006, lol. Some funny sh*t.

"Bling Bling", "You Da Man", and "Wassssup" were exaggerated cathclines, not real ebonics. I dunno anyone that said the following in a serious manner, Except for the later which was Martin Lawrence catchline.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Sigh, Again, not all individuals use ebonics use it as a primary method of speech. It's only ignorant if you do, if you speak it on your own time, no problem. And your sorta right, ebonics mainly developed because of the hip hop sub-culture, most of the terms used in ebonics were coined by "Emcee's".

What makes a language legitimate, aren't languages formed by cultures or sub-cultures? Hell, many languages spring forth from other languages, isn't english, spainish, and others derived from latin?

It isn't a language because you have an elitist view on it, so, far I have not heard one person give a legit reason as to why ebonics is not a ethnolect. Most of the excuse is "It's ignorance" or "It's ignorant jargon". This is the same elitist attitude that had to be fought to make certain creole dialects into official languages.

EDIT:Ebonics is not slang bcause a slang refers to a relatively small set of vocabulary items which are ephemeral they gain and lose currency rapidly, go in and out of style. Slang does not have a grammar or rules of pronunciation; it is not a dialect or a language.

The word "YO" Has been around for a quater of a century now.

Sigh, I never said they do. But when you're talking to a potential boss you shouldn't address him like he's one of your homies.

Elitist? I'm far from elitist. But I have little respect for any individual or group that chooses to sound ignorant. And people who indulge in the use of ebonics, black or white, when presenting themselves for consideration, in any number of situations, to the rest of the world are ignornat and disrespectful. They're disrespectful of the rest of the speaking world who took the time to learn how to express themselves.

I'm sure your knowledge of the history of progressive ebonics is impressive and in this day and age I'm sure you could find a college that would teach you a class in it or award you a doctorate in ebonics.

And you can argue that ebonics isn't a bastardization of a language and doesn't count as slang, but as you said: "Slang doesn't have grammer or rules of pronunciation" but neither does this made up language where the rules of pronunciation are tossed out every few years.

Originally posted by Kinneary
I love how blacks can't get jobs.

And I love how Whites can't dance, lol.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Sigh, I never said they do. But when you're talking to a potential boss you shouldn't address him like he's one of your homies.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic

Elitist? I'm far from elitist. But I have little respect for any individual or group that chooses to sound ignorant.

That is elitist, what right do you have to decide what is and what's not "Ignorant". Infact, you called ebonics a slang, when it wasn't, that's ignorant.Your critiquing something you seem to have zero knowledge on, that is ignorant.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic

And people who indulge in the use of ebonics, black or white, when presenting themselves for consideration, in any number of situations, to the rest of the world are ignornat and disrespectful. They're disrespectful of the rest of the speaking world who took the time to learn how to express themselves.

Based on what, again, I haven't heard one valid reason against ebonics, just elitist opinions.

[

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic

And you can argue that ebonics isn't a bastardization of a language and doesn't count as slang, but as you said: "Slang doesn't have grammer or rules of pronunciation" but neither does this made up language where the rules of pronunciation are tossed out every few years.

Um, to bad ebonics generally does,have set grammer. Also, where do you hear ebonics or study it from. Stupid music videos where words are made up, and peole don't even use except dumb "wanna be gangsta'". Are you aware certain words are made up by entertainers as catch phrases, no you weren't.

Here:

In African-American Vernacular English you may omit forms of the copular verb 'be' provided all of the following conditions are met.

It must not be accented. You never leave 'is' out of something like 'There already is one!'
It mustn't end the sentence. You never say, 'I don't know what it is' without the 'is'.
It mustn't begin the sentence. You never leave out the 'is' in a question like 'Is dat right?'
It mustn't be an infinitive. You never leave out 'be' in something like 'You got to be strong' or an imperative like 'Be careful', or in one of those habitual aspect cases like 'He be laughin'.'
It mustn't be in the past tense. You never leave out 'was' or 'were'.
It mustn't be negated. You never leave out 'ain't' from something like 'He ain't no fool.'
It mustn't be first person singular. You never leave out the 'am' of sentences like 'I'm yo' main man.'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_American_Vernacular_English

Say Ashtar do you consider 1337 to be slang or a constructed language?

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Say Ashtar do you consider 1337 to be slang or a constructed language?

I dunno much about 1337, since I don't chat that much. So, I'm the wrong guy to ask.

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
Excuse her, she's mildly cretinous.

Well it (LEET) is generally considered to be slang (and usually refered to as such) even though it has various rules governing it.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Well its generally considered to be slang (and usually refered to as such) even though it has various rules governing it.

Does 1337 have different pronouncation and grammar from english, and does 1337 have words that originate from another language?

suffixes have different spellings and pronunciations
spelling is morphic
words are borrowed from many sources
grammer is variable

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leet

Wikipedia calls it a sociolect, so, I doubt you need me to comment on it.

What I wanted to know was do you think L33T is on the same linguistic level as ebonics

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
What I wanted to know was do you think L33T is on the same linguistic level as ebonics

What do you mean by linguistic level, I don't understand your question. Do languages have levels, becuase I'm not Linguist.

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
Any confirmation that starts 'upon looking it up (in Wikipedia)' is on shaky ground for two reasons.

It is a dialect.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Why are we talking about jobs now, I already addreesed that point for a while now.

That is elitist, what right do you have to decide what is and what's not "Ignorant". Infact, you called ebonics a slang, when it wasn't, that's ignorant.Your critiquing something you seem to have zero knowledge on, that is ignorant.

Based on what, again, I haven't heard one valid reason against ebonics, just elitist opinions.

[

Um, to bad ebonics generally does,have set grammer. Also, where do you hear ebonics or study it from. Stupid music videos where words are made up, and peole don't even use except dumb "wanna be gangsta'". Are you aware certain words are made up by entertainers as catch phrases, no you weren't.

Here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_American_Vernacular_English

Well, it's clear that you yourself are no slave to grammar or the rules governing language.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Are you aware certain words are made up by entertainers as catch phrases, no you weren't.

Catch phrases are totally different than made up words. But, if I understand what you're trying to say, yes. Yes I understand that Ebonics is a slang language made up by people who refuse to or can't take the time to learn the language that governs the world in which they live.

You call me elitists because I think it's silly that the people who primarily use this "language" are doing so because they think it is a legitimate way of expressing their cultural and racial heritage, OR posers who want to legitimize their interest in a particular music or lifestyle.

I personally think that people like yourself who (actually attempt to) defend this bastardization of the English language aren't giving themselves, or those who partake in it, enough credit. Why do these people have to be stereotypes? I like Star Trek. But at the same time I don't think that Klingon is a legitimate way to communicate. Star Trek fans can get together all they want in their mother's basement and babble at each other in Klingon with rubber foreheads glued to their face, but I think no more or less of them than I do these suburban white guys who wander around speaking in Ebonics and acting like they're from the ghetto of Detroit. I'm not saying that white guys can't like rap, but I'm saying that there's no need to become a stereotype to express your interest in it.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Well, it's clear that you yourself are no slave to grammar or the rules governing language.

Based on what, because I've actually given a valid reason versus your ranting?

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic

Catch phrases are totally different than made up words. But, if I understand what you're trying to say, yes. Yes I understand that Ebonics is a slang language made up by people who refuse to or can't take the time to learn the language that governs the world in which they live.

No, it is not, I know many people who speak perfect english and ebonics. Stop generalizing people with your Elitist western world conformist views FFS. Bottomline is you haven't given any valid reason as to why ebonics is not a dialect. If you don't like it, I don't care. Just post a reason why it's not a dialect.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic

You call me elitists because I think it's silly that the people who primarily use this "language" are doing so because they think it is a legitimate way of expressing their cultural and racial heritage, OR posers who want to legitimize their interest in a particular music or lifestyle.

That post alone just verifyed my point, stop generalizing.

1)WTF is wrong with expressing your cultural heritage?
2)Ebonics, pigin, creole, all exsist because of the social rift that was created in the past. Hell, that's how languages usually form.Because the need to communicate.

I call you an elitist, because your critquing something you have no knowledge of and calling it a bastard english. You haven't given a single valid argument so far in this post.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic

Why do these people have to be stereotypes? I like Star Trek. But at the same time I don't think that Klingon is a legitimate way to communicate.

My friend, klingon is a language created in a fictional program. it has no basis in real world history Ebonics does. So, you anology is not only weak but moot.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic

Star Trek fans can get together all they want in their mother's basement and babble at each other in Klingon with rubber foreheads glued to their face, but I think no more or less of them than I do these suburban white guys who wander around speaking in Ebonics and acting like they're from the ghetto of Detroit. I'm not saying that white guys can't like rap, but I'm saying that there's no need to become a stereotype to express your interest in it.

Ebonics predates rap by a mile, I already elabrated on how people tend to mix up stupid phrases they here in a music video with ebonics.Get out of your head that just because you hear a few words doesn't equate to knowlege of a dialect.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
What do you mean by linguistic level, I don't understand your question. Do languages have levels, becuase I'm not Linguist.

Do you consider L33T to be a language in the same way that you say Ebonics is?

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Do you consider L33T to be a language in the same way that you say Ebonics is?

But, didn't I tell you I don't know enough about L33t to draw that conclusion? I don't speak L33t, I don't really type in L33t, I don't know anything anyone who speaks l33t. So, again, I'm the wrong guy to ask. Besides, is l33t actually spoken, instead of typed?

I thought l33t was a colloquialism where a words spelling is altered and numbers have pronouncations?

Nevermind

I was trying to analyse your charges of elitism against those who call ebonics slang

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Nevermind

I was trying to analyse your charges of elitism against those who call ebonics slang

and my charges are true, I havn't heard one valid reason as to why ebonics is a slang.