Ebonics

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
I haven't argued that it's not a dialect, I've argued that it has no legitimate place in the speaking world.

The rap culture of East/West Side, Biggie Smalls vs. Tupac, 50 Cent, Nelly, Eminem, the whole gang are bringing the English language to ruin among today's youth just to sell records. It's not a 'super-cool' form of communication that separates Generation X from Y. It's a joke. Whether it's a dialect, ethnolect, sociolect, whatever, it's still a stain on the English language. Sketch comedy shows use it as a mockery now FFS. It's not legitimate, let's hope to high heavens that it never does.

What's the point of this article adam and why did you post it?

Originally posted by Adam_PoE

Originally posted by Strangelove
You know, Emp Ashtar, I'm not much of an 'eltist.' I'm from the Midwest, pretty low-key around here. But I agree with the above statement, even though I've admitted that Ebonics is a sub-dialect. It's not about elitist views.

Originally posted by Strangelove

The rap culture of East/West Side, Biggie Smalls vs. Tupac, 50 Cent, Nelly, Eminem, the whole gang are bringing the English language to ruin among today's youth just to sell records. It's not a 'super-cool' form of communication that separates Generation X from Y. It's a joke. Whether it's a dialect, ethnolect, sociolect, whatever, it's still a stain on the English language. Sketch comedy shows use it as a mockery now FFS. It's not legitimate, let's hope to high heavens that it never does.

Ebonics predates rap though, and honestly stopping ebonics or abolishing it won't do crap to stop stupid kods from doing stupid things. The media is whoring it (Like it does to everything else) and your targeting ebonics and not the morons who choose to hamper themselves by misusing it?

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
It's not a sub dialect, it's too big to be one.

Ebonics predates rap though, and honestly stopping ebonics or abolishing it won't do crap to stop stupid kods from doing stupid things. The media is whoring it (Like it does to everything else) and your targeting ebonics and not the morons who choose to hamper themselves by misusing it?

Originally posted by Strangelove
Misused Ebonics is not the cause of the moral decay of society, it's a symptom.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Fixed it for you

Originally posted by Strangelove
It is most definitely not big enough. It's only used in urban areas for the most part and sparingly in other areas, usually for mockery purposes, as I've saidI know.

When I say ebonics, I'm not just talking about urban cty lingual. Ebonics technically refers to any dialect in the united states with Western Afro roots.

Originally posted by Strangelove
What has properly used ebonics done for society?

What has saint patricks day done for society?

Ebonics is part of a demograph of society, and it has done alot for them.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Right, bringing up star trek, is a valid opinion.

No less than is bringing up Ebonics as valid.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Based on what?

Based on the fact that you excuse people who use Ebonics as a valid form of communication.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Because you don't like it, and it doesn't fit your elitist views. You've shown that quite well.

Because I don't like it? I don't like southern accents or dialect, but I dismiss tham as legitimate forms of communication.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
No, one did any of the above, the origin of ebonics again is in pidgin and other dialects that west african slaves created in order to communicate with each other. Ebonics is similar to creole because they are both based on pidgin and use west african phonology.Yeah, now a days the dialect isn't needed, but it's part of there culture, just likle christmas isn't needed, but is celebrated.

Why don't you rethink the analogy between christmas and creole. It might serve your argument better if you did. "Ebonics" is a modern bastardization of English, Creole is not. You might know that, or at least figure it out, if you read what the hell I was saying in my last half-dozen posts.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Again, your just an elitist, that forcing your narrow minded conforist ways down peoples throat. You keep calling ebonics ignorance, when you don't know squat about it's origin. Then you use a weak analogy, and compare it to klingon.

Once again, you can call me an elitist all you want. The difference is that you are willfully ignorant enough to think I'm insulted by it. I'm not. I know the difference between right and stupid.

I have no doubt that ebonics is just as expressive as is any other language. But I didn't make it up to sell records or a ghetto lifestyle.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Weak ass analogy, klingon to my knowledge is not based on any language.It's phonology, morphology, and grammar aren't based or have roots in shit excpet rodenberry's brain. It's not part of anything but the trekkie subculture.

The fact that you argue the validity of klingon with this much effort simply reveales how ignorant you are about real languages. I compared them as a matter of illustration, you continue to compare them on a basis of legitimate relevance.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
How is it seperate but, equal. So, celeberating your heritage is segrating yourself now?!

Seperate but, equal is an issue because you entertain it's relevence. You think that people who operate in a world governed by the english language should be given an equal consideration as those who speak a willfully bastardized version of it. Celebrating your heritage based on its independace from the heritage it now shares with the first is just ignorant. I can't remember the last time I saw a black guy chopping at wheat or gathering crops. Don't hand me "cultural heritage" as though it has some basis on historical indulgence or annimosity.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Of course your not going to here about it from africans, eboics, pidgin, creol were all crafted by afro-americans,FFS.

Way to miss the point.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
I base my argument because you obviously don't know jack abour ebonics, yet, claim it's bastardized english. So, far with no proof and nothing but your own narrow minded perspective.

Yeah, but I don't know "jack" about ebonics becuse I didn't embrace the dividing nature of my cultural heritage. If I did, I'd still be speaking German. But, I got over it. I understand what it takes to acheive some measure of success in the country in which I live. If you disagree with that notion you're free to go back to whatever country speaks ebonics. Which ever country that is that you pull out of your ass to suit your argument....since no country speaks such a basdardized version of english, except America.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
What has saint patricks day done for society?

Ebonics is part of a demograph of society, and it has done alot for them.

All I could see it doing for the demographic you mention is a way to communicate. Which they already have. It's called English.

Originally posted by Strangelove
Such as?

All I could see it doing for the demographic you mention is a way to communicate. Which they already have. It's called English.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Of course they have english [B]NOW, prior to that they weren't even allowed to speak english. this dialect helped them communicate with each other, since this demograph could not understand each other. It helped the understand eachother, and it is part of their culture. [/B]

The point of this thread and what I, Capt_Fantastic and most of the others are talking about is Ebonics in it's current incarnation. No one's being oppressed, as much as blacks would like to think so. It's, as I said, a symptom of the decay of society as we know it, not the society of over 150 years ago.

Originally posted by Strangelove

The point of this thread and what I, Capt_Fantastic and most of the others are talking about is Ebonics in it's current incarnation. No one's being oppressed, as much as blacks would like to think so. It's, as I said, a symptom of the decay of society as we know it, not the society of over 150 years ago.

EDIT: I agree, english is the countries official language. And everyone should learn how to speak whilst living here. But, it should also be okay for ebonics to exsist. Culture may not be important to you, but to many of those that are of West African descent like me it matters alot.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
I never said anything about blacks being supressed nowadays. I said, ebonics is part of there culture and they have every right to speak it. Screw how rappers use ebonics, the only reason why they are even on tv is because people want to see them. If that weren't the case, why would "Commercialized Crap" be so mainstream?

EDIT: I agree, english is the countries official language. And everyone should learn how to speak whilst living here. But, it should also be okay fro ebonics to exsist. Culture may not be important to you, but to many of does of west african descent like me it matters alot.

Originally posted by Strangelove
I'm not trying to complain about that, sorry. But the original AAVE came out of hardship and oppression and the youth of today are exploiting the history and culture of it to emulate those hypocritical SOBs in the rap culture.

And thanks to the media all of this is possible.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
EDIT: I agree, english is the countries official language. And everyone should learn how to speak whilst living here. But, it should also be okay for ebonics to exsist. Culture may not be important to you, but to many of those that are of West African descent like me it matters alot.

alright, I'm done with my rant now

Originally posted by Strangelove
English has only been the 'official' language of America for a few months. And I'm pissed off about that 😒 It was a move by the ultra-'nationalist' Republicans after all of the Hispanic immigration. I'd rather us be a nation without an official language, to reflect our heritage as a nation of immigrants 😒

alright, I'm done with my rant now

Talk about irony, I disagree with that, I actually belive english should be our official language. There is no way to accomodate to all the languages of immigrants, and it would be much more convineint.
Yes, we are a hetreogenious society, but america needs something to unite people not divide it.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Talk about irony, I disagree with that, I actually belive english should be our official language. There is no way to accomodate to all the languages of immigrants, and it would be much more convineint.
Yes, we are a hetreogenious society, but america needs something to unite people not divide it.

I'm a political science major 😛

While we're on the subject, 'American English' itself is ****ing annoying.