Darth Vader runs the Gauntlet!

The novelization can be completely disregarded in this scenario, Escape. It describes a completely different battle. Almost nothing in the novel happens in the movie, period.

As far as the thoughts of the characters are concerned (which are detailed in the book), the novelization can stand. The omniscient narrator said it best: "Dooku is just dead. The rest is mere detail." That stands, which suffices to say how badly Dooku had screwed himself at this point. Period.

Dooku only really "lost" when Anakin managed to pull off a smart move and pin his hands. Up until that point, it can't justly be said that he was doomed.

The omniscient narrator in the novelization disagrees with you. Dooku was getting hammered across the General's quarters.

I don't, hence the sarcasm. Giving ground doesn't equate to getting beaten, not at all.

What the hell are you talking about? Against Count Dooku? Yeah, Obi-Wan got manhandled (and I'm talking about Dooku's use of the Force against Obi-Wan's defense). If you're talking about his fight with Anakin, Obi-Wan was on the losing end - which is why he had to give ground. He couldn't withstand Anakin's bombardment without going on the defensive.

When have I ever said - or even implied - that he could?

You didn't. Did I imply or say that you did? A point was brought up: "well, Dooku specializes in one handed fighting, which means he could keep Vader at bay with one hand and blast him with the other." Which would not work. Dooku - with two hands - would be struggling to overpower Vader in a blade-to-blade confrontation. He won't get the opportunity to do so, because he is physically weaker.

Agreed, for the most part. But again, he's not simply going to die as soon as Vader sticks both hands on his saber, not if he fights smart.

Right. Which is why I said, if Dooku can electrocute him with enough power, he's got this. But in a sheer fight? Vader is 80% of RotJ Sidious. If Dooku is more than that (and I'm not convinced that he is), it's not by much.

Obi-Wan got manhandled (and I'm talking about Dooku's use of the Force against Obi-Wan's defense).

I disagree. He didn't get manhandled when Dooku in desperation slammed him with a Force Push. He saw the hand coming forth and performed a strong defense that had him unphased in the end.

Originally posted by General Kenobl
I disagree. He didn't get manhandled when Dooku in desperation slammed him with a Force Push. He saw the hand coming forth and performed a strong defense that had him unphased in the end.

Dude, prove it.

Prove he knew it, and prepared for it. Or, accept what it was. Dooku was not intending to "kill him" but rather - get him out of his way. At that point, Dooku knew he couldn't take them both in a prolonged lightsaber duel. If Dooku were "desperate" it would mean that he was neither focused nor meticulous. Which means all he wanted to do was to get Obi-Wan out of the fight (even temporarily) so he could attempt to handle Anakin. Hence why Dooku's guards magically open fire at that point - to keep Obi-Wan the hell away from Dooku.

Advent and I have been through this with you already. A Force push in itself is not intrinsically damaging to a Force user. It only causes pain or death when that person impacts with something harshly. Obi-Wan lost velocity and fell to the floor. It's not the same as him being battered into a wall.

I'll address your rebuttle (provided you supply one) tommorrow. Cya.

Revan's connection is constantly being described as uber to the maxX7 Right Guard power band. Mater Dorak and Vandar said that Revan has one of the strongest connections to the force they've ever seen.

Who cares what he was called. Anoon Bondara was repeatedly said to be second to none in lightsaber combat, but Maul ripped him to shreds. Dorak and Vandar haven't seen ridiculously power people apparently or Revan never came close to achieving his potential.

His name is synonymous with power. He was called the heart of the force. Ajunta Pal when he looked upon Revan described the power he saw as "blinding". You could literally SEE the force swirling around Revan as Jolee said.

Again, descriptions of power that are probably exagerated aren't proof and cannot be flaunted as such in a discussion. And I'd certainly like to see when Ajunta ever called Revan's power blinding.

He was so powerful in the force not even the combined efforts of the Jedi council could keep his mind suppressed. Revan had such control and power in the force that he literally ripped an entire dialect system out of an entire species head, the proceeded to "force" Basic into the whole races minds. If he could toy with the minds of force sensitives (The Rataka Elders) so easily he could apply the same thing to destroying the brain. The Chronicles describe his dark side power as tremendous.

Here you go again with the vague descriptions. Everyone who is above average is described as having temendous or amazing power with the Force, so that's nothing too special. And how is taking the dialect out of an aliens head supposed to do jack diggity for him in a fight?

Darth Bane himself, literally crapped his pants in fear of the shit Revan knew, He himself was scared of the dark power and rituals Revan had under his command as a Dark Lord, he even said he wouldn't DARE ATTEMPT half the things Revan knew.

And he is exageration on your part. Bane said there were some rituals that he would never attempt, but it was never said to be half or anywhere near that. In addition, Bane is no where near top dog. If someone like Sidious said he would never attempt some of the things that Revan knew it would be amazing. Bane is no where near that level of power.

Vandar describes him as a prodigy, he had more knowledge of the Force:

Being a prodigy doesn't make him part of the top five. Mace, Anakin, Luke, Yoda, ect. could all be described as such.

Unbeknownst to the Jedi Order, DARTH REVAN has discovered numerous Sith artifacts and holocrons, all stored in great tomb-like cities buried beneath Malachor V's surface. As Revan plundered these tombs and relics, he fell deeper into the Dark Side. He learned of the location and the true nature of Korriban, he learned of the location of other Sith artifacts, and he learned how those strong in the light side of the Force could be seduced and made to see the strength inherent in the Sith teachings.

Revan knew he had discovered more than a staging area for the Mandalorian War - he had discovered an ancient, planet-sized Sith storehouse of knowledge. He had discovered a world that held one purpose - to teach and train others in the ways of the Sith - The Chronicles

More exageration. The storehouse on Malachor is no where near the size of a planet. His amount of knowledge has certainly been surpassed by others. Pretty much all Jedi as of the PT and afterwards had access to the Jedi Archives. The Archives are quite likely the single largest storehouse of information on the Force ever created. The NJO Jedi has a copy of the Archives that Luke recoved from the Chu'unthor. And knowing how to make Jedi fall to the Darkside won't help him in a fight.

Revan was the strongest Sith in an order of hundreds, in turn he was the strongest Jedi in an order of hundreds

Luke, Jacen, Kyp, Corran, and Raynar are all stronger than the strongest guy out of an Order of THOUSANDS of Jedi. Yoda was the strongest Jedi to have ever lived up until his death. There are plenty of people who could have filled Revan's role as the strongest of his time in his place.

He soon discovers the shadowy Malachor V, a planet listed by Mandalorian scholars as "forbidden" to step foot on. The reason for this soon becomes clear as Revan is almost devoured by primal Sith forces on the world's surface. Revan's will allows him to feed on (and not be consumed by) the power of the dark side.

He overpowered and feed on a planet drenched in the dark side a planet so powerful it broke Kreia:

she travels to Malachor V, but is unable to shield her emotions, and is completely consumed by the dark side of the Force. - The Chronicles

And this will help him in a versus fight how?

Revan according to Brianna (The Handmaiden) had the most powerful Battle Precognition the Galaxy had seen to that point, more powerful then the strongest of the Echani who could see MONTHS into the future and see battles before they even happened.

And for all of their strength the Echani never stood a chance against Force users in combat. The Battle Precognition allowed them to see the course of wars and such, but is it beyond Force Precognition? I don't think so. There's a reason that Jedi are the ultimate fighters in the galaxy.

Then we have the fact that in Path of Destruction Revan is mentioned along side Exar Kun and Naga Sadow (they had no idea his feats were done by Amulet and ship) as the most power Sith, as a Sith he has that sort of power and he only gets strogner and strogner as a Jedi.

Why would they have no idea that what Exar and Naga did was influenced by their technology? Have fun explaining that one logically, as I'm sure it will be hard. And guess what, as a Jedi he never gets to a point at which he surpassed Yoda because Yoda is canonically stated to have been the strongest Jedi ever to have lived.

Revan has beaten Malak on the Star Forge twice while he was being described by the databank as near invincible, and subsequently beat Bastila WHILE she was being pumped by the Star Foge FOUR TIMES. He beat Uthar Wynn and Yuthura, destroyed the Academy on Korriban. And he must have been physically extremely strong as well since he beat Madalore in hand to hand combat according to NEC.

What's physical strength supposed to do against people who can shove ships that are hundreds of feet long with a mere thought?

Revan beat a bunch of weaklings. So what. Yoda could have done the same thing.

He was also described as stronger as a Jedi then his tenure as Dark Lord (the version Bane pissed his pants over) then he REGAINS his knowledge from his run as a DOTS thus doubling his power.

And for all his knowledge he never surpasses Yoda. So sorry.

He was a lightsider? He may have filled the killiks with his values but he was still being controlled and manipulated by the Dark Nest.

It doesn't matter if he was manipulated, he was still a lightsider. He was a huge factor in bringing the Jedi Order back to the Living Force.

Dark Jedi =/= Jedi, Dark Jedi is the term we fans give to Dark Side characters who use the Dark Side of the force, simply because its easier then typing out Dark Force User. Thus that makes him no longer a Jedi, just because you don't "officially" change your title to Sith Lord doesn't make you not a Jedi anymore...if you no longer follow the Jedi code, YOUR NOT A JEDI. Did Raynar by the end of the Swarm WAR? No. He's not a Jedi.

Raynar did still follow the ways of the Jedi even as of the Swarm War and he did it better than most of the Jedi serving actively in the Order as well.

Uh no...Aurra was a bounty hunter who hunted JEDI, thats no the Republic, and all a Sith Lord would have to do is waltz into a Jedi Temple and say "Hi Ima Sith Lord" and they'd pounce on him with extreme prejudice.

Could the fact that Aurra hunted Jedi have some to do with the Order trying to elimanate her?

And it's not prejudice to attack a Sith Lord because it is the Sith way to enslave others, which conflicts with Jedi values.

No, this is the Raynar that your posing can beat Revan, the one being manipulated and controlled by the Dark Nest, he was insane and wasn't a Jedi.

I'm not denying that he was insane. It doesn't hurt him to much though. Look at Joruus for example. He was insane too, yet he was ridiculously powerful and capable as a fighter. Lord Nyax was insane, yet he rivaled NJO Luke in Force Powers. And Raynar was still a Jedi.

A Jedi Lord? You mean something that went out with the Russan Reformations...The Jedi don't do that kind of active domination of governments anymore.

He fits the position of a Jedi Lord through the fact that he was the leader over a group of people. He's no different than anyone on the Master's Council.

Revan drew the energy up. And the game is riddled with Kreia talking about how Revan could break the will of Jedi, and how Revan could form mass bonds with large people to exploit them.

Revan could break the will of WEAK Jedi. It wouldn't help him in a fihgt against someone powerful.

LOL, there are about 4 Jedi who would be on Revans level, Luke, Kyle, Kyp and Jacen(whom he couldn't control) now unless you wanna try and say controlling LIEA is a big feat then be my guest. The rest...no. Unless your seriously gonna sit here and try to tell me Mara Jade is as strong as Revan.

Corran could defeat Revan as well. And the only ones that Revan couldn't control are Luke and Jacen. Kyp, Kyle, and Corran, who Raynar was strong enough to outright control, are stronger than Revan.

Big f*cking whoop, again Luke was desperate against Lumiya, and had to resort to shooting her with a blaster five times.

And I could give two shits on a stick about a stupid feat war (which is what you wanna turn this into)

"Well Revan didn't do feat A, so Raynar is stronger!"

Since you can't quantify how much power it takes to force push Luke when he's not rooting himself to the ground, you really have no point, who's to say Revan, Kyp, Yoda, Mara, or even Ben couldn't do it.

Naming the three strongest feats doesn't make it a feat war. Listing dozens of random, meaningless feats to a fight is feat wars. If kept on point it's perfectly valid for discussion.

Again you're opinion. And so what, he was desperate...he also knocked the shit out of Unuthrul then proceed to dice up Lomi Plo, And of course he was desperate he was fighting TWO people drawing power from thousands.

Can you prove that Revan would do as well in Raynar's position.

1. This is Unuthrul your talking about NOT Raynar, they were two separate personalities, the Hive Mind was the one doing all your leet feats.

Wrong. Raynar was drawing power from the Hive but he was still himself.

2. UnuThrul gets an unfair advantage in the first place, him being able to draw energy from the hives, and the joiners, who at that time included Lomi Plo, Alema, Jania and other Force Users. Where as his own power is likely MUCH weaker then this.

Wrong again. Being able to draw power from the Hive is no different than a Jedi using a lightsaber in a fight or Sidious drawing on the power of Byss. It is not an unfair advantage.

3. This version of Raynar, Unuthrul, is not a Jedi and is thus void from this discussion of (the most powerful jedi) in the first place

Nope. I've shown that he's still a Jedi.

4. Your nutting your pants over a force push, when Luke wasn't fighting seriously, then again what happens when he gets serious...he knocks the shit out of Raynar then dices Lomi into four pieces.

That's far from the only thing I've mentioned Raynar having done. And there's more Jedi than Raynar that are better than Revan.

Luke
Jacen
Kyp
Kyle
Corran
Mace
Yoda

Revan's not in the top five. Get over it.

Dude, you've already been disproved about Raynar, I don't think you should walk that line again for your own sake. As for who you THINK is better than Revan(youre obviously anti KOTOR), lets check it out.
Luke... Check
Jacen...Maybe, maybe not, will be once he hits his prime.
Kyp? Powerful but on Revan's level? Debatable.
Corran? LOL...
Mace? In terms of the force? No way, maybe saber abilities.
Yoda? Very likely..

No, Revan is in the top 5.

Indeed, DS i agree, but THATS redeemed revan, not the sith lord revan and mace windu for sure > revan in swordplay alone

For sure how? Because of him knowing Vaapad? Revan was the best in his order of tens of thousands, but does that translate to him>Mace? Of course not, neither does it work vice versa, there's just not enough about Revan to explain how good he is compared to others.

We do know as a sith lord he was quite powerful, Especially what he had done to other jedi and what he did at malachor V being able to resist the entire planets dark side while it broke down kreia on the other hand.

I havnt seen much techniques of revans dark side feats yet though, i Read Pod and there was nothing to indicate he became stronger as you claimed, He looked more powerful when kreia was talking about him in K2 and its K2 which proves revan is in the top 5 sith lords

Remember, Bane said the knowledge contained in Revan's holocron was greater than all of the knowledge stored in the new Korriban library.

I don't know why I'm wasting my time with this...

Who cares what he was called. Anoon Bondara was repeatedly said to be second to none in lightsaber combat, but Maul ripped him to shreds. Dorak and Vandar haven't seen ridiculously power people apparently or Revan never came close to achieving his potential.

Is Anoon Bondara Revan? No. Not seen anyone powerful? Exar Kun ring a bell? Ulic Qel Droma, Nomi Sunrider...obviously you have no clue what your talking about (as usual) Vandar has been a Jedi Master since before the Great Sith War, he knows power, Dorak was the Jedi historian, he knows what he's talking about.

Again, descriptions of power that are probably exagerated aren't proof and cannot be flaunted as such in a discussion. And I'd certainly like to see when Ajunta ever called Revan's power blinding.

There exaggerations now? Jolee went out of his way to DOWNPLAY Revans power.

Revan "What do you see when you look at me?"

Jolee "More like a slight breeze"

As for Ajunta, play the damn game, play the Korriban part and go to his tomb as a Lightsider, he says to the affect of "That power its blinding I've seen it before" when Revan asks him if he had come before looking for the Star Maps.

Here you go again with the vague descriptions. Everyone who is above average is described as having temendous or amazing power with the Force, so that's nothing too special. And how is taking the dialect out of an aliens head supposed to do jack diggity for him in a fight?

Okay buddy, let me break it down for you, Look what Jacen did to Boba's daughter when he tried to forcibly rip information from 1 persons brain, he literally destroyed her brain, now Revan did this to an entire species, some of whom are force sensitive, and not only did he not melt there brains he shoved information IN to their heads. And had you not taken the post out of context you'd have seen that it wasn't in reference to a fight just general power.

And he is exageration on your part. Bane said there were some rituals that he would never attempt, but it was never said to be half or anywhere near that. In addition, Bane is no where near top dog. If someone like Sidious said he would never attempt some of the things that Revan knew it would be amazing. Bane is no where near that level of power.

Your grasping at straws, some, half, so what. The general purpose is still there.

"Bane could barley wrap his mind around the awesome potential. Some of the rituals were so terrible--so dangerous to attempt, even for a true Sith master--that he doubted he would ever dare use them." PoD pg 229

You were saying...

Bane was pretty much shitting his pants with what Revan knew. And Bane very powerful he'd be more then a match for Raynar.

Being a prodigy doesn't make him part of the top five. Mace, Anakin, Luke, Yoda, ect. could all be described as such.

Did I say it did? What the hell is your point here, again your taking the post out of context, it was in reference to general power. Reading Comprehension.

More exageration. The storehouse on Malachor is no where near the size of a planet. His amount of knowledge has certainly been surpassed by others. Pretty much all Jedi as of the PT and afterwards had access to the Jedi Archives. The Archives are quite likely the single largest storehouse of information on the Force ever created. The NJO Jedi has a copy of the Archives that Luke recoved from the Chu'unthor. And knowing how to make Jedi fall to the Darkside won't help him in a fight.

Revan knew he had discovered more than a staging area for the Mandalorian War - he had discovered an ancient, planet-sized Sith storehouse of knowledge. He had discovered a world that held one purpose - to teach and train others in the ways of the Sith - The Chronicles

I didn't type that dip shit, thats the chronicles, and Leeland Chee says they are canon.

REVAN has discovered numerous Sith artifacts and holocrons, all stored in great tomb-like cities buried beneath Malachor V's surface . - The Chronicles

You were saying.

How can the PT archives contain all the knowledge lost from Ossus, from the Jedi being dwindled down to barley 100, from the Jedi abandoning Courscant and Dantooine. All that was lost, and can't be replaced, the PT archives contain knowledge from that point on and likely some stuff from the KOTOR era. And again what the f*ck is your point? By saying his knowledge has been surpassed your implying EVERY Jedi from the PT era devotes himself to everything in the archives, they know about the dark side and all its powers from places like Malachor. Please. To even suggest that is idiotic. And were not talking about his personal knowledge vs the PT Archives.

As for breaking Jedi, again out of context.

Luke, Jacen, Kyp, Corran, and Raynar are all stronger than the strongest guy out of an Order of THOUSANDS of Jedi. Yoda was the strongest Jedi to have ever lived up until his death. There are plenty of people who could have filled Revan's role as the strongest of his time in his place.

Did I ever doubt Luke, Jacen and Yoda were on the top 5? No. And I love that argument for them simply stating stuff with nothing to back it up, I can do it too: Raynar sucks ass, Corran sucks ass, Kyp can't duel for shit. They blow. Revan would have owned them had he lived in that time. See fun isn't it!

And this will help him in a versus fight how?

Seriously do you need hooked on phonics? Your taking quotes out of context. It was AGAIN in reference to his general power. The fact that he's stronger then a planet drenched in the Dark Side, is a testament to his power.

And for all of their strength the Echani never stood a chance against Force users in combat. The Battle Precognition allowed them to see the course of wars and such, but is it beyond Force Precognition? I don't think so. There's a reason that Jedi are the ultimate fighters in the galaxy.

And Revan has both...dumbass/10

Why would they have no idea that what Exar and Naga did was influenced by their technology? Have fun explaining that one logically, as I'm sure it will be hard. And guess what, as a Jedi he never gets to a point at which he surpassed Yoda because Yoda is canonically stated to have been the strongest Jedi ever to have lived.

Not really, this is the New Sith Order Korriban Academy, Revan himself alone has more knowledge then the entire Academy, now that said Bane lives in a time two millennium after the Hyperspace Wars, in a time known as the Republics "dark ages" according to NEC, this time is influenced by legends of old and such, (Darovit saying the Jedi don't live up to the "songs" sung about them) With all this said, how the f*ck would they know that Naga Sadow had a amulet on while he was doing his feats? THey are in universe characters not looking upon comics and dissecting them. There's no way in hell they could know what the specifics of the battles were and when and what times Naga used his amulets. Bane himself even says that there are legends of Sith blowing up stars( Naga) and they were probably exaggerated, that alone says that he and the time period had no clue about the amulets.

Did I EVER say Revan > Yoda? No. Your trying to put words in my mouth.
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pwned

What's physical strength supposed to do against people who can shove ships that are hundreds of feet long with a mere thought?

I assume your speaking of Yoda? I NEVER said Revan was stronger then Yoda...point moot.

Revan beat a bunch of weaklings. So what. Yoda could have done the same thing.

Prove they were weak, considering Malak was described as near invincible by the databank proves you wrong.

And for all his knowledge he never surpasses Yoda. So sorry.

Did I say he did dipshit? Learn to read...its getting quite annoying repeating myself over and over because you need hooked on phonics.

It doesn't matter if he was manipulated, he was still a lightsider. He was a huge factor in bringing the Jedi Order back to the Living Force. Raynar did still follow the ways of the Jedi even as of the Swarm War and he did it better than most of the Jedi serving actively in the Order as well. And Raynar was still a Jedi.

He was insane that enough is proof that he wasn't a Jedi, as its contradictory to the very code you claim he followed.

There is no emotion , there is peace.

There is no passion

The fact that he can't control his own mental state and attacks other Jedi, means he's not a Jedi. GET OVER IT.

Could the fact that Aurra hunted Jedi have some to do with the Order trying to elimanate her?

Was that the point? No. You said she was a threat to the Republic.

And it's not prejudice to attack a Sith Lord because it is the Sith way to enslave others, which conflicts with Jedi values.

Oh please. Your assuming EVERY Sith Lord is the same, and if that was the case why didn't Qui Gon hack off all the slavers heads on Tatooine? Its prejudice plain and simple, the Jedi would leap over each other to kill a Sith Lord had one waltzed into the Temple.

I'm not denying that he was insane. It doesn't hurt him to much though. Look at Joruus for example. He was insane too, yet he was ridiculously powerful and capable as a fighter. Lord Nyax was insane, yet he rivaled NJO Luke in Force Powers.

He fits the position of a Jedi Lord through the fact that he was the leader over a group of people. He's no different than anyone on the Master's Council.

Considering the Jedi Abolished the very idea of a Jedi Lord pretty much shits on your point. Regardless he still isn't a Jedi.

Revan could break the will of WEAK Jedi. It wouldn't help him in a fihgt against someone powerful.

Prove they are weak, Oh thats right you can't...you don't have a point now do you?

Corran could defeat Revan as well. And the only ones that Revan couldn't control are Luke and Jacen. Kyp, Kyle, and Corran, who Raynar was strong enough to outright control, are stronger than Revan.

A huh even though Revan displays the same power Jacen does, to a MUCH higher degree and with MUCH more control and doesn't make anyones brains go "boom" in the process, and he was likely around the same age as Jacen. So tell me now if Unuthrul can't even control Jacen who doesn't even have full control over his own powers how can he touch Revan who exhibits much more power to a much higher degree then Jacen...oh thats right he can't.

Naming the three strongest feats doesn't make it a feat war. Listing dozens of random, meaningless feats to a fight is feat wars. If kept on point it's perfectly valid for discussion.

The fact that, you took it out of context is your own fault. Not mine. but you were doing what I showed an example of in my last post trying to make it a feat war because Unu's look cooler then Revans.

Can you prove that Revan would do as well in Raynar's position.

Does it matter? This is about Revan v Raynar, not Luke v Revan, considering Luke utterly shitted on Raynar(while contending with Lomi) I don't see whats your point.

Wrong. Raynar was drawing power from the Hive but he was still himself.

Wrong again. Being able to draw power from the Hive is no different than a Jedi using a lightsaber in a fight or Sidious drawing on the power of Byss. It is not an unfair advantage.

I'll concede this, its not like it matters even with that power he'd still get shitted on.

Nope. I've shown that he's still a Jedi.

No you've just been shown by me and Fanus that you have no clue what your talking about.

Revan's not in the top five. Get over it.

I just proved he is. But I recommend you give this site a whirl:

secure.hop.com/

Dude, prove it.

Prove he knew it, and prepared for it. Or, accept what it was. Dooku was not intending to "kill him" but rather - get him out of his way. At that point, Dooku knew he couldn't take them both in a prolonged lightsaber duel. If Dooku were "desperate" it would mean that he was neither focused nor meticulous. Which means all he wanted to do was to get Obi-Wan out of the fight (even temporarily) so he could attempt to handle Anakin. Hence why Dooku's guards magically open fire at that point - to keep Obi-Wan the hell away from Dooku.

Advent and I have been through this with you already. A Force push in itself is not intrinsically damaging to a Force user. It only causes pain or death when that person impacts with something harshly. Obi-Wan lost velocity and fell to the floor. It's not the same as him being battered into a wall.

I'll address your rebuttle (provided you supply one) tommorrow. Cya

Conceded.

Though, I strongly believe that Dooku cannot own Kenobi with the Force, but is just clearly better.

Originally posted by Gideon
As far as the thoughts of the characters are concerned (which are detailed in the book), the novelization can stand. The omniscient narrator said it best: "Dooku is just dead. The rest is mere detail." That stands, which suffices to say how badly Dooku had screwed himself at this point. Period.

The omniscient narrator in the novelization disagrees with you. Dooku was getting hammered across the General's quarters.

What the hell are you talking about? Against Count Dooku? Yeah, Obi-Wan got manhandled (and I'm talking about Dooku's use of the Force against Obi-Wan's defense).

If you're talking about his fight with Anakin, Obi-Wan was on the losing end - which is why he had to give ground. He couldn't withstand Anakin's bombardment without going on the defensive.

Right. Which is why I said, if Dooku can electrocute him with enough power, he's got this. But in a sheer fight? Vader is 80% of RotJ Sidious. If Dooku is more than that (and I'm not convinced that he is), it's not by much.

About Adjunta Pall:

"The force is so strong in you human"
"You...the force is with you. So strong, so bright."
"So much power... it is bliding"
"you who bristle with the force"
"I... see your power human jedi. I see your power, your pride"

These are PRECISE quotes from Adjunta Pall himself to Revan, i made the game just to take them as PRECISLY as they were showed, he said EXACTLY, word by word, this i write here now. And he is 1 of the top 4 Ancient Sith lords...

The thoughts would be valid enough if they detailed events that were shown in the movie. Dooku taking three vertical chops from Anakin and having his saber dirven into his shoulder did not happen, hence the thoughts detailing said sequence would be negligible.

I am referring to the statement made by the omniscient narrator: "Dooku was already dead. The rest was mere detail." Which seems to apply completely, as Anakin dominated the fight, leaving Dooku unable to take the offensive or use the Force against him.

The omniscient narrator happens to be contradicting the omniscient creator of SW and his one, true version of what really happened.

Prove that this was the case in this instance.

Yeah, duh. I happen to be talking about Anakin, which Sexy grasped.

Late, it would seem. Or, did you mention that it was Anakin vs. Obi-Wan prior to Sexy realizing that it was so? I don't recall such a statement being made.

Soresu is innately defensive, so obviously retreat is going to play heavily in the way Kenobi fights.

That was not the case with Count Dooku or General Grievous. If Anakin weren't dominating the fight (as Dooku and Grievous weren't dominating the fight) there'd be no explanation for Kenobi having to go on the defensive.

Before this stat burns a hole through the ground, I want someone to actually quantify its meaning instead of blandly throwing it out. The only meaning that would make sense given the context is that Vader's potential amounts to about that much of Sidious's potential. Which, while impressive, is probably not more than Dooku's.

According to everyone who has seen the quote, it does not refer to potential. Who knows? We know that Maul, Dooku, and cyborg-Vader do not have the potential to become as powerful as Sidious. Considering how Vader's midichlorian count was "extremely high" even after his loss to Obi-Wan (according to the complete Visual Guide) and he had nearly double the time that Dooku had to study the dark side, I'd say that it's close.

Originally posted by kamhal
About Adjunta Pall:

"The force is so strong in you human"
"You...the force is with you. So strong, so bright."
"So much power... it is bliding"
"you who bristle with the force"
"I... see your power human jedi. I see your power, your pride"

These are PRECISE quotes from Adjunta Pall himself to Revan, i made the game just to take them as PRECISLY as they were showed, he said EXACTLY, word by word, this i write here now. And he is 1 of the top 4 Ancient Sith lords...

He's one of the Top Four? Since when?

Ignore kamhal, his hormones a raging everytime he hears revans name

I AGREE