The ultimate source of magic?

does magic ultimately stem from the same energies that created the big bang? if so, HOW is it different from power cosmic, or power primordial, or any of the other obvious 'cosmic' powers?

if it does NOT stem from the same basic source, WHERE does it come from? is there a well of 'mystical' energy somewhere, seperate from the underlying 'cosmic' forces that are the source for all cosmic power?

inquiring minds want to discuss! 😄

Originally posted by leonidas
does magic ultimately stem from the same energies that created the big bang? if so, HOW is it different from power cosmic, or power primordial, or any of the other obvious 'cosmic' powers?

if it does NOT stem from the same basic source, WHERE does it come from? is there a well of 'mystical' energy somewhere, seperate from the underlying 'cosmic' forces that are the source for all cosmic power?

inquiring minds want to discuss! 😄

Because not every wirter is good enough to combine all points so Magic is the answer.

Originally posted by leonidas
does magic ultimately stem from the same energies that created the big bang? if so, HOW is it different from power cosmic, or power primordial, or any of the other obvious 'cosmic' powers?

if it does NOT stem from the same basic source, WHERE does it come from? is there a well of 'mystical' energy somewhere, seperate from the underlying 'cosmic' forces that are the source for all cosmic power?

inquiring minds want to discuss! 😄

In Marvel it's extradimensional as most of the "Gods" strange call upon are in other dimensions. So this means it multiversal. I think in Marvel it must ultimately come from the laws the TOAA set to define the multiverse.

In DC it comes from Gods laws.

In Dr. Whos Universe the Timelords rewrote the Universal constant to remove it!! Side fact.

In Dr. Whos Universe the Timelords rewrote the Universal constant to remove it!!

I hate magic...just too deus ex machina for me.

edit

It comes from THOTU.

All energy comes from THOTU.

Originally posted by Mindship
💃

I hate magic...just too deus ex machina for me.

Mindship, mindship, mindship......

And Power Cosmic isn't?

🙂

This is a good question. But I don't know if there is any real explanation.

Originally posted by By Crom!
In Marvel it's extradimensional as most of the "Gods" strange call upon are in other dimensions. So this means it multiversal. I think in Marvel it must ultimately come from the laws the TOAA set to define the multiverse.

In DC it comes from Gods laws.

In Dr. Whos Universe the Timelords rewrote the Universal constant to remove it!! Side fact.

the entities that strange calls upon are all contained WITHIN eternity -- that is within our "universe." (though a single eternity CAN be seen as a multiverse . . .)

eternity himself stems from the big bang, therefore it stands to reason all things within it stem ultimately from the big bang. 🙂

but, does magic ALSO stem from there, or does it come from an outside source? you could be right in saying it stems from toaa -- perhaps he gave us a set amount of magical energy to use within the megaverse of marvel? or perhaps it IS the same energy source that gives rise to cosmic power and it is just utilized in a different way . . .? 😕

Originally posted by Newjak
Personally I think Magic was basically made to be its own thing seperate from everything else why.................

Because not every wirter is good enough to combine all points so Magic is the answer.

Originally posted by leonidas
the entities that strange calls upon are all contained WITHIN eternity -- that is within our "universe." (though a single eternity CAN be seen as a multiverse . . .)

eternity himself stems from the big bang, therefore it stands to reason all things within it stem ultimately from the big bang. 🙂

but, does magic ALSO stem from there, or does it come from an outside source? you could be right in saying it stems from toaa -- perhaps he gave us a set amount of magical energy to use within the megaverse of marvel? or perhaps it IS the same energy source that gives rise to cosmic power and it is just utilized in a different way . . .? 😕

You say that all the dimensions exist within Eternity Leo, however in Englebert and Brunners Marvel premiere run Strange witnessed the recreation of the Universe (Eternity) outside it and retained his powers whilst doing so.

🙂

Originally posted by By Crom!
Mindship, mindship, mindship......
And Power Cosmic isn't?
🙂

😂
Natch. But I think the difference is in the way they're used.

Power cosmic gives the impression that it follows at least some physical laws. Yes, the Surfer can "magically" transmute matter, but mostly he just blows stuff up. And if he tried to fire a cosmic bolt through a capable forcefield, he may not succeed, depending on what doubletalk physics the writers decide to use.

Magic, on the other hand, would pass right through that physics-based forcefield. It seems to have no limits: whatever the user (writer) needs to get done is done. This is how beings like Strange can go up against beings like Galactus.

It just ain't fair, I tell ya.

Originally posted by By Crom!
You say that all the dimensions exist within Eternity Leo, however in Englebert and Brunners Marvel premiere run Strange witnessed the recreation of the Universe (Eternity) outside it and retained his powers whilst doing so.

🙂

He didn't really retain his powers- didn't Genesis absorb nearly all of them at that point? Genesis took all of the magic from the universe and used it to start the big bang again... so I guess if you count that as the start of the Marvel Universe, then the power cosmic, power primordial is actually just magic...

I honestly think that's my favorite arc ever.

Originally posted by tjcoady
He didn't really retain his powers- didn't Genesis absorb nearly all of them at that point? Genesis took all of the magic from the universe and used it to start the big bang again... so I guess if you count that as the start of the Marvel Universe, then the power cosmic, power primordial is actually just magic...

I honestly think that's my favorite arc ever. [/B]

Ahh, but Genesis didn't absorb all of them, the fact Genesis was able to use magic from the Universe outside it also begets the point. 🙂 Yes a fantastic arc tj. Oh, sidenote for Leo 🙂 Phoenix was not invented at this point in Marvel history and was not present for the big bang. 🙂 I'd forgotten this, yet another Marvel "creation" event, kind of scuppers both GS and MM ho hum. PC, PP could well be variations on the wellspring of power, be it TOAA or the HOTU whatever. It could just be another writers ideas of course 😖hifty:

Originally posted by Mindship
😂
Natch. But I think the difference is in the way they're used.

Power cosmic gives the impression that it follows at least some physical laws. Yes, the Surfer can "magically" transmute matter, but mostly he just blows stuff up. And if he tried to fire a cosmic bolt through a capable forcefield, he may not succeed, depending on what doubletalk physics the writers decide to use.

Magic, on the other hand, would pass right through that physics-based forcefield. It seems to have no limits: whatever the user (writer) needs to get done is done. This is how beings like Strange can go up against beings like Galactus.

It just ain't fair, I tell ya.

Mindship, Mindship, Mindship 🙂

The Silver Surfer Brought Quasimodo to life in FF annual 5. He made a static computer into a living being. Power Cosmic = Magic.

🙂

Originally posted by By Crom!
You say that all the dimensions exist within Eternity Leo, however in Englebert and Brunners Marvel premiere run Strange witnessed the recreation of the Universe (Eternity) outside it and retained his powers whilst doing so.

🙂

nah, i didn't say ALL dimensions exist within eternity. there is a whole multiverse OUTSIDE eternity. i simply said the entities strange calls on ARE within eternity. strange has acknowledged a couple times that eternity is well above those he usually calls upon. 🙂

that arc you're talking about sounds cool. what issues if premiere? what year?

anyway, it would seem (if he DID retain his powers) that perhaps magic DOES extend beyond eternity and is a multiversal phenomenon. that would basically put magic ABOVE cosmic power. or at least SEEM to . . .

Originally posted by leonidas
nah, i didn't say ALL dimensions exist within eternity. there is a whole multiverse OUTSIDE eternity. i simply said the entities strange calls on ARE within eternity. strange has acknowledged a couple times that eternity is well above those he usually calls upon. 🙂

that arc you're talking about sounds cool. what issues if premiere? what year?

anyway, it would seem (if he DID retain his powers) that perhaps magic DOES extend beyond eternity and is a multiversal phenomenon. that would basically put magic ABOVE cosmic power. or at least SEEM to . . .

Well as i'm only 19 😖hifty: I can't be sure............ 1974............... I think 😖hifty:

Here is Strange facing a Conan foe from the same arc, the "God" is an "Old One" called Shuma Gorath.

Conan fights Dr Strange foes without magic 😉

you're pretty knowledgeable for a 19 year old! damn . . . 😗

Well, then...how would all these powers relate to one another:
Phoenix Force, Power Cosmic and pinch Magic?

All born of the the same thing (big bang), but all mutated or evolved into different forms of energy?