Classic Beyonder VS Full Power Spectre

Okay, this is a very intriguing thread. But, can anyone define for clarification's sake what Spectre at full power would be? I assume that would be fully omiscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent.

Apparently, consensus claims that according to the scan, this is Spectre with just full omniscience.

If the thread maker's intention was so that Spectre has full power of all 3 traits, and for intensive purposes is thus basically God, or perhaps better said God has become one with him, then Beyonder goes down, yes? I mean, no one can defeat God.

Now, if Pre-retconned Beyonder apparently possesses all 3 of these same characteristics, then we have a draw. Right?

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Spectre becomes one with Creation, making him more powerful than he has ever been before. He is connected with all that exists.

[b]Omniversal telepathy is not the same thing as becoming one with all creation.

Omniversal Telepathy < Becoming One With All That Is

Get it GS ?

Spectre did not just SEE ALL...he BECAME ALL.....[/B]

With omniscience you become all, you experience all, you feel all.

Spectre talked of being one with all, of feeling all, of experiencing creation. He said nothing of being able to wield such power.

Genis Vell had omniversal telepathy. Omniscience doesnt equal omnipotence.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
There is no higher power than being the most powerful thing in existance for a one time being.

Well DUH! 😱 😂

Its just a shame that was a depiction of omniscience. Show us how Spectre could actually use all the power of creation for his personal use as opposed to just being one with creation and being attuned to it. 🙂

Originally posted by Lord Urizen

Good thing the narration about Classic Beyonder does not contradict the on-panel feats 😉

You [b]DO remember that Classic Beyonder was only accessing a tiny fragment of his power throughout the entire Secret Wars saga, right ? 😬

You also remember how he played with the Marvel Multiverse (which was all that existed at the time) like a toy, at low power, and still had so much left over it was rediculous.....[/B]

Show us one example where Beyonder displayed power a million times greater than all that exists in the multiverse as opposed to JUST showing us he was greater than the beings who actually faced him.

Theres not a single feat that illustrates what that caption would have us believe.

Beyonder used a large amount of his power to kill Death and didnt have enough left to bring her back without someone volunteering to take Deaths place and yet he has a million times the power of the multiverse?

Beyonder had his power taken from him by Doom who had access to Galactus the planet eaters (and at most potential universe destroyer) tech for all of 5 mins before he was skilled enough to usurp the Beyonders power leaving him powerless and yet he has power a million times that of the multiverse?

Beyonder had a million times the power of the multiverse combined (apparently) and yet he could still be affected by the power of the multiversal M'kraan crystal?

Originally posted by Lord Urizen

[b]Spectre scan:

Combining oneself with all that exists is surely a display of power.....

Beyonder scan:

Attaining full access to your infinite power is surely a display of power

[/B]

Glowing with energy is not a display of power. That makes for a pretty picture. To judge how Beyonder would fare against others you go by how his power has been applied against things. What has he done in battle? What has he created? What has he destroyed? NOT a picture of Beyonder glowing and supposedly having such a high level of power. Wheres the reference point to verify that comment? What did he apply his power to after that to show us that he indeed did have a million times the power of the multiverse?

Theres a difference between MERELY being stronger in a fight against the abstracts and having a million times the power of their multiverse combined. Beyonder more or less showed the former, the latter was not only NOT proven on panel, but as ive illustrated was often contradicted.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen

That's a good idea....haven't you done the same for [b]Pheonix ? [/B]

Nope. My comments about Phoenixes power are based on actual performed feats, NOT JUST a caption.

Thats enough for now. Very busy this week. I'll counter your reposts with my next visit. 🙂

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Beyonder had his power taken from him by Doom who had access to Galactus the planet eaters (and at most potential universe destroyer) tech for all of 5 mins before he was skilled enough to usurp the Beyonders power leaving him powerless and yet he has power a million times that of the multiverse?

Originally posted by Galan007
To be fair, Beyonder allowed Doom to take his powers.

If thats the truth then show the scan which actually states the point.

Oh no hes here!!!! 😱

Make way for the reposts!!! 😂

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Thats enough for now. Very busy this week. I'll counter your reposts with my next visit. 🙂

Be back probably Sunday/Monday time. Make the most of my absence. 🙂

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
With omniscience you become all, you experience all, you feel all.

This is the Flaw of your argument..Thank you for revealing the problem....

Omniscience is simply the ability to SEE, FEEL , and KNOW ALL...nothing more, nothing less. Omniscience is NOT to become one with all. Your definition is incorrect.👇

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omniscience

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/omniscient

http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_/omniscience.html

Do yourself a favor and research the defintion of omniscience, thank you

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Spectre talked of being one with all, of feeling all, of experiencing creation. He said nothing of being able to wield such power.

Becoming on with all is Omnipotence. When you become one with all that is, you ARE ALL THAT IS, therefore you can CONTROL ALL THAT IS....

By definition Omnipotence is the ability to DO ALL. However, one method of becoming Omnipotent is to BECOME All, so that control is INTERNAL as opposed to external....

It's been done before by Thanos w Cosmic Cube, and HOTU.....

Get it ? 😉

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Genis Vell had omniversal telepathy. Omniscience doesnt equal omnipotence.

I agree with you....Omniscience is not omnipotence. What's your point ? Spectre reached omnipotence AND omniscience as I proved above....

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Its just a shame that was a depiction of omniscience. Show us how Spectre could actually use all the power of creation for his personal use as opposed to just being one with creation and being attuned to it. 🙂

The depiction was omnipotence because he became one with all....

You earlier tried to argue that this is Omniscience, which it is NOT

I already provided you with the CORRECT defintion of Omniscience, so please drop your argument, it is false 👇

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Show us one example where Beyonder displayed power a million times greater than all that exists in the multiverse as opposed to JUST showing us he was greater than the beings who actually faced him.

He didn't have to display this, when it was clearly stated by the Comic book Writer HIMSELF

Classic Beyonder was ALSO STATED to have been acting on a smallFRACTION OF HIS POWER

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Theres not a single feat that illustrates what that caption would have us believe. /B]

Classic Beyonder was ALSO STATED to have been acting on a small FRACTION OF HIS POWER

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Beyonder used a large amount of his power to kill Death and didnt have enough left to bring her back without someone volunteering to take Deaths place and yet he has a million times the power of the multiverse?

Classic Beyonder was ALSO STATED to have been acting on a small FRACTION OF HIS POWER

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Beyonder had his power taken from him by Doom who had access to Galactus the planet eaters (and at most potential universe destroyer) tech for all of 5 mins before he was skilled enough to usurp the Beyonders power leaving him powerless and yet he has power a million times that of the multiverse?

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Beyonder had a million times the power of the multiverse combined (apparently) and yet he could still be affected by the power of the multiversal M'kraan crystal?

Classic Beyonder was ALSO STATED to have been acting on a small FRACTION OF HIS POWER

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Glowing with energy is not a display of power. That makes for a pretty picture. To judge how Beyonder would fare against others you go by how his power has been applied against things. What has he done in battle? What has he created? What has he destroyed? NOT a picture of Beyonder glowing and supposedly having such a high level of power. Wheres the reference point to verify that comment? What did he apply his power to after that to show us that he indeed did have a million times the power of the multiverse?

If you actually READ Secret Wars, or atleast Mr. Master's Beyonder Respect Thread, you'd have a clue what you were ranting about.....

And again:

Classic Beyonder was ALSO STATED to have been acting on a FRACTION OF HIS POWER

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Theres a difference between MERELY being stronger in a fight against the abstracts and having a million times the power of their multiverse combined. Beyonder more or less showed the former, the latter was not only NOT proven on panel, but as ive illustrated was often contradicted.

THE WRITER CLEARLY STATED that Classic Beyonder possessed power millions of times that of the marvel multiverse. Stan Lee himself confirmed.....that should be more than enough proof....

And ALL OF BEYONDER's FEATS were done at a TINY FRACTION OF HIS POWER as STATED BY THE WRITER...

Do you understand, or will you still argue that the Writer was incorrectabout his OWN CHARACTER ???? 🙄

You and Beta Ray Howard should hook up...you both love to challenge the writer's descriptions of thier own characters ! 😱

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Nope. My comments about Phoenixes power are based on actual performed feats, NOT [B]JUST a caption. [/B]

You rely on feats, AND narration, not to mention the HANDBOOK which the WRITERS formulated.

I find it hypocritcal of you to dismiss the NARRATION and WRITERS DESCRIPTION of Classic Beyonder, but you totally utilized narration and character description of the Pheonix.

👇

I think your just mad that Classic Beyonder pwned Pheonix in the Secret Wars saga... 😆

Originally posted by BobbyD
Okay, this is a very intriguing thread. But, can anyone define for clarification's sake what Spectre at full power would be? I assume that would be fully omiscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent.

Apparently, consensus claims that according to the scan, this is Spectre with just full omniscience.

If the thread maker's intention was so that Spectre has full power of all 3 traits, and for intensive purposes is thus basically God, or perhaps better said God has become one with him, then Beyonder goes down, yes? I mean, no one can defeat God.

Now, if Pre-retconned Beyonder apparently possesses all 3 of these same characteristics, then we have a draw. Right?

Would one you two experts (Galactic and Galan) be so kind as to respond to this, thank you.

Excuse me, that was supposed to be ^^^^ Galactic Storm and Lord Urizen.

Originally posted by BobbyD
be so kind as to respond to this, thank you.

If anyone can show me a scan of more impressive power that Spectre has obtained, then I will concede.

Originally posted by Galan007
Spectre at his best= Everything in DC, which at them most= A Multiverse:

Bobby D, let's take a good look at the scan.

Spectre became Omnipotence Not just Omniscience. Omniscience , by definition, is just the ability to SEE and KNOW ALL...that's it ! Omniscience is NOT becoming one with all, as I already PROVED in my above post (please click the links, they will provide you with the correct definitions of Omniscience)

GalacticStorm will argue that Spectre became Omniscience, not Omnipotence, he is INCORRECT....I already proved why.

If you read the scan:

Spectre says:

"Within ME the BIRTH OF STARS...THE PRIMAL EXPLOSION SPREADS OUTWARDS.I AM EVERY PARTICLE OF IT !"

"Galaxies COSMOS, UNIVERSES..FILLING EVERY PART OF ME !"

Spectre BECAME ALL there is !

Becoming ALL THERE IS grants you automatic OMNIPOTENCE AND OMNISCIENCE, because you ARE ALL THERE IS, therefore you CONTROL AND KNOW ALL THERE IS !

Watch GS try to argue that this is "just hyperbole as well 🙄 😆

Now as for your other question:

Consider that Spectre became all there is....DC's Multiverse (or Omniverse as some will attempt to argue)...so what ?

At the time of Classic Beyonder, the Marvel Multiverse was all there was. Classic Beyonder has power millions of times greater than that of the Multiverse, which was all there was

So....Spectre equalled all there is, and Classic Beyonder was millions of times more powerful than all there was....

You do the math !

Originally posted by Galan007
The scan that I posted of Spectre merging with the Source, shows that greatest amount of power Spectre has ever been shown to have had. That's why I posted it.

If anyone can show me a scan of more impressive power that Spectre has obtained, then I will concede.

That's fine, and I thank you for your efforts, Galan.

But for all intensive purposes, we can assume that he is capable of holding a lot more.

Originally posted by BobbyD
But for all intensive purposes, we can assume that he is capable of holding a lot more.

I'm just going by whats actually stated on that particular pannel.

And the scan I provided depicts Spectre with the greatest ammount of power he has ever achieved on pannel.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Bobby D, let's take a good look at the scan.

[b]Spectre BECAME ALL there is !

Becoming ALL THERE IS grants you automatic OMNIPOTENCE AND OMNISCIENCE, because you ARE ALL THERE IS, therefore you CONTROL AND KNOW ALL THERE IS !

Now as for your other question:

Consider that Spectre became all there is....DC's Multiverse (or Omniverse as some will attempt to argue)...so what ?

At the time of Classic Beyonder, the Marvel Multiverse was all there was. Classic Beyonder has power millions of times greater than that of the Multiverse, which was all there was

So....Spectre equalled all there is, and Classic Beyonder was millions of times more powerful than all there was....

You do the math ! [/B]

Couple of questions and thank for your response. 🙂

You left out omnipresent also when describing Spectre ^^.

Secondly, is not infinity = infinity?

If Spectre suddenly became all there is AND Beyonder was all there was, doesn't "All there is" = "All there was"? 😕

Originally posted by Galan007
We can assume all we want.

I'm just going by whats actually stated on that particular pannel.

And the scan I provided depicts Spectre with the greatest ammount of power he has ever achieved on pannel.

I understand...follow you.

Thanks. 🙂

Originally posted by BobbyD
Couple of questions and thank for your response. 🙂

You left out omnipresent also when describing Spectre ^^.

Secondly, is not infinity = infinity?

If Spectre suddenly became all there is AND Beyonder was all there was, doesn't "All there is" = "All there was"? 😕

Beyonder's Power= Millions of Multiverses at his best.

You do the math

Originally posted by Galan007
Spectre's Power= [b]A Multiverse at his best.

Beyonder's Power= Millions of Multiverses at his best.

You do the math [/B]

This doesn't mean anything to me though. Michael Jordan in a pool of 20 of the greatest basketball players in NBA history, is still the greatest basketball player in NBA history in a pool of 1000 of the greatest basketball players in NBA history. It is STILL Michael Jordan. To me this is semantics what you're arguing.

So what you're saying is you think Spectre at FP...having all of God's powers...omni-science/potence/presence is a lesser being than Beyonder (who has the same exact powers) because of the size of the pool.

FP omni [science/potent/presence] = FP omni [science/potent/presence]

Draw.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Oh no hes here!!!! 😱

Make way for the reposts!!! 😂

And you're here,

make way for the FABRICATION of Scans. 😘

So this is KMC Spectre in action, eh?

Lot of theories. Last time I saw him fight, he didn't blink Shazam out of existence as he should have been able to.

There shouldn't have even been a fight. 😐