Originally posted by The Sith'ari
Gideon, all you're doing is downplaying what Palpatine had done in that point in time.The fact is, he already had achieved a hell of a lot, and he had already put plans into place that could potentially achieve so much more. Also, could you post the entire paragraph with that statement please.
Don't you regularly accuse me of fellating him too much? Now, I'm downplaying him. Jeez. If it suits your purposes, it would seem. That is not the case. You have not provided why it would reference "accomplishments". Sidious was in a position of limited power and authority. His plans had not yet succeeded, and they were just beginning to be executed.
In roughly two hours and thirty minutes, I will be able to provide you with the entire paragraph.
Honestly, at that time, everything he planned, was right on schedule. Sure the plans weren't yet completed, but he even managed to fill the Jedi Council's two head member's heads with doubt of their own abilities. He was pacing himself, and rightfully so. If he had just gone in and went for the kills without doing everything he did, he would have been no different than any other Sith Lord. Everything he did, EVERYTHING, had a purpose and a positive effect and was part of the culmination of of events that led to his eventual success. To say he wasn't the most powerful Sith lord by that time is rather illogical from one standpoint...He didn't gain a significant amount of power (force, not political) between AoTC and RoTS...and he was already noted to be the most powerful as of TPM (if I'm not mistaken) so the only thing he lacked was political position. I will say though, that as smart as Sidious is, his plans were already made and set, all that was left was the execution. He had already started to get Anakin doing the things needed for his transformation; acting on his own, disobeying orders, using emotion, marrying Padme...he did alot. It's kinda like the saying, "It's the little things that count.". All the little things build up to the one erupting moment where he, by way of many others, seizes everything he wants. I'd say that's pretty impressive.
And don't try to attack/flame me for my opinions, cause i will react in kind and I don't feel it's needed. I'm being respectful and stating my opinions respectfully, maybe it's because I just got done talking to my psychiatrist today, lol...but I'm feeling...friendly and passive tonight, lol. I'm trying to cut down on the "arguing" and concentrate on the "debating"...unless otherwise called for.
No. Subjeckt, no quote exists. And, like Planet, you have yet to provide proof of the quote that I provided referencing his political achievements. His plans had not yet been succeeded. Hell, they weren't even executed. They were beginning to be brought into fruitation. But he did not achieve any significant "political accomplishments" 'til RotS, where he did away with the Jedi and replaced the Republic with the Empire. The quote I provided was made in the beginning of the AotC visual guide.
Prove that it was in reference to political achievements or consent and move on.
If you're talking strictly about political power than that was my misunderstanding...actually i just didn't want to read through 3 pages of flaming just to try to find an argument or two...but no, i was referring to him being the overall most powerful Sith lord. However, like i said, if you weer referring to just political power than I'll just withdraw myself from the debate. Although there's no proof that he didn't have the plans premeditated. I said that all he had left to do was execute, so we would just be arguing the same point...however, you seem to be in disagreeance with the fact that he did everything very methodically and it played out per plan, which overall was impressive...although he didn't achieve ultimate success til ROTS.
I wasn't flaming, Subjekt. The debate was about this quote: "The greatest master of evil ever to use Sith power." This quote was made in the Complete Visual Guide regarding Sidious. It is not referring political power, as Sidious was only Chancellor at the time - and possessed very limited powers. The war hadn't even begun yet. Sidious didn't become the greatest in terms of accomplishments 'til RotS. Likewise, though he was an outrageously skilled manipulator and political strategist - the fact that he "premeditated" on his plans is irrelevent, as Sidious's plans don't always work out as planned. Dooku believes that Sidious's real talent comes from not only his intellect but making use of the circumstances when his plans fail - essentially making a failure turn into victory.
no no no, i know you weren't flaming, and to be honest that statement wasn't to you...so to you, does greatest mean most powerful? As in, Sidious at that time, was the greatest Sith Lord who had ever lived? Just curious. But what I was saying, was that if he was the most powerful (Sith wise, not political) by ROTS, then he most likely would have been in AoTC being that there couldn't have been that big of a power swing in 3 years, thats all...
If the statement regards personal power, then yes, greatness refers to personal power and means "most powerful". The UVG isn't a law manual, it's not there to play word games with you. At the same time, sometimes you can interpret it many ways and sometimes there is only 1 way to interpret it. This specific quote has only 1 interpretation as Escape has proven.
No, seriously, Gideon's quite wrong, you can clearly see his desperation to end the discussion.
Being 'the greatest evil master to ever use sith power' is not conclusive, greatest =/ most powerful, and it could quite easily refer to his achievements by AotC as well as the plans he had already put into place.
Originally posted by The Sith'ari
No, seriously, Gideon's quite wrong, you can clearly see his desperation to end the discussion.Being 'the greatest evil master to ever use sith power' is not conclusive, greatest =/ most powerful, and it could quite easily refer to his achievements by AotC as well as the plans he had already put into place.
How badly do you lie to yourself to avoid depression and suicide? Escape has time and again embarassed you. He wants to end the discussion because you're wasting text space with absolutely no points whatsoever. Stop embarassing yourself for the last time.
greatest evil master to ever use sith power'
Pardon my interruption, but how the hell does this sentence relate to politics? Let's see a breakdown of this line:
greatest ------> foremost, strongest
evil master ---> Dark Lord of the Sith
Sith power ----> Dark Side of the Force
Basically, it's saying in simpler terms, Palpatine is the foremost/strongest Dark Lord of the Sith to use the Dark Side of the Force.
There's nothing that says sith power equates to political power. What are Sith Powers? Why nothing but the Dark Side!
I thought they were talking about power, not political power, and I thought that for some reason, Escape was arguing that Sids wasn't the most powerful sith lord, and Planet was trying to say he was, with examples of cloaking himself from the Jedi. So like i said before, I didn't want to read through 3 pages of insults to find the beginning of the debate. Laziness on my part I guess you could say, or perhaps a lack of patience for the content of the posts. However, politically, no palpatine hadn't yet achieved his goal, although he was working on it and doing well even though he had not succeeded yet. POwer in the force, I believe that he was the most powerful at that time, and his choice not to rush into, or not to force the plan along (no pun intended), is testament to his intelligence and patience, and shows yet another facet of him and why he was/is in fact the most powerful. But that's just imho.
Originally posted by The Sith'ari
No, seriously, Gideon's quite wrong, you can clearly see his desperation to end the discussion.Being 'the greatest evil master to ever use sith power' is not conclusive, greatest =/ most powerful, and it could quite easily refer to his achievements by AotC as well as the plans he had already put into place.
I would think twice before accusing me of desperation, Planet. Would you like for us all to compare your posts and their (lack of evolution)? How you went from "it is completely baseless" to "Sidious's accomplishments factor in". It would seem that the only one who is failing and is desperate would be you.
Likewise, Sidious's plans had not been achieved by the time that that quote was made - nor were they even all set in motion. Thus, 'til you provide proof otherwise, the quote translates to "most powerful" and this discussion is over.
As DS has reiterated, you're wasting my time. Simply repeating "no, you're wrong! I am right and it clearly refers to blah blah blah" does nothing to tip the scales in your favor and does not refute or disprove my interpretation of the quote. You'll need to do better.