Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Ush to be honest...Rocky IV was nothing but American film propaganda. It has no sympathy as far as movie goers. It has zero value and completely a stupid message in the end that everyone saw it coming minutes before the fight ended.Rocky IV is in the same level as Red Dawn and Rambo III.
See, that is not the full message. It gives the moral of courage and the freedom to do what is right. It's message, like most Rocky films, is indeed valid.
Originally posted by Ultraman Baltan
See, that is not the full message. It gives the moral of courage and the freedom to do what is right. It's message, like most Rocky films, is indeed valid.
Oh, gee...what a way to get a message across. Asking an audience to have peace after a brutal and dangerous fight. Peace by means of fighting......what a great message.
Originally posted by Mr Parker
Like you said,its laughable and a joke that hundreds of soviets would give support to an american boxer in their own country and start rooting for him.We both know that,that Drago could not exist,that he was a superhuman and that for a Rocky movie that doesnt work when your talking about realisem and believeability.
Did any of the "Rocky" sequels EVER say they were "credible" and made for ANYTHING ELSE other than ENTERTAINMENT VALUE?
By the way, what do scientists say about "Spider-Man"? Credible? Believable? They'll tell you this.
It's a movie.
Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Ush to be honest...Rocky IV was nothing but American film propaganda. It has no sympathy as far as movie goers. It has zero value a completely and stupid message in the end that everyone saw it coming minutes before the fight ended.Rocky IV is in the same level as Red Dawn and Rambo III.
Nobody in this forum has had the notion to point out the INTENTIONAL overexaggeration of the events in the movie because of the Cold War allegory I keep slapping you people in the face with. Drago kicked his ass, and we're supposed to gather that Rocky comes out at the end saying he's not mad, encouraging the Soviets to change their ways? The only people that saw that coming were those who wrote the ****ing script. To claim otherwise isn't fair.
Sigh, where to begin?
Alot of time, many will have opinions which will be seen to most as wrong, however, the creation of Rocky 4-5 should be something that we all have in common, These movies are enough to unite even countries at war, they were long, tedious, unecessary wastes of garbage, and that's taking it lightly.
A movie can only go so far with just, "good casting", as it's strong point. I mean come on, Sly fits the part very well, that's enough. Our message won't get across, but we can pollute the space around us by typing/speaking.
Bottom point is, those last couple of movies were made for fanboys, much like a "best of" album is made by bands who really shouldn't be remembered for anything are still being released, only the hardcore will sit through such an ordeal.
Originally posted by The Core
It's a movie, anything's possible. The Cold War allegory wasn't merely suggested either, it was blatant. It was the same David vs Goliath story they used in the entire franchise. Just this time around, they used the USA vs USSR gimmick to get across political propaganda.America swaying the decision of others with logic and reason is nothing new. Like I said, the dramatic expression of Rocky telling the Soviets that everyone can change their ways, was over the top, but it was playing up a current angle. They also admired Rocky's tenacity. It's just DRAMATICS..it's part of the movie. In the end, it's not so far fetched.
Rocky told the Russkies to stop fighting, Reagan told Gorbachev to tear down the Berlin Wall.
It happened.
not, anything isnt possible in a movie. It depends on what kind of movie. In a suphero movie yes( to to tell it to that idiot sam raimi for not posting the web shooters in a comic book movie for being too unrealistic), in a rocky movie not. Rocky the first one is a very realistic movie with tons of realistic elements and characters. Second one almost the same but with some things a little unrealistic. The third one even more unrealistic. Your beloved fourth one was totally unrealistic. Stallone did get mad for the money and the sequels and destroyed the realism of the first one in each new sequel.
And about the speech. Not only it was stupid as hell( a boxer talking about the not violence) it was very simply and patriotic, so a bunch of soviet people cheering that speech was easiest the most unrealistic thing in the movie. It was for the patriotism nothing more. A lot of soviet people cheering an american boxer with a american flag, come on stallone. I didnt know that you were so a dork. This sequel is an insult to the first one.
Originally posted by Ultraman Baltan
Actually, I have seen you in 98% of all Rocky debates here.Yes? Show me them and my posts on it.
You honestly have no idea what Core is talking about. The movie isn't supposed to be realistic. Most of the Rocky films aren't realistic(only the first one, actually). Rocky represents the spirit to fight on and to never give up. Of COURSE he would win.
The first and the second one ware realistic. The sequels destroyed it, specially the fourth one.
Drago is actually possible, believe it or not. The thing is that people do not focus technology on boxing, so it doesn't work. But if they DID, then Drago is very possible. Actually, Rocky IV STILL stayed towards reality. Think about it. Like Core said, it's all about representation and the characters themselves. That's why it is the most most successful, and second most popular(one trumps them all), Rocky film out there. It gives everyone a strong sense of hope and freedom, and even has one of the most famous fight scenes in film history.
Not, i dont believe that drago could be possible because he couldnt be possible. Show me only a real boxer as drago. Show me a real boxer with almost 1 ton of strenght in one punch. And show me one boxer capable of taking several punchs like this and win the figth.
The rest of your post is simply false. This movie ISNT the second most popular in the franchise. It wasnt towards the reality in any way. And it wasnt one of the most popular fights in movie story.
If you like that movie, great for you. But dont be that blind and post those bunch of lies only for defending it.
Originally posted by The Core
Did any of the "Rocky" sequels EVER say they were "credible" and made for ANYTHING ELSE other than ENTERTAINMENT VALUE?By the way, what do scientists say about "Spider-Man"? Credible? Believable? They'll tell you this.
It's a movie.
Spiderman the movie was crap but not for the realistic thing. THis movie HAS TO BE UNREALISTIC because its a comic book. The movie was crap because the script, the acting and some other things. But the funny thing is the director sam raimi didnt want to put the web shooters because he thought that it was unrealistic.
Dont count all the movies as the same thing. Spiderman has to be unrealistic. SUperman has to be unrealistic. Batman has to be unrealistic. Star wars has to be unrealistic.
APocalypse now has to be realistic. Taxi driver has to be realistic. Ranging bull has to be realistic. First blood has to be realistic( but stallone destroyed it again in the sequels, specially in third one). Rocky has to be realistic. Its the story of a normal boxer , a looser fighting for being someone. Not about a superhero, like stallone wanted to do in the sequels.
Originally posted by Darth Vicious
I dont know about that. Between 4 & 5, 4 is a masterpiece. % was just horrendous!
No way.5 is at least realistic and believeable where 4 is totally unrealistic and not believeable at all.I compare rocky 5 to Halloween 3 season of the witch.If you dont think of Halloween 3 as a Halloween movie and forget its called Halloween and just think of it as being called Season of the witch since it has nothing to do with the first two halloween films its not too bad of a movie.It just sucks when you think of it so much as a halloween movie because it wasn't anywhere near as good as the first two films.Same thing with Rocky 5.If you forget that its called Rocky 5 and think of it as being called Tommy since Tommy Morrisons character was Tommy Gunn, then its not too bad of a film.Slow and boring at times but again much more realistic and believeable than Rocky 4. 😉
Originally posted by bakerboy
not, anything isnt possible in a movie. It depends on what kind of movie. In a suphero movie yes( to to tell it to that idiot sam raimi for not posting the web shooters in a comic book movie for being too unrealistic), in a rocky movie not. Rocky the first one is a very realistic movie with tons of realistic elements and characters. Second one almost the same but with some things a little unrealistic. The third one even more unrealistic. Your beloved fourth one was totally unrealistic. Stallone did get mad for the money and the sequels and destroyed the realism of the first one in each new sequel.And about the speech. Not only it was stupid as hell( a boxer talking about the not violence) it was very simply and patriotic, so a bunch of soviet people cheering that speech was easiest the most unrealistic thing in the movie. It was for the patriotism nothing more. A lot of soviet people cheering an american boxer with a american flag, come on stallone. I didnt know that you were so a dork. This sequel is an insult to the first one.
Rocky 4 sure is an insult to the Rocky series.Great points.But really Bakerboy its best to just ignore the insane ramblings of the core and Ultraman Baltan.They go to the most desperate insane lengths to try and justify that Rocky 4 was a good movie.See thats why I have always enjoyed debating with Dusty because unlike them,Dusty at least makes reasonable and well thought out posts in his debates when we have our discussions on disagreements about films.The core and Baltan ignore Facts like Ivander Holified himself said Rocky 4 is the most unrealistic and unbelieveable Rocky film of the Rocky series and disliked it even more so than Rocky 5 because of that and went on to say that no human being could survive that kind of punishment.they constantly ignore points and facts brought up to them like that so ignore their posts,their not worth it.talking them is like talking to a wall.
Originally posted by bakerboy
Spiderman the movie was crap but not for the realistic thing. THis movie HAS TO BE UNREALISTIC because its a comic book. The movie was crap because the script, the acting and some other things. But the funny thing is the director sam raimi didnt want to put the web shooters because he thought that it was unrealistic.Dont count all the movies as the same thing. Spiderman has to be unrealistic. SUperman has to be unrealistic. Batman has to be unrealistic. Star wars has to be unrealistic.
APocalypse now has to be realistic. Taxi driver has to be realistic. Ranging bull has to be realistic. First blood has to be realistic( but stallone destroyed it again in the sequels, specially in third one). Rocky has to be realistic. Its the story of a normal boxer , a looser fighting for being someone. Not about a superhero, like stallone wanted to do in the sequels.
Great points again Bakerboy.You've done a great job of taking them to school on this but really,dont waste your breath on them anymore.It just goes through one ear and out the other with them with their desperate attempts to try and defend the film.Like I said,talk to the people that make reasonable points like Dusty and others.