Ok here are the two post I made regarding the AM. I actually posted them about a day apart, which is why I have a different stance on the AM in the first post then in the second post. (Look closely nvr....)
Originally posted by darthgoober
Ok, I've been doing some research into the whole COIE ordeal, and I've come to the conclusion that there's NO WAY, AM could win this fight. You see, as it turns out AM DIDN'T have the power of a near multi-verse. What he had was the power of a SINGLE large universe. Need proof? OK take a look...See, when one of the positive matter universes were destroyed, the anti matter universe expanded. AM didn't get all the power of the destroyed universe, his own universes power just increased. And that's what he got, the power of the Anti Matter Universe. He even says it himself, check it out...
So how much power did he get when he absorbed his universe? Well, luckily enough, that's covered earlier in the same issue...
So he has the power of 53 million worlds, with more that 2 million of them containing life. Now I'm pretty sure that Marvel has never released an exact number on the population of the multi-verse, but given that there's an infinite number of universes within it, I feel safe in saying that there are more worlds(inhabited, and uninhabited) within Marvel's multi-verse, than there is within the anti matter universe. And what does that mean? Well that means that ME has MORE power to draw from, and is therefore more powerful.
(Now to all of those that are arguing for AM absorbing Multi Eternity, I would just like to point out that he NEVER demonstrated the ability to absorb a standard universe, only an anti matter universe. Matter and anti matter cancel each other out, so if he HAD tried to absorb one of the standard universes, it would have probably destroyed him. So he WON'T be absorbing any part of ME.)
Now as for the big show down at the dawn of time, I want you to take a look at something...
Well look what AM says in the first and second panels. He used his energy to breach the Wall of Creation, and NEEDED the life energy of DC's heroes to complete the next step. So apparently, the power he absorbed, wasn't even enough to complete his plan. So even if AM got the chance to go back in time to try to destroy ME, he wouldn't have the power to do it when he got there.
Now for those of you who are bound to point out that it took the Spectre to stop AM, well I have come up with 2 possible answers as to why that was necessary.
1. At the time, the Spectre simply wasn't as powerful at the time as he is now.
2. (And this is the one I believe) It was the single BIGGEST PIS showing in comic book history. Need proof of that? Well look...Now think about that. The Spectre is backed by God, but for some reason he needs the power of some sorcerers to turn the tide? The way I figure it, DC needed someone that was more powerful than all the heroes put together for the big climactic showdown.But Kismet(DC's Eternity) hadn't been introduced yet. So who did DC have that fit that description? Spectre.
Looking at all this, I think it's safe to say, that Multi-Eternity wins this fight without to much trouble.
Originally posted by darthgoober
First of all, let me say thanks for the props everyone.Second of all, everyone who's a big DC fan, should get ready to HATE me(if you don't already), because I've discovered something that's going to PISS you off. However it will also explain how the Anti Matter Universe, was able to expand and become more powerful, while retaining it's original size(which I already covered in my last post). Just remember, I didn't come up with this stuff, I'm only pointing it out.
Now we'll start with the beginnings of the DC Multiverse(I've included the first two pages of it's origin for anybody who doesn't know it, but the important stuff doesn't start until the third scan)...
http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/1069/crisis707ks6.jpg
http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/7707/crisis708ye4.jpgThis one's a little more important, which is why you get a thumbnail for it(even though I already posted it)...
Now the reason I say that the third scan is more important, is because it shows the universes overlapping to a degree, without actually interacting. Why you ask? Because the universes that made up the DC multi-verse, weren't laid out side by side, they were kind of stacked within the same space, and were separated by vibrational wavelengths that kept them from actually interacting with each other. This is first mentioned on the first page of the first book...
See at the bottom it says that the universes were vibrating and replicating. Now I would also like to bring your attention to the part(in the same narration box), that says "what should have been one became many", because that's about to be important.
So what does all this talk about the universe fracturing and the resulting universes being separated by vibrations have to do with anything? Well I'll get to that after I show you these scans, which point out something important about the multi-verses origin...
This is from the first book. Look at what it says in the upper right hand panel. "The universe once divided into many parts...Each one different, independent, yet somehow WEAKER than the whole". What does this mean exactly? Well to put it bluntly, it means that even though DC at the time was a multiverse, it was a weak multiverse that only contained as much power as a single universe. And before anyone tries to call BS on the fact, here's the Monitor saying the same thing in the forth book...
"The universe was split apart at the dawn of time...each part WEAKER than the whole it was meant to be". He also says that the universes are separated by by vibrations and time.
When all of this is taken into account, here are my theories on the matter...
About AM's power increasing with the destruction of the positive matter universes... Well his universe obviously didn't grow outward and actually become larger(because of the dimensions given for it and because of the impossibility of an infinite number of universes being placed side by side). It would be more accurate to say that it grew in DENSITY(it's the best word I could think of to describe it). It became more real, and more like the ORIGINAL universe in overall power.
This also means(and THIS is what's really going to piss some people off), that even at the height of his power, AM wasn't even as powerful as a SINGLE intact universe(because there were still 5 universes left out to complete the whole). So not only could he not take Multi Eternity, he probably couldn't take the universal aspect of Eternity either. His power falls just shy(5 mini universes to be exact).
Before everyone starts attacking me as a "DC hater", let me just say that I've spent the past three days going over all this stuff, but there IS a chance I missed something. So if anyone has any evidence which goes against all this, feel free to bring it to the table, and I'll address it. Also, I have no idea, on how powerful DC's universe is NOW. All this stuff relates only to the power of DC during COIE. I'm not saying that Marvel's universe is STILL more powerful.
Originally posted by darthgoober
Ok here are the two post I made regarding the AM. I actually posted them about a day apart, which is why I have a different stance on the AM in the first post then in the second post. (Look closely nvr....)
After reading your assessment of things, and how someone elses universe is actually more powerful, I can't help but wonder if you aren't seeing things thru a tained lense. Multiverse is mentioned on panel and so is universe. So it would come to reason that Universe and multiverse are interchangeable. I will of course read your sumation further and deconstruct it further to see if it stands up to scrutiny
Originally posted by darthgoober
Ok here are the two post I made regarding the AM. I actually posted them about a day apart, which is why I have a different stance on the AM in the first post then in the second post. (Look closely nvr....)
OMG your entire assessment is totally based on the wrong assumtions. THE anti matter universe and the matter universe that each were guardians of are superfluous of all the infinite universes. There is only one AM universe and One matter one. These universes are bigger than all of the multiple universes and represent all that is matter or all that is am. so the entire premise of your argument is mired in the wrong assumption of what the AM and monitor represent.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
OMG your entire assessment is totally based on the wrong assumtions. THE anti matter universe and the matter universe that each were guardians of are superfluous of all the infinite universes. There is only one AM universe and One matter one. These universes are bigger than all of the multiple universes and represent all that is matter or all that is am. so the entire premise of your argument is mired in the wrong assumption of what the AM and monitor represent.
One more thing. The Am "universe" expanded every time a universe from the matter universe died. Your total summation of the events is completely off since it is called crisis of the infinite earths, and each earth was a universe. Thus implying from the title, every time a " world" is mentioned it is a universe, and the universe that the monitor says he was born to protect, is actually the multiverse,
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
One more thing. The Am "universe" expanded every time a universe from the matter universe died. Your total summation of the events is completely off since it is called crisis of the infinite earths, and each earth was a universe. Thus implying from the title, every time a " world" is mentioned it is a universe, and the universe that the monitor says he was born to protect, is actually the multiverse,
Originally posted by darthgooberEvery time a universe died, The AM's One Universe got bigger. The proof is on panel. THe AM's Antimatter universe was equal to all the positive universes. Every time one of them died, his one universe expanded. The proof is on panel. i have thus proven your entire theory to be defunct. it was well thought out. just not fully thought out.
Prove it.
One more thing, about your little summation of each universe being weaker than a "standard" universe. Where does it say that this one single unified Universe was the same as a standard " marvel" one. what is a standard universe? Since marvel also has a split multiverse? How strong was the first Universe? Could this One Universe that was split actually have been More powerful than any standard universe? It would have to be to sustain and infinite amount of "weaker" universes. Coincidently, each "weaker" universe" was still infinite. And there were an infinite number of them.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Every time a universe died, The AM's One Universe got bigger. The proof is on panel. THe AM's Antimatter universe was equal to all the positive universes. Every time one of them died, his one universe expanded. The proof is on panel. i have thus proven your entire theory to be defunct. it was well thought out. just not fully thought out.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
One more thing, about your little summation of each universe being weaker than a "standard" universe. Where does it say that this one single unified Universe was the same as a standard " marvel" one. what is a standard universe? Since marvel also has a split multiverse? How strong was the first Universe? Could this One Universe that was split actually have been More powerful than any standard universe? It would have to be to sustain and infinite amount of "weaker" universes. Coincidently, each "weaker" universe" was still infinite. And there were an infinite number of them.
