Mistress Death vs The Spectre

Originally posted by King Kandy
That's what I'm saying. Death is neither male nor female, but the Entity known as mistress Death is a M-Body fasioned in the form of a woman. It's immensly powerful, having all the powers of Death...

But Ultimatly it's a fractyl, and it can be destroyed if you pump enough energy onto it. If you destroy an M-Body, it doesn't get rid of the concept (Usualy), but Destroying that M-Body still counts as a win, since that's the incarnation that is being used.

M bodies are as strong and durable as the abstract needs it to be. As this abstract in particular has infinite power...well...you get where I'm going here.

I also disagree that destroying an m-body counts as a win- they're only containers for an abstract's power. damaging it (if even possible..I don't think it's ever actually happened) would only allow the abstract to reform it, stronger than before.

Originally posted by Space M ummy
Spectre is God's wrath but is NOT god/the presence itself. Without the full backing of the presence, he's only on par with eclipso who had the same role. He's been defeated before by beings FAR below "death itself."

Death DOES have rules it abides by- that is why strange was able to prevent death from taking him, but don't get confused. Strange is NOT capable of destroying death by a long shot.

Death is FAR above galactus. not only can Galactus be killed, but Galactus was unable to absorb the elders of the universe when death barred them from her realm. In fact, he nearly died from the attempt. Death > Galactus.

this particular discussion is actually quite fun.

I never said Spectre was God himself.... just that he's the wrath of God and when backed, has the Presence's power.

Really now? Even a completely rogue Spectre was able to leave Mr. Mxyzptlk completely powerless. Mxy>>>>MU's Death.

This thread is quite silly. In no way can Death defeat the Presence's wrath. Spectre 10/10.

Originally posted by Space M ummy
I disagree with you for a couple of reasons. There is NO evidence of an M body ever being destroyed by "pumping enough energy into it."

M bodies are as strong and durable as the abstract needs it to be. As this abstract in particular has infinite power...well...you get where I'm going here.

I also disagree that destroying an m-body counts as a win- they're only containers for an abstract's power. damaging it (if even possible..I don't think it's ever actually happened) would only allow the abstract to reform it, stronger than before.

Abstracts don't all have infinite power because some are stronger than others. In a closed system you can't get true infinity anyway you can only get virtual infinity. I.e. when you try and do calculations involving singularities everything goes infinite. This is an example of virtual infinity because the numbers are incalculable. True infinity has no number because it is infinite.

🙂

🤘

in making it "Mistress" Death it was shown that an M-Body would be used for the fight.

And By "Pumping enough energy", I mean you mearly need to be powerful enough. IG Thanos overpowered Mistress Death, death's power is by no means infinite.

so what if spectre lost to people lower then death that is cause his power fluctuates but of course if your making this thread so that his power is lower then death then its a spite thread, when we know it can go ALOT higher.

Originally posted by King Kandy
in making it "Mistress" Death it was shown that an M-Body would be used for the fight.

And By "Pumping enough energy", I mean you mearly need to be powerful enough. IG Thanos overpowered Mistress Death, death's power is by no means infinite.

I understand an M-body is being used for the fight, but what I don't think you get is that M-bodies don't have defined durability levels. you can't say "X has enough power to destroy an M-body" because there's no defined limit to how strong or durable an M-body is.

Abstracts don't all have infinite power because some are stronger than others. In a closed system you can get true infinity anyway you can only get virtual infinity. I.e. when you try and do calculations involving singularities everything goes infinite. This is an example of virtual infinity because the numbers are incalculable. True infinity has no number because it is infinite.

True, not all abstracts have infinite power- but there IS a heirarchy and Death is Top three. Tied with Eternity and Below the tribunal. Per marvel, death's power levels are "limitless" in all respects. if you have a problem with that, take it up with Joe Quesada, not me.

and please don't try to bring real world math into comic book concepts of infinity. you'll only make Mider's head hurt.

Really now? Even a completely rogue Spectre was able to leave Mr. Mxyzptlk completely powerless. Mxy>>>>MU's Death.

Until we see them go head to head, there's No evidence at all for your assertion that Mr. Mxy is "far above" MU death. MU Death has never been shown to have a limit outside of plot devices like the Infinity Gauntlet or the HOTU, both of which would totally, utterly, and completely rape Mxy.

I never said Spectre was God himself.... just that he's the wrath of God and when backed, has the Presence's power.

That's the thing- for the spectre to accomplish ANYTHING on the level of MU Death, he needs the backing of the presence to do it. ANYONE could win with the full backing of the presence! Ambush Bug, Aunt May...etc. The problem here is that then this becomes a "presence vs. death" fight.

If we're debating "the spectre" vs. Death- we're looking at Day of Vengeance Spectre going ALL OUT without calling on the power of the presence to do it- in which case he loses, as this version of spectre has no real way to fight or injure MU Death.

In any case, Spectre is as powerful as LT, who is stronger then death.

Originally posted by Space M ummy

True, not all abstracts have infinite power- but there IS a heirarchy and Death is Top three. Tied with Eternity and Below the tribunal. Per marvel, death's power levels are "limitless" in all respects. if you have a problem with that, take it up with Joe Quesada, not me.

So being below something deaths power obviously isn't infinite. Entrpy really should be above Death as in the end all things not just the living have to give in to Entropy.

🙂

🤘

Death isn't in the top three, by the way.

The Rot, Entropy, the Infinites, Entity, and Oblivion are all stronger then Death. And that's just counting beings, not artifacts.

Originally posted by King Kandy
In any case, Spectre is as powerful as LT, who is stronger then death.

Not true at all. they're two completely different beings. the LT was meant to be the arbiter between marvel's cosmics. Of his three faces, one of them REPRESENTS death, and he can only take action if ALL THREE faces are in agreement.

That being said, the LT was meant to be judge and jury of the entire marvel universe. The spectre has a role in DC but it is not a 1/1 correspondence between the two. He is meant to serve as God's wrath but his word is NOT law, as the LT's is. the LT was able to nullify the Infinity gauntlet just by SAYING SO. no fight, no nothing.

Spectre is NOT this powerful without asking the presence for help, in which case it's the PRESENCE taking action, not the spectre.

Well, in that case, Spectre has no powers AT all, since the Presence provided his powers.

And if LT is all that, how come he got stalemated by Nebular?

Originally posted by King Kandy
Well, in that case, Spectre has no powers AT all, since the Presence provided his powers.

And if LT is all that, how come he got stalemated by Nebular?

Spectre DOES have powers of his own but he has a limit to what he can do. DOV spectre was spectre acting on his own without the backing of the presence. horrendously powerful, but NOT as strong as the LT has been shown to be on his own.

Nebular? I don't know a "nebular" but I DO know a nebula who had the infinity gauntlet for a very brief time. As it's already been shown that the power of the LT exceeds the infinity gauntlet- I don't see what you're trying to prove here.

funny how in this entire thread I've yet to see any arguments as to what spectre would do to defeat death, only assertions that it's so.

SO- what exactly woud spectre do to Death? he seemed to have his hands full with a weakened shazam, and THAT Shazam was <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< MU Death.

I was assuming you were talking about Spectre Backed by the Presence.

Now that I know it is not so, I agree.

Nebular wasn't very impressive, he was pretty much a floating upper-body with a staff that could absorb Magic, and he had Magnetic Powers.

He stalemated LT.

Originally posted by Space M ummy
Until we see them go head to head, there's No evidence at all for your assertion that Mr. Mxy is "far above" MU death. MU Death has never been shown to have a limit outside of plot devices like the Infinity Gauntlet or the HOTU, both of which would totally, utterly, and completely rape Mxy.

Originally posted by Space M ummy
Spectre DOES have powers of his own but he has a limit to what he can do. DOV spectre was spectre acting on his own without the backing of the presence. horrendously powerful, but NOT as strong as the LT has been shown to be on his own.

Originally posted by juggernaut66666
Maybe because Death didn't face any of those but if she would Death would be beaten unless you put her above Eternity or LT
Have you forgot that who handled Parallax or Antimonitor
those two were far above the Lords of Chaos and Order.

the fact that you're comparing MU Death to parallax and antimonitor shows you have NO clue how powerful MU death is.

just to break it down for you-

MU Death >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Full power Antimonitor >>>>>>>>>>>>> Parallax >>>>>>>>>>>> Lords of Chaos and order.

those beings aren't even in the same league as MU Death. MU Death is as old as the universe and exists in all of them, has NO limits to it's power, has no true physical form, and thus is immortal and unkillable. As all of the beings you listed are mortal and have limits, MU Death owns them horribly.

In DOV spectre without presence backing killed almost every members of the Lords of order and chaos who themselves are cosmic beings with little effort. And another thing MXy is gerater than IG. He is multiversal remember in Emperor Joker saga prove that 99% Mxy was greater than the ALE which is an equavilent of the IG. Spectre is the judge,jury,and excutionary(spelling) of the entire DCU which includes multiples universes.AS was said in DOV if the spectre wants you dead thatn you are as good as dead
The female magician was giving CM the magical powers of every magical being in the universe inclusding those of the Phantom Stranger

Holy Shit, Antimoniter isn't that far below Death...

Originally posted by Space M ummy
the fact that you're comparing MU Death to parallax and antimonitor shows you have NO clue how powerful MU death is.

just to break it down for you-

MU Death >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Full power Antimonitor >>>>>>>>>>>>> Parallax >>>>>>>>>>>> Lords of Chaos and order.

those beings aren't even in the same league as MU Death. MU Death is as old as the universe and exists in all of them, has NO limits to it's power, has no true physical form, and thus is immortal and unkillable. As all of the beings you listed are mortal and have limits, MU Death owns them horribly.

Actually death can only be slightly younger than life. 🙂 The likes of the Runner etc are from a time before death that's why they are immortal. 🙂

MU Death you say is Universal 🙂 The Antimoniter destroys Universes.

Here's a clue 🙂.

🤘

A perfect diagonal line of smilies 🙂 Now that truly is Order out of Chaos, James Glick would be proud of me.

this tread is interesting, im glad i created it lol