Darth Vader runs the Gauntlet!

Started by Kadesh9 pages

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Remember, Bane said the knowledge contained in Revan's holocron was greater than all of the knowledge stored in the new Korriban library.
irelevant, doesnt make him look any more powerful, already we knew what he did at malachors academy and he could have just recorded what he has learnt in that holocron. Page number please cuz i skipped a few pages

And believe me, have we seen exar kun, naga sadow or any other sith before revan bothering to further study the dark side? We never see them do much research as much as revan, of course revan knows more in this situation but does it rule out he > all the ancient sith, does it mean he > sidious?

The book even made revan, exar and naga look equal in power.

Let me give an example, This guy, super smart scientist, knows all knowledge of kung ku or what ever other martial art, but does it that mean he looks more powerful? I dont think so

Originally posted by Gideon
I am referring to the statement made by the omniscient narrator: "Dooku was already dead. The rest was mere detail." Which seems to apply completely, as Anakin dominated the fight, leaving Dooku unable to take the offensive or use the Force against him.
Yeah, but that's another of Stover's ambiguous statements which can be interpreted in a million different ways. Even in the way you're using it, it's hardly basis for a case.

Prove that this was the case in this instance.
You didn't specify the instance - unless you're referring to the above quote.

Late, it would seem. Or, did you mention that it was Anakin vs. Obi-Wan prior to Sexy realizing that it was so? I don't recall such a statement being made.
Considering your post was after his, I assumed you'd have read it. If you did, there'd have been no need to ask.

That was not the case with Count Dooku or General Grievous. If Anakin weren't dominating the fight (as Dooku and Grievous weren't dominating the fight) there'd be no explanation for Kenobi having to go on the defensive.
Well, by what I'm guessing is your definition of "manhandling," Grievous did just that until the clones arrived. And against Dooku? Last I checked - which was five minutes ago - Obi-Wan got WTFpwned 40-ish seconds into the fight when he tried to go on the offensive against a superior warrior.

However, I'm of the opinion that in a sabers-only duel between Obi-Wan and Dooku, we'd probably have a much longer fight than any we've seen so far. Kenobi's Soresu mastery could likely stave off Dooku's Makashi for quite a while, and the Count isn't one to screw up like Anakin to shorten the battle.

According to everyone who has seen the quote, it does not refer to potential. Who knows? We know that Maul, Dooku, and cyborg-Vader do not have the potential to become as powerful as Sidious. Considering how Vader's midichlorian count was "extremely high" even after his loss to Obi-Wan (according to the complete Visual Guide) and he had nearly double the time that Dooku had to study the dark side, I'd say that it's close.
Everyone who's supported the assertion that Vader > Dooku, yeah. And I'm curious to see just how many people have seen the actual quote and not a recycled version presented by people trying to prove something.

Maybe you should read the dooku vs vader thread, ALL of the ones created and ESPECIALLY the 1000 posts. you will see it faunus.

Just to let you know, a year or 2 ago, Vader is infact the most underrated character in KMC and now since with all of us here, he isnt so underrated except for anti-vaders, any body who has lightning or is faster wins by default by these peoples logic, Now its different ok?

Yeah, but that's another of Stover's ambiguous statements which can be interpreted in a million different ways. Even in the way you're using it, it's hardly basis for a case.

Really? Out of curiosity, why is it that everyone brings up the "ambiguity" line when a quote is made that doesn't support their assertion? How else could the line be interpreted, Faunus?

"Dooku was already dead. The rest is mere detail." That seems pretty cut-and-dry to me. When Anakin got pissed and abandoned his restraint, Dooku didn't stand a chance. But, hey. Y'know what, for the sake of spawning a long argument, I'll take your word for it.

You didn't specify the instance - unless you're referring to the above quote.

That would be it.

Considering your post was after his, I assumed you'd have read it. If you did, there'd have been no need to ask.

I didn't. But you shouldn't expect someone to grasp something that you leave unspecified, Faunus. Pardon me for not reading or not matching up to Sexy's intellect.

Well, by what I'm guessing is your definition of "manhandling," Grievous did just that until the clones arrived.

Do you mean "Grievous got manhandled"? Yeah. He did. If you are suggesting that my "definition" of manhandling implies that Obi-Wan was getting manhandled, though, you didn't read clearly enough.

And against Dooku? Last I checked - which was five minutes ago - Obi-Wan got WTFpwned 40-ish seconds into the fight when he tried to go on the offensive against a superior warrior.

We're discussing Obi-Wan's offensive/defensive tendancies. Dooku was on the defensive. Obi-Wan was not. Dooku was giving ground. Obi-Wan was not.

However, I'm of the opinion that in a sabers-only duel between Obi-Wan and Dooku, we'd probably have a much longer fight than any we've seen so far. Kenobi's Soresu mastery could likely stave off Dooku's Makashi for quite a while, and the Count isn't one to screw up like Anakin to shorten the battle.

Completely agreed.

Everyone who's supported the assertion that Vader > Dooku, yeah. And I'm curious to see just how many people have seen the actual quote and not a recycled version presented by people trying to prove something.

Maybe.

Originally posted by Kadesh Maybe you should read the dooku vs vader thread, ALL of the ones created and ESPECIALLY the 1000 posts. you will see it faunus.
Maybe I was here during one of the million Vader/Dooku threads, saw all the evidence, and went with Dooku.

Just to let you know, a year or 2 ago, Vader is infact the most underrated character in KMC and now since with all of us here, he isnt so underrated except for anti-vaders, any body who has lightning or is faster wins by default by these peoples logic, Now its different ok?
I think I got the jist of that post - that I'm "anti-vader" and out of sync with "da timez" - but punctuation and capitalization are still kinda useful.

This subject sore for you, Faunus, or is there some bad blood between you and Kadesh? 'Cuz it seems that you're being remarkably rude to a guy who is trying to express his opinion.

Originally posted by Gideon I didn't. But you shouldn't expect someone to grasp something that you leave unspecified, Faunus. Pardon me for not reading or not matching up to Sexy's intellect.
Hm. My bad, then.

Do you mean "Grievous got manhandled"? Yeah. He did. If you are suggesting that my "definition" of manhandling implies that Obi-Wan was getting manhandled, though, you didn't read clearly enough.
Well, from what I'm gathering, you seem to think that giving ground equates to being manhandled. If this is the case, then Obi-Wan most certainly got said treatment when Grievous had him dodging and backpedaling like crazy. Hence, by said logic, Obi-Wan got manhandled. Hopefully I'm just missing something.

We're discussing Obi-Wan's offensive/defensive tendancies. Dooku was on the defensive. Obi-Wan was not. Dooku was giving ground. Obi-Wan was not.
Yes, and again, when Obi-Wan went on the offensive against a more proficient duelist, he got pwned. Everytime he successfully defended himself, he ended up destroying his opponents.

Completely agreed.

Maybe.

Wootz for headway.

I'll be back later. We can finish it then.

Originally posted by Gideon
This subject sore for you, Faunus, or is there some bad blood between you and Kadesh? 'Cuz it seems that you're being remarkably rude to a guy who is trying to express his opinion.
Well for one, I don't like being told my opinion is invalid, outdated, or simply wrong, as no one has the right to tell someone else that. Two, I had to read his post three times before I could understand it, something I haven't had to do in seven months.

And really - SW isn't quite enough to get me upset. It's the logic (or lack of) and the people that get to me.

Originally posted by Faunus
Maybe I was here during one of the million Vader/Dooku threads, saw all the evidence, and went with Dooku.
Then you must be an idiot( no offence) everything me subjeckt, Kenobi and gideon wrote proved vader > dooku

Originally posted by Faunus

I think I got the jist of that post - that I'm "anti-vader" and out of sync with "da timez" - but punctuation and capitalization are still kinda useful.
Well thank you for telling sir!

Originally posted by Kadesh
Then you must be an idiot( no offence) everything me subjeckt, Kenobi and gideon wrote proved vader > dooku

Well thank you for telling sir!

I smell bullsh*t. No, actually bullsh*t smells better than what you just posted.

Originally posted by Kadesh Then you must be an idiot( no offence)
Some taken, and I hope you understand why.

everything me subjeckt, Kenobi and gideon wrote proved vader > dooku
Well, Subjekt and Gideon may have provided good arguments for their side, but the ones provided by Dooku's advocates were, imo, far better. For the record, I'm referring to the points made by Janus, Illustrious, and the first crowd, not the people who came after. Also, I'd like to see exactly what you contributed to that debate.

Originally posted by Faunus

Well, Subje[b]k
t and Gideon may have provided good arguments for their side, but the ones provided by Dooku's advocates were, imo, far better. For the record, I'm referring to the points made by Janus, Illustrious, and the first crowd, not the people who came after. Also, I'd like to see exactly what you contributed to that debate. [/B]

Um that was before the thread was resurrected. Just to let you know, janus and illustrious and the first crowd highly overrate the ancient sith, they refute canon that Palpatine is the most powerful sith and the severely overrate certein characters, Sorry faunus, Read the threads, all of them, what ever the dooku fans contributed has all been refuted. I cant tell you, you have to read it yourself, I bet if i asked you, palpatine vs Marka ragnos you are going to show fandom by saying ragnos wins.

Want to know something? The votes for the webpage showed vader 12-29 before we stepped in, and when we did, the voted become 29-29 because people were convinced by our arguements that vader > dooku, and far better you say? Who on earth 2 years ago ever argued for vader? Vader and palpatine were the most underrated characters that time with the older-refuting canon people like you around. One thing faunus i sense in you, denial. Try arguing with lightsnake about palpatine and you will get pwned horribly

Originally posted by Kadesh

Want to know something? The votes for the webpage showed vader 12-29 before we stepped in, and when we did, the voted become 29-29 because people were convinced by our arguements that vader > dooku, and far better you say?

Im sure most people vote before before they read the arguments, therefore your 'stepping in' meant jack sh*t. Its just because there are more Vader fanboys around these days than there were whenever the argument was started.

Its a case of 'teh big bl@(k gUy wi11z beat teh 0ld dude!!!!!11///.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
Im sure most people vote before before they read the arguments, therefore your 'stepping in' meant jack sh*t. Its just because there are more Vader fanboys around these days than there were whenever the argument was started.

Its a case of 'teh big bl@(k gUy wi11z beat teh 0ld dude!!!!!11///.

Wrong, it was people who voted for dooku before reading, And since when are there so many vader fanboys? Even if they did vote they were convinced vader would rean before they have or have not read the arguements and when they vote, they are further convinced by our arguements.

Again, prove that people voted for vader before reading out posts, that was my opinion earlier

Because one votes on their favourite character, or who seems more likely to win, doesnt make the vote correct and certainly doesnt mean that who they voted for is going to be better. Like I said before, at first glance Vader seems far more likely to win against Dooku. But we both know thats not the case.

You do there was as much fans with vader 2 years ago do you? And at that time dooku was winning, not till the vader debating team stepped in, People were convinced that what we typed were enough to prove vader > dooku. And therefore peopl nowadays tend to read before voting, Because the fandom for vader is not even half of what the kotor fandom is all about, Get my point?

a year ago also every1 voted for dooku, nobody cared about vader, and even when GK brought the thread back, people still voted for dooku and not vader, Not till the entire vader team debated that includes me, gideon,subjeckt, GK, Jollyjim and many others
THATS when vaders votes increased,

Ill continue this later ok?

Originally posted by jollyjim311
Dooku should definitely be higher up on the list, but, Vader just has a bunch of advantages.

He has more raw power in the force, and about as much experience (what he lacks in years he makes up for in intensity. Anything that The Empire needed done that required a powerful individual that they wouldn't trust to the likes of a bounty hunter, Vader was there).

He also, has a few specific advantages:

Form V: Best against Makashi.
Physical strength: Incredible strength and a form that plays off that,
Armor: That deflects weak blows of Makashi.
Knowledge of Dooku.

I can elaborate or quote one of my unfortunately numerous old posts like this if you want.

Also:
He is great with just his hands, from deflecting bolts to punching!:
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=75&page=070
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=77&page=002 -> http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=77&page=003
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=79&page=043
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=79&page=044
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=79&page=128
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=79&page=129
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=79&page=134
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=152&page=077
In ESB, he reflected a bolt back with his hands.

He has some great TK abilities:
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=75&page=079
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=75&page=080
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=75&page=088
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=77&page=064
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=77&page=073
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=79&page=038
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=79&page=120
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=79&page=121
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=79&page=132
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=85&page=021
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=152&page=072
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=152&page=079
He bombarded Luke with debris in ESB.
He choked an admiral kilometers away.
He choked a kajabizziolion people.
He pulled Han (and Bobas) gun away.
He ripped apart a tree in RODV that was unaffected by blaster fire.
He controlled his thrown lightsaber even when a Jedi, who was closer to the saber, tried to stop it.

He's great with his lightsaber:
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=75&page=075
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=77&page=065
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=77&page=071
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=77&page=072
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=77&page=074
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=77&page=083
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=77&page=084
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=77&page=085
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=79&page=036
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=79&page=037
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=79&page=039
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=79&page=133
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=79&page=135
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=101&page=032
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=101&page=033
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=101&page=034
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=152&page=069
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=152&page=070
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=152&page=071
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=152&page=074
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=152&page=075
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=152&page=078
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=128&page=026
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=128&page=027
He beat Luke in ESB.
He beat Obi Wan.
He owned some padawans in RODV.
He carved through an army of wookiees in RODV in seconds.
He toyed with a pair of experienced Jedi Knights in RODV.

Have I made my point? If not, I'm sure I could find more...

I left out stuff from Purge in this, but, I think you get the point.

Don'tcha, Cutie? naughty

me, gideon,subjeckt, GK, Jollyjim and many others

Yea! Vadha' Pride brother!!! 😎

Originally posted by General Kenobl
Yea! Vadha' Pride brother!!! 😎

Not just pride, Bro, Proof.