Superman and Flash vs Ice Man and Beta Ray Bill

Started by superbatman866 pages

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
No offense but it looks to me like you cannot read. He stated numerous ways for Flash to defeat Bobby without laying a finger on him. Fact of the matter is Flash's reaction time + his ridiculous speed is too much for Bobby to handle. Hell I'd say Superman's speed is way too much for Bobby to handle.
And it seems like you don't understand that NONE of that would hurt him let alone knock him out of the fight.The only thing the Flash can do to even effect him for more than few seconds is Speed Force Dump and since he's never done it on his own or instantanisouly it's a mute point.

isn't the only flash around anymore bart alan (I totaly spelled it wrong) who has the speed force in him. Also didn't he own superboy prime. That flash can take out both iceman and bill. If we are talking about wally then he's a lot more limited. Like he can't go multiples of light speed in an instant (even though faster then light speed is crap) he needs to build up to it.

Why did you give Bill Iceman as a partner?

Originally posted by Beta Ray Howard
Why did you give Bill Iceman as a partner?
It was an odd choice wasn't it.

Hmmm, this is not as one sided as it may seem.

While I admit Iceman is not generally looked as a powerhouse against these type of opponents, knowledge is the key factor.

You see, go to the Superman vs Iceman thread. Lasted more than 30 pages of the most intelligent debate I have seen on these boards since I was here. Now most of you will think that Superman has the immediate advantage against Iceman (powerhouse of the universe>>mutant) however Iceman has a few tactical advantages that he can use to his advantage. More on that in a second.

On to the Flash, Flash as Draco put has many ways to take out the almost physically unbeatable Iceman. HOWEVER, Flash will not know that simply shattering Iceman will not kill him. It is NOT common knowledge, since almost no one on the X-men team even knows it (hell Beast expressed amazement when he did it, and that was like a few times after he had done it himself.)

Also in question is will that really work. Things that SHOULD have killed Iceman in the past have not (most impressive in my mind is being blown up at light speed in HUMAN form, then coming back and saving Mystique and also being absorbed and used to fuel a mans flame body, then popping out of his body, that had no moisture since he was fully flame, and killing him with an ice spike)

All that said, while Flash is the main element in this fight, he and Superman will not know about Iceman's moisture inversion. That being the case, he can go into that form, and work on them while BRB gets his ass kicked (which he would. Sorry to any BRB fans).

I am not saying that Iceman is more powerful than Flash, and while I think he could take Superman one on one , I think that it is his tactical advantage in not actually NEEDING a body and being able to operate from anywhere including inside someones body that can help his team win this battle

Cosigning Blair.

The Flash definitely CAN obliterate Iceman before Iceman even knows what's going on.

However, the Flash won't KNOW to. Iceman will be totally undetectable, and will eventually reside within both the Flash and Superman.

Who knows how it might go from there?

Originally posted by Soljer
Cosigning Blair.

The Flash definitely CAN obliterate Iceman before Iceman even knows what's going on.

However, the Flash won't KNOW to. Iceman will be totally undetectable, and will eventually reside within both the Flash and Superman.

Who knows how it might go from there?

Superman has "soul" vision (meaning he can literally see spirits and souls and consciousnesses [more recently displayed in the recent Action Comics storyline where he perceives the consciousness of a fallen soldier without a body]), which means he'll see Bobby.

After Beta Ray Bill falls nearly instantaneously to a Speedforced amped Superman, they'll likely think the battle is won (IF Wally doesn't pull out the various ways Wally can instantly defeat Bobby which nobody obviously wants to hear so they've stuffed their ears with cotton), and Iceman somehow manages to pull his consciousness together AND figure out a line of attack (with the amount of force Flash is punching Iceman with he'll likely be as disoriented and stunned as he was in Uncanny X-Men, which by he almost DIED if Mystique hadn't saved his ass) AND somehow manage to appear in the body of translight moving superbeing than he'll likely try to syphon moisture from Flash/Superman, freeze their blood from within, or suck out all their moisture to make a new body what would happen?

Let's actually THINK here. Flash is powered by the Speedforce. Which means he's in tap with constant motion. Absolute zero has absolutely no effect on him since as stated on panel numerous times with his encounter with Captain Cold who uses a weapon that generates absolute zero temperatures, his molecules are incapable of being reduced to absolute zero. Why? Because every cell, every molecule, every atom, every FIBER of his being his amped with the SpeedForce. And to make matters even worse for Bobby, his costume which bonds to his skin and body, is LITERALLY made of SpeedForce in gelatin form. Which means it's incapable of being reduced to absolute zero. The SpeedForce is constant motion, constant kinetic energy in the entire multiverse that cannot be stopped, altered or halted. Doing so would require someone on the level of the Spectre.

Conclusion? Iceman's absolute-zero trick will do dipsh*t to Flash. He cannot be frozen or stripped of his kinetic energy as absolute zero temperatures since every fiber of his being is connected to the granddaddy of kinetic energy.

And it won't work on Superman because Flash will amp his speed with the Speedforce which will grant him the same protections the Speedforce aura grants Flash.

Bobby's first tactic won't do sh**. No, to humor the fanboys, let's say Flash and Superman are stupid enough not to realize that they're not being attacked by Iceman. Iceman realizes freezing isn't doing shit. He then tries to suck the moisture out of them.

Well, an obvious point that everyone seems to ignore: Flash and Superman think, react, and act really, really, really, really, really, really, fast.

In the space between .0001 and .0002

Flash: I say, dear chap. I do believe that this tendril of water coming out our eyeballs is an attack from Iceman. It most certainly feels a mite painful.

Superman: Oh, cheerio! I must agree! I'm using my soul vision and it appears that this Iceman fellow is still alive in our bodies and is attempting to suck out every drop of moisture we have!

Flash: Oh, dear! That sounds just dreadful!

Superman: Using my genius Kryptonian intellect in conjunction with my translightspeed rate of though, I theorize this bugger is an elemental capable of transferring his consciousness in any water molecules he wants.

Flash: Well, that's just stupid. What kind of hack writer thought up that idea? The old boy was just throwing snow balls a few years ago.

Superman: Yes, it's quite the posh, isn't it?

Flash: I say, let's vibrate our molecules to translightspeeds...oh you still have that SpeedForce buff I gave you after you completely mauled that savage with the face of an ox, don't you?

Superman: Oh, yes certainly, yes, yes. Carry on.

Flash: Why, my thank you. I suggest we vibrate our molecules to translightspeed to disrupt our molecular composition to the point where molecules break apart. Which our molecular composition not even considered to be molecular enough to be considered anything like matter at all, he won't be draining us of every drop of water!

Superman: Fine idea, old chap! But what if that doesn't kill him?

Flash: It's bound to get him out of us, anyhoo! He can't survive in a body with no coherent water molecules! Our molecules will be scrambling about at lightspeed! He'd likely die from such a tramatic experience anyhoo.

Superman: And if that doesn't work?

Flash: My god, man! You sound like an Iceman fanboy! If THAT doesn't work, he'll have to find another body of moisture to transfer to like say the air! You use your soulvision and I'll simply dump that little uppity bastard in the Speed Force or the Anti-Matter universe. Whatever floats my fancy.

Superman: Well that sounds just swell! What time is it, by the way?

Flash: Eh, I measure between .0003 and .0004.

Superman: Ah, thank you good sir. Let's get this show on the road shall we?

Flash: Yes, let's. This poor bastard. He really doesn't know what's going to hit him.

What people need to get: SPEED, SPEED, SPEED. ANY attack that Iceman somehow manages to get on Superman or Flash will be recognized, analyzed, countered, and debuffed in the pectosecond after Iceman even begins to launch the attack on the duo.

Iceman is screwed. He simply doesn't have the reactions nor speed necessary not to mention the ABILITY to kill Speedforced amped Superman or the Flash for that matter unless they're incredibly stupid .

On another note, isn't dispersing Iceman's molecules to heavens and the netherworld below from such a lethal attack considered a KO on this forum?

Wolverine is currently immortal. He can grow back from a skeleton. Does that mean he automatically wins every battle since he just won't stay dead?

Iceman nearly DIED when Northstar kaboomed his ass. And he would have if Mystique hadn't given him CPR.

If reducing Wolverine to a skeleton is considered a KO, why not reducing Iceman's body to nothingness and having his consciousness blown across the four winds?

flash wouldnt need to hit brb with an imp. steeling any kinetic energy brb has, and viabrating through his chest, pulling out his heart, and throwng it at him with the mass of a star would instantly kill him.

and flash wouldnt need to "physiaclly" hurt bobby. before bobby could render up anything to do, flash could speedforce dump, send his molecules through mulit- interdimensional, universes/ back and forth through the time. or as he did with death itself, run iceman to the end of time and back again before brb heart were to smash into his own face.

so superman can just stand there with a smile on his face while flash does his thing lol

The Flash Speedfarce wank on this forum is about the funniest stuff I have read in a long time.

This forum has essentially turned Speedfarce Flash into Internet Chuck Norris.

Originally posted by Draco69
Superman has "soul" vision (meaning he can literally see spirits and souls and consciousnesses [more recently displayed in the recent Action Comics storyline where he perceives the consciousness of a fallen soldier without a body]), which means he'll see Bobby.

After Beta Ray Bill falls nearly instantaneously to a Speedforced amped Superman, they'll likely think the battle is won (IF Wally doesn't pull out the various ways Wally can instantly defeat Bobby which nobody obviously wants to hear so they've stuffed their ears with cotton), and Iceman somehow manages to pull his consciousness together AND figure out a line of attack (with the amount of force Flash is punching Iceman with he'll likely be as disoriented and stunned as he was in Uncanny X-Men, which by he almost DIED if Mystique hadn't saved his ass) AND somehow manage to appear in the body of translight moving superbeing than he'll likely try to syphon moisture from Flash/Superman, freeze their blood from within, or suck out all their moisture to make a new body what would happen?

Let's actually THINK here. Flash is powered by the Speedforce. Which means he's in tap with constant motion. Absolute zero has absolutely no effect on him since as stated on panel numerous times with his encounter with Captain Cold who uses a weapon that generates absolute zero temperatures, his molecules are incapable of being reduced to absolute zero. Why? Because every cell, every molecule, every atom, every FIBER of his being his amped with the SpeedForce. And to make matters even worse for Bobby, his costume which bonds to his skin and body, is LITERALLY made of SpeedForce in gelatin form. Which means it's incapable of being reduced to absolute zero. The SpeedForce is constant motion, constant kinetic energy in the entire multiverse that cannot be stopped, altered or halted. Doing so would require someone on the level of the Spectre.

Conclusion? Iceman's absolute-zero trick will do dipsh*t to Flash. He cannot be frozen or stripped of his kinetic energy as absolute zero temperatures since every fiber of his being is connected to the granddaddy of kinetic energy.

And it won't work on Superman because Flash will amp his speed with the Speedforce which will grant him the same protections the Speedforce aura grants Flash.

Bobby's first tactic won't do sh**. No, to humor the fanboys, let's say Flash and Superman are stupid enough not to realize that they're not being attacked by Iceman. Iceman realizes freezing isn't doing shit. He then tries to suck the moisture out of them.

Well, an obvious point that everyone seems to ignore: Flash and Superman think, react, and act really, really, really, really, really, really, fast.

[B]In the space between .0001 and .0002

Flash: I say, dear chap. I do believe that this tendril of water coming out our eyeballs is an attack from Iceman. It most certainly feels a mite painful.

Superman: Oh, cheerio! I must agree! I'm using my soul vision and it appears that this Iceman fellow is still alive in our bodies and is attempting to suck out every drop of moisture we have!

Flash: Oh, dear! That sounds just dreadful!

Superman: Using my genius Kryptonian intellect in conjunction with my translightspeed rate of though, I theorize this bugger is an elemental capable of transferring his consciousness in any water molecules he wants.

Flash: Well, that's just stupid. What kind of hack writer thought up that idea? The old boy was just throwing snow balls a few years ago.

Superman: Yes, it's quite the posh, isn't it?

Flash: I say, let's vibrate our molecules to translightspeeds...oh you still have that SpeedForce buff I gave you after you completely mauled that savage with the face of an ox, don't you?

Superman: Oh, yes certainly, yes, yes. Carry on.

Flash: Why, my thank you. I suggest we vibrate our molecules to translightspeed to disrupt our molecular composition to the point where molecules break apart. Which our molecular composition not even considered to be molecular enough to be considered anything like matter at all, he won't be draining us of every drop of water!

Superman: Fine idea, old chap! But what if that doesn't kill him?

Flash: It's bound to get him out of us, anyhoo! He can't survive in a body with no coherent water molecules! Our molecules will be scrambling about at lightspeed! He'd likely die from such a tramatic experience anyhoo.

Superman: And if that doesn't work?

Flash: My god, man! You sound like an Iceman fanboy! If THAT doesn't work, he'll have to find another body of moisture to transfer to like say the air! You use your soulvision and I'll simply dump that little uppity bastard in the Speed Force or the Anti-Matter universe. Whatever floats my fancy.

Superman: Well that sounds just swell! What time is it, by the way?

Flash: Eh, I measure between .0003 and .0004.

Superman: Ah, thank you good sir. Let's get this show on the road shall we?

Flash: Yes, let's. This poor bastard. He really doesn't know what's going to hit him.

What people need to get: SPEED, SPEED, SPEED. ANY attack that Iceman somehow manages to get on Superman or Flash will be recognized, analyzed, countered, and debuffed in the pectosecond after Iceman even begins to launch the attack on the duo.

Iceman is screwed. He simply doesn't have the reactions nor speed necessary not to mention the ABILITY to kill Speedforced amped Superman or the Flash for that matter unless they're incredibly stupid .

On another note, isn't dispersing Iceman's molecules to heavens and the netherworld below from such a lethal attack considered a KO on this forum?

Wolverine is currently immortal. He can grow back from a skeleton. Does that mean he automatically wins every battle since he just won't stay dead?

Iceman nearly DIED when Northstar kaboomed his ass. And he would have if Mystique hadn't given him CPR.

If reducing Wolverine to a skeleton is considered a KO, why not reducing Iceman's body to nothingness and having his consciousness blown across the four winds? [/B]

What your failing to realize is that none of the things you said ACTUALLY beats Iceman.NONE of them.Flash has never done a speed force dump on his own.Ever.So he steals Supes speed leaving him getting destroyed against BRB and he STILL won't have enough to dump Bobby.Speed doesn't factor into his ability to survive in water.You could smash him at a billion times the speed of light and he would still come back.And vibratating their own molecules wouldn't alter their make up because if it did it would kill them both as both are dependant on water to live and the speed force doesn't protect against that.The second that his physical form is shattered they procceed to tag team BRB into submission and think the fight is over until Iceman kills every cell in their bodies so they instantanously drop dead.

flash has done a speedforce dump on his own. he did so while fighting savatar

The Flash Speedfarce wank on this forum is about the funniest stuff I have read in a long time.

This forum has essentially turned Speedfarce Flash into Internet Chuck Norris.

- anything said here on these forums is taken from comic books. so saying these forums is just "making" him the strong character he is, is pretty lame. you have to remember flash was the first of his kind. the first real superhero based on purely speed. so of course the writers of dc have to make him a strong character. any, and everything said here about flash, flash can do. like saying he cant speedforce dump on his own. just cuz superman has never frozen anyone with his breath, then broke them in half, them melted away his body with heat vision, doesnt mean he cant do it.

seriously now, to say iceman and flash is debatable is retarded. the flash comic series has beaten people like anti-monitor/ superboy prime/
zoom/ and green lanturn. so unless iceman can go toe to toe with anyone of these powerhouses, he cant with flash.

Originally posted by Draco69
Superman has "soul" vision (meaning he can literally see spirits and souls and consciousnesses [more recently displayed in the recent Action Comics storyline where he perceives the consciousness of a fallen soldier without a body]), which means he'll see Bobby.

After Beta Ray Bill falls nearly instantaneously to a Speedforced amped Superman, they'll likely think the battle is won (IF Wally doesn't pull out the various ways Wally can instantly defeat Bobby which nobody obviously wants to hear so they've stuffed their ears with cotton), and Iceman somehow manages to pull his consciousness together AND figure out a line of attack (with the amount of force Flash is punching Iceman with he'll likely be as disoriented and stunned as he was in Uncanny X-Men, which by he almost DIED if Mystique hadn't saved his ass) AND somehow manage to appear in the body of translight moving superbeing than he'll likely try to syphon moisture from Flash/Superman, freeze their blood from within, or suck out all their moisture to make a new body what would happen?

Let's actually THINK here. Flash is powered by the Speedforce. Which means he's in tap with constant motion. Absolute zero has absolutely no effect on him since as stated on panel numerous times with his encounter with Captain Cold who uses a weapon that generates absolute zero temperatures, his molecules are incapable of being reduced to absolute zero. Why? Because every cell, every molecule, every atom, every FIBER of his being his amped with the SpeedForce. And to make matters even worse for Bobby, his costume which bonds to his skin and body, is LITERALLY made of SpeedForce in gelatin form. Which means it's incapable of being reduced to absolute zero. The SpeedForce is constant motion, constant kinetic energy in the entire multiverse that cannot be stopped, altered or halted. Doing so would require someone on the level of the Spectre.

Conclusion? Iceman's absolute-zero trick will do dipsh*t to Flash. He cannot be frozen or stripped of his kinetic energy as absolute zero temperatures since every fiber of his being is connected to the granddaddy of kinetic energy.

And it won't work on Superman because Flash will amp his speed with the Speedforce which will grant him the same protections the Speedforce aura grants Flash.

Bobby's first tactic won't do sh**. No, to humor the fanboys, let's say Flash and Superman are stupid enough not to realize that they're not being attacked by Iceman. Iceman realizes freezing isn't doing shit. He then tries to suck the moisture out of them.

Well, an obvious point that everyone seems to ignore: Flash and Superman think, react, and act really, really, really, really, really, really, fast.

[B]In the space between .0001 and .0002

Flash: I say, dear chap. I do believe that this tendril of water coming out our eyeballs is an attack from Iceman. It most certainly feels a mite painful.

Superman: Oh, cheerio! I must agree! I'm using my soul vision and it appears that this Iceman fellow is still alive in our bodies and is attempting to suck out every drop of moisture we have!

Flash: Oh, dear! That sounds just dreadful!

Superman: Using my genius Kryptonian intellect in conjunction with my translightspeed rate of though, I theorize this bugger is an elemental capable of transferring his consciousness in any water molecules he wants.

Flash: Well, that's just stupid. What kind of hack writer thought up that idea? The old boy was just throwing snow balls a few years ago.

Superman: Yes, it's quite the posh, isn't it?

Flash: I say, let's vibrate our molecules to translightspeeds...oh you still have that SpeedForce buff I gave you after you completely mauled that savage with the face of an ox, don't you?

Superman: Oh, yes certainly, yes, yes. Carry on.

Flash: Why, my thank you. I suggest we vibrate our molecules to translightspeed to disrupt our molecular composition to the point where molecules break apart. Which our molecular composition not even considered to be molecular enough to be considered anything like matter at all, he won't be draining us of every drop of water!

Superman: Fine idea, old chap! But what if that doesn't kill him?

Flash: It's bound to get him out of us, anyhoo! He can't survive in a body with no coherent water molecules! Our molecules will be scrambling about at lightspeed! He'd likely die from such a tramatic experience anyhoo.

Superman: And if that doesn't work?

Flash: My god, man! You sound like an Iceman fanboy! If THAT doesn't work, he'll have to find another body of moisture to transfer to like say the air! You use your soulvision and I'll simply dump that little uppity bastard in the Speed Force or the Anti-Matter universe. Whatever floats my fancy.

Superman: Well that sounds just swell! What time is it, by the way?

Flash: Eh, I measure between .0003 and .0004.

Superman: Ah, thank you good sir. Let's get this show on the road shall we?

Flash: Yes, let's. This poor bastard. He really doesn't know what's going to hit him.

What people need to get: SPEED, SPEED, SPEED. ANY attack that Iceman somehow manages to get on Superman or Flash will be recognized, analyzed, countered, and debuffed in the pectosecond after Iceman even begins to launch the attack on the duo.

Iceman is screwed. He simply doesn't have the reactions nor speed necessary not to mention the ABILITY to kill Speedforced amped Superman or the Flash for that matter unless they're incredibly stupid .

On another note, isn't dispersing Iceman's molecules to heavens and the netherworld below from such a lethal attack considered a KO on this forum?

Wolverine is currently immortal. He can grow back from a skeleton. Does that mean he automatically wins every battle since he just won't stay dead?

Iceman nearly DIED when Northstar kaboomed his ass. And he would have if Mystique hadn't given him CPR.

If reducing Wolverine to a skeleton is considered a KO, why not reducing Iceman's body to nothingness and having his consciousness blown across the four winds? [/B]

😂 👆

I'd honestly like to see Draco write some dialogue in an actual comic someday. 😂

Iceman could literally face off against anyone as long as there is water present and they arn't able to mind rape him. The omega level mutants these days are among the common "powerhouse" level. No he may not be a heavy hitter, but his abilities deff put him in the league.

but not nearly close into a league wher superman and flash stand. these are two main forces in the dc universe. iceman doesnt syand a chance. brb doesnt stand a chance agains flash either. bobby would be a statue before even turning into mist. flash has control over his molecular structure. he'd be able to do a numerous amounts of things to bobbies. even while in mist mode, flash would be able to send each and every one of his molecules through the speedforce

It's not just "mist mode" Bobby is essentially organic ice, hence he has a connection to every drop of water on the earths surface, even in peoples bodies. That's why the whole physical attack ordeal is useless, he no longer needs his ice form to survive, so unless Flash or Superman can somehow manage to obliderate every single water molecule, Bobby is still in the fight.

All he would have to do is reside in the water molecules inside Flash's body and enjoy the trip through the speed force.

Im not saying Iceman pushes this battle over there edge, it's damn near a stalemate, just a lot of people are under estimating bobby here.

naw.

flash and supes 100000/10

Unless Flash suddenly has microscopic vison, he's not gonna know what Bobby is doing. 😬